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The way forward for LC2021

History Queen

I'm interested in the views of other teachers as to what should happen to assess the work of LC2021 students. With growing calls for cancellation of the exams and predicted grades, I fear we are sleep walking in to a repeat of last year's debacle.

My personal view is the exams should go ahead as scheduled but perhaps a further review of papers to allow for more choice should happen, suggestions submitted from subject associations maybe?

As regards projects/orals/practicals I can only speak to my own subjects. In History I feel the project should go ahead as planned.

What do others think?

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solerina

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Anyone else struggling to find teacher to sit on the panel in order to judge the grades given by tutors for out of school subjects?

We cant find a registered Hungarian teacher to sit on the panel and verify the grades given by the students unregistered tutor. The SEC are telling me they must be registered.

I would like to know how these external grades are being standardised. We have a student doing a subject outside school who struggles to get 50% in OL subjects in school yet has been awarded a H1 for a subject he studies outside school

FileNotFound

RealJohn wrote: »

There was an assessment for non-curricular languages last Saturday for accredited grades. I know someone marking one of them (but not Hungarian).
My friend knows the person who’s marking the Hungarian though (as they know several of the people involved). There was only one of the non-curricular languages that had no applicants, apparently, and it wasn’t Hungarian.

Why those Hungarian students didn’t do that assessment, I don’t know, but it sounds like they should have.

This sounds as dodge as can be. Easy A I suppose.

RealJohn

There was an assessment for non-curricular languages last Saturday for accredited grades. I know someone marking one of them (but not Hungarian).
My friend knows the person who’s marking the Hungarian though (as they know several of the people involved). There was only one of the non-curricular languages that had no applicants, apparently, and it wasn’t Hungarian.

Why those Hungarian students didn’t do that assessment, I don’t know, but it sounds like they should have.

FileNotFound

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ah here. Given that Hungarian is a non curricular language, how likely is it that there are any Hungarian teachers registered with the teaching council.

I’d suggest ringing the Hungarian embassy in Dublin (assuming there is one) and seeing if they can put you in touch with someone

Didn't know you can get graded on non cirricula subjects...

So you can just make up your own?

rainbowtrout

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Anyone else struggling to find teacher to sit on the panel in order to judge the grades given by tutors for out of school subjects?

We cant find a registered Hungarian teacher to sit on the panel and verify the grades given by the students unregistered tutor. The SEC are telling me they must be registered.

Ah here. Given that Hungarian is a non curricular language, how likely is it that there are any Hungarian teachers registered with the teaching council.

I’d suggest ringing the Hungarian embassy in Dublin (assuming there is one) and seeing if they can put you in touch with someone

Leftwaffe

Anyone else struggling to find teacher to sit on the panel in order to judge the grades given by tutors for out of school subjects?

We cant find a registered Hungarian teacher to sit on the panel and verify the grades given by the students unregistered tutor. The SEC are telling me they must be registered.

Choochtown

Bobtheman wrote: »

If I give a student 80 and he gets 64 in the exam - will the department then drag my accredited grade down??
At what stage is the accredited grade finalised??

Of course not. The Department never ever go back on their word and when we were assured by them in an official statement last year that students will not get access to their class order of rankings they stuck firmly to their word. Also the grade process will be totally transparent (just like last year) as which result has been used (the exam grade or assessed grade) will be clearly indicated and ...

... er actually maybe they will

Alex86Eire

I was on the late list and got an appointment email last Wednesday.

rainbowtrout

Just had a look at the email I got last week and the cut off for acceptance was last Thursday so I'd imagine anyone who is on the late list would get an offer this week.

Bobtheman

I was on late list.

rainbowtrout

Bobtheman wrote: »

Anybody heard back on their Lc supervision yet? I applied for the extra cohort.

Just that I got it, but no other detail.

Bobtheman

Anybody heard back on their Lc supervision yet? I applied for the extra cohort.

rainbowtrout

Leftwaffe wrote: »

The majority of teachers where I am are taking it that they won’t be in for the last week. The accredited grades process really shouldn’t take that long for teachers and the Subject alignment meeting could be held outside tuition time. They hardly expect people to come the first week of June?

Same as. The monthly assessments are done. It shouldn't take two weeks to decide on a grade for a student.

Leftwaffe

Random sample wrote: »

It was in the accredited grades document that they all have to be done by the 28th so that we could focus on the accredited grades in the last week.

The majority of teachers where I am are taking it that they won’t be in for the last week. The accredited grades process really shouldn’t take that long for teachers and the Subject alignment meeting could be held outside tuition time. They hardly expect people to come the first week of June?

Random sample

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Surely it’s up to the staff to say to the principal to push out the submission date for grades for house exams.

It was in the accredited grades document that they all have to be done by the 28th so that we could focus on the accredited grades in the last week.

rainbowtrout

Random sample wrote: »

But I have 6 other sets of tests, and 8 other sets of reports that have to be in by the 28th when my last exam is on the 26th.

Surely it’s up to the staff to say to the principal to push out the submission date for grades for house exams.

Random sample

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But yesterday was the last day assessments could be given to students to count for their accredited grade. You have two weeks to finalise the grades.

