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Second Captains Part II

wnolan1992

Pfft, second thread, first thread, whatever.

Old thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056940110

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riewomann

"Journalism is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion and, in that, Second Captains are unbeatable. Put Ken taking a **** after a night of Guinness and Kebabs, and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's a guy taking a ****."

Arghus

Smell the glove wrote: »

Thankfully that didn't happen. Poor Ken is funny to listen to but he's way out of his depth when it comes to current affairs etc. He tries though all the same.

Have you heard the standard of current affairs coverage in Ireland: it isn't all that high. I don't see how Ken is any worse tbh and he's better than a lot of them.

redbuck

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

It meant no Michael Duignan so that's a big plus imo

Jamie Wall is very good though.

Smell the glove

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

The last two episodes are a snap shot of what could have been if second captains were allowed to get their mouths around the coveted drive time slot on Newstalk.

Thankfully that didn't happen. Poor Ken is funny to listen to but he's way out of his depth when it comes to current affairs etc. He tries though all the same.

EltonJohn69

The last two episodes are a snap shot of what could have been if second captains were allowed to get their mouths around the coveted drive time slot on Newstalk.

Brock Turnpike

redbuck wrote: »

Disappointed we didn't get some hurling talk this week.

It meant no Michael Duignan so that's a big plus imo

Dick Turnip

Smell the glove wrote: »

Some snorefest this week. An episode on a tourist attraction for Dublin and an episode on the housing crisis. Jesus in the week that city won the league, the fa cup final is on, the continental leagues are all going the distance, the hurling came back. Mind boggles sometimes.

It was a bit surprising to have the rafting episode followed by the housing crisis one. You'd think either of those could have been put on next week.

City winning the league though, what's more to say on that really, that was won in March not on Tuesday. I'd be bored by an episode given over to that to be fair.

The Spanish league run in is pretty fascinating though, I really hope they discuss it today.

redbuck

Disappointed we didn't get some hurling talk this week.

kwestfan08

Smell the glove wrote: »

Some snorefest this week. An episode on a tourist attraction for Dublin and an episode on the housing crisis. Jesus in the week that city won the league, the fa cup final is on, the continental leagues are all going the distance, the hurling came back. Mind boggles sometimes.

Another football show tomorrow so I’m sure all will be covered in that. City have had the league won for weeks though in fairness.

Smell the glove

Some snorefest this week. An episode on a tourist attraction for Dublin and an episode on the housing crisis. Jesus in the week that city won the league, the fa cup final is on, the continental leagues are all going the distance, the hurling came back. Mind boggles sometimes.

Raoul Duke

Pete Moss wrote: »

Do you mean something like the idea Ken came up? An arguably better plan for the space, which sounded more cost efficient and profitable in the form of his outdoor swimming idea. He even had a relevant comparison to similar facilities being a success within the city of London, as opposed to Keegan talking about the Cardiff facility which is not located anywhere near their city centre.

It's almost like Ken came up with the idea and counter argument of a potentially better plan on the spot. Imagine what he could come up with when given, let's say, â‚¬1.3m of public money to help get the creative juices flowing.

Yes that is an alternative. From memory Keegan had an answer to that option - there is a swimming pool as part of this plan.
I don't know that much about this current plan apart from the what was talked about on the pod. But, if the site is big enough (my big question mark about it) then being in the city centre has pros as well as the obvious cons (parking). I think that it would be popular with the stag party brigade. It would be popular with the office party / team building circuit. It would be popular with tourists. If Keegan's vision of it being a worthwhile training area for water rescue is accurate, then that isn't something that should be easy to dismiss. It might even attract training crews from abroad. All good for Dublin.
€8 million of the Council's money isn't that much really. I don't know if it's a good idea, but I do think that it is good that someone is trying to put things into the city that adds to it.

Say Your Number

Don't think I've seen anything they've done get this big a reaction, a lot of comments on the Patreon page and the tweet they put out as well.

Pete Moss

Raoul Duke wrote:

If you can come up with a better plan for the area at the same time, please let us know.

Do you mean something like the idea Ken came up? An arguably better plan for the space, which sounded more cost efficient and profitable in the form of his outdoor swimming idea. He even had a relevant comparison to similar facilities being a success within the city of London, as opposed to Keegan talking about the Cardiff facility which is not located anywhere near their city centre.

It's almost like Ken came up with the idea and counter argument of a potentially better plan on the spot. Imagine what he could come up with when given, let's say, â‚¬1.3m of public money to help get the creative juices flowing.

Raoul Duke

Just listened to it and I don't think that it was close to the car crash that the comments here led me to believe.

Sure, he didn't have an instant recall of all the facts and figures. So what. It doesn't change his argument for the development. I thought the lads started to go after him, but Eoin pulled back well from going too far down that route.

I just don't understand this infatuation with what the "locals" think about it. It's in the city centre - it's for everyone. Honestly, who cares if the local youth come or not. If they are given discounts, then you can't do more than that.