But I have 6 other sets of tests, and 8 other sets of reports that have to be in by the 28th when my last exam is on the 26th.

Leftwaffe

Random sample wrote: »

Does that mean we have to have the alignment meetings on the Monday?

I don’t understand why we have to rush all other marking and reports for the 28th if we have to have accredited grades done so early in the last week.

I take it as the subject alignment process will be all but done by the 28th. Perhaps a meeting early the following week for departments to tie up any loose ends/box ticking exercise and then away ya go for the summer. Aide submits them by Thursday the 3rd then.

rainbowtrout

Random sample wrote: »

Does that mean we have to have the alignment meetings on the Monday?

I don’t understand why we have to rush all other marking and reports for the 28th if we have to have accredited grades done so early in the last week.

But yesterday was the last day assessments could be given to students to count for their accredited grade. You have two weeks to finalise the grades.

Random sample

Leftwaffe wrote: »

So, accredited grades have to be submitted by the teachers by 31st of May and then inputted into the system by June 3rd? Is that correct?

Does that mean we have to have the alignment meetings on the Monday?

I don’t understand why we have to rush all other marking and reports for the 28th if we have to have accredited grades done so early in the last week.

Leftwaffe

So, accredited grades have to be submitted by the teachers by 31st of May and then inputted into the system by June 3rd? Is that correct?

Treppen

Bobtheman wrote: »

If I give a student 80 and he gets 64 in the exam - will the department then drag my accredited grade down??
At what stage is the accredited grade finalised??

We asked the Union if they would use one grade to moderate another, they said they were given assurances by the department that "there will be no relationship between Leaving Certificate performance and accredited grades in terms of the results achieved in one or other."

For some reason I still wouldn't trust the department.

Bobtheman

RealJohn wrote: »

You would hope they wouldn’t do it on student by student basis but it would make sense to look at students’ exam performance versus their teachers’ invented grades and adjust the overall invented grades accordingly.

If you’ve only got one student wrong, that student might have had a bad day at the exam, and shouldn’t affect how your grading is viewed, overall. If all of your students go down 10-15% in the exam (or do so on average), then your invented grades should be adjusted accordingly, but for that, they might also have to look at everyone else’s invented grades too, because if that was a national trend, you could say that it was some sort of Covid related effect, and that the invented grades might be an accurate reflection of what they would have got, but for the disruption to their education for the last year.

Who knows though? They’ll be adjusted to fit what they want them to look like anyway.

Thanks for that and very insightful. Lots of rationality in it but I'm not sure if rationality is part of the process.
They should have had the accredited grades as a back up no more. They just gave into the media.
We have **** child mental health services and practically any other child service you name but the LC is somehow put on a higher pedestal because it strikes at the heart of the middle classes

RealJohn

Bobtheman wrote: »

If I give a student 80 and he gets 64 in the exam - will the department then drag my accredited grade down??
At what stage is the accredited grade finalised??

You would hope they wouldn’t do it on student by student basis but it would make sense to look at students’ exam performance versus their teachers’ invented grades and adjust the overall invented grades accordingly.

If you’ve only got one student wrong, that student might have had a bad day at the exam, and shouldn’t affect how your grading is viewed, overall. If all of your students go down 10-15% in the exam (or do so on average), then your invented grades should be adjusted accordingly, but for that, they might also have to look at everyone else’s invented grades too, because if that was a national trend, you could say that it was some sort of Covid related effect, and that the invented grades might be an accurate reflection of what they would have got, but for the disruption to their education for the last year.

Who knows though? They’ll be adjusted to fit what they want them to look like anyway.

Bobtheman

If I give a student 80 and he gets 64 in the exam - will the department then drag my accredited grade down??
At what stage is the accredited grade finalised??

Leftwaffe

Random sample wrote: »

Interviewers have all been paid in my school. No idea about the aide, but she’s doing lcvp too, so I don’t know if she’ll get all in one go.

Your school has obviously paid out their own pocket then? It’s a bit all over the place re pay. A lot of interviewers not happy as far as I can see.

As an aside, how can I determine how many centres I will need for the leaving cert exams? Or will the department provide guidance on that? I’ve not done exam secretary before. All help appreciated.

pandoraj09

Someone posted on the Voice for teachers page that the DES replied to her email re payment for interviewers and aides and stated that no payments would be made until the LC was over. I do know of some schools that have paid teachers already though. Its a joke. I did the Irish interviews on March 27th and won't be paid until July or more likely August.

Random sample

Leftwaffe wrote: »

At risk of being annoying but interviewers and the aide haven’t been paid yet for the orals in our school. Has there been definitive payment documents released for this?

I called and was told last Tuesday that they’d be out by Wednesday or Thursday

Interviewers have all been paid in my school. No idea about the aide, but she’s doing lcvp too, so I don’t know if she’ll get all in one go.

Random sample

Treppen wrote: »

Do you know the timeline as to when the adjustment of accredited grades by the SEC will finish?

No. I don’t even know if they have procured an algorithm yet.

Leftwaffe

DubLad69 wrote: »

Yes, payment forms have been released for both and are on the schools section of examinations.ie

I would suspect that most schools will make the payments for both after all of the exams are completed.

Much appreciated.