If you are against the idea, it's enough to say that you don't think it's a good idea. You don't need to bring in the pandemic, housing crisis, local support etc. If you can come up with a better plan for the area at the same time, please let us know.

thenightman

For the cheerleader of the project who wants 8mil+ of public funding (plus the million already spent on planning/consultations) to cheerfully and openly admit they haven't bothered their arse even asking the local youth (who he himself brought up as factor for building it!) is incredible and indefensible. If I said similar about a inconsequential proposal at a meeting in my boring job I'd be laughed out of it, but this clown can say it in an interview and people defend it?

riewomann

SheepsClothing wrote: »

I don't really understand Eoin's point about local kids not being asked if they were interested in going white water rafting. Of course they want to go white water rafting, they're kids. Or does he think kids from Sheriff Street are not high minded enough to enjoy a day out rafting?

If you were to believe the right-on crew, the locals would only be interested in a North Face Outlet Store.

There has been a pile on to mock this proposal from the outset, I haven't heard much in the way of proposals from those who are so horrified at the lack of engagement with the locals.

Maybe a Leinster Rugby Museum would be appropriate? I can just see it now, Shane Horgan and BOD cutting the red ribbon, surrounded by the locals they so proudly represent.

P.S. Engagement, community, stakeholders, line of scrimmage.

Dante

lawred2 wrote: »

So while there's a shortage of houses the state can't spend money on anything else?

Not saying I think this particularly is a good use of money but I don't quite see why a housing shortage is repeatedly referenced.

I believe thats called the fallacy of relative privation.

SheepsClothing

I don't really understand Eoin's point about local kids not being asked if they were interested in going white water rafting. Of course they want to go white water rafting, they're kids. Or does he think kids from Sheriff Street are not high minded enough to enjoy a day out rafting?

Dick Turnip

sheroman01 wrote: »

Having the rafting in the city centre is just ludicrous and a huge slap in the face for people who are crying out more housing in the city. Is the available space for it not gong to be tiny also? If you truly want white water rafting, why not move it somewhere else and make the most of it.

Ah boll1x to this excuse - what, DCC should infill the dock and build social housing instead?

Much like issues with the HSE, the housing & homeless issue is not caused by a lack of money alone. Far from it.

Every time any money is spent on ANYTHING in this country, and particularly Dublin, the same old shyte about housing & homelessness are brought up.

Obviously housing & homelessness are major issues that should be #1 priority for both DCC and the govt. but it is possible to spend money on a number of things without devaluing the importance of the other.

edit - and now I see that today's episode is about housing crisis :pac:

lawred2

So while there's a shortage of houses the state can't spend money on anything else?

Not saying I think this particularly is a good use of money but I don't quite see why a housing shortage is repeatedly referenced.

Could never sort a housing shortage.. other stuff still has to get done

sheroman01

Having the rafting in the city centre is just ludicrous and a huge slap in the face for people who are crying out more housing in the city. Is the available space for it not gong to be tiny also? If you truly want white water rafting, why not move it somewhere else and make the most of it.

It's just so incredibly niche. Will locals really go? If they do, it'll likely only be a once-off. It's not a long term investment for locals. Tourists may like it, but it only continues our obsession with tourism. It's getting out of hand, without any consideration for locals. Pubs, clubs, sport centers, etc, all being abandoned or knocked down in favour of hotels and tourists. Tourists already love Ireland, they will continue to flock here. There are ways to improve and sustain areas for tourism and improve the standard of life for locals.

What was baffling about Keegan was how blasé he was. He was there to defend it but was all like "sure look it's up for tender but hopefully we get it". It's almost as if he's starting to realise maybe it's not the best thing that Dublin City needs.

humberklog

I enjoyed yesterday's chat, something different.

I don't think the lads were waiting to get the boot in. They spelt it out from the start- if you're gonna go big you'd better be able to defend that choice.

And Keegan failed. Badly.

But I think it's a great idea! The lads were off the mark when they were dismissive of people taking up kayaking around the Liffey. It's already being done and to great success.

I work with tourists and so many of them have done the Liffey Kayaking as has loads of locals and it has been great for school tours too. They even have acoustic concerts under the bridge on occasion. Ok, that's leisurely kayaking and not rapids but it's still in a boat with a paddle. You have to start somewhere.

With accessible and affordable sports shops now stocking kayaks and SUP's off the shelf (I bought one myself recently) there has been a huge up take in interest in water activities across the city. You can get this stuff for the price of a high end phone.
The idea put forward that it's for rich people is simply not the case. It certainly was, even if that was just in perception but there's all sorts getting into it now and it's a really healthy and fun activity.

Those pro it and are invested in delivering it need to go much more "Balls Out" with their proposal. And stuff Keegan in a drawer somewhere.

Lucas Hood

He never gave any reason why it would work here given it worked in Cardiff.
Doesn't seem to have been any consultation with locals it they're interested in it.

Dick Turnip

There may be truth to Keegan's point, that a lido would require a big investment also, but not have the same year round usage as kayaking, and also not generate the same € either, but christ did he not speak well.

I kinda like the idea of a kayak centre there to be honest, it would certainly be something different. However, it is so easy to tear it and Keegan apart on it. You come with a proposal like that, at least know your sh1t about it. He was brutal.

Something like that should be put at Abbotstown on a green field site when everything's weighed up.

Still, would love to know what people think should go in George's Dock. It would be nice if they even just filled it with water - that would be a start!

Hotblack Desiato

Had dealings with Keegan years ago, let's just say I don't have a very high opinion of the man but he's been consistent in always being able to fail upwards. You know the type.

dulpit

I listened to this a short while ago. What I got from it was that Dublin needs it because Cardiff has one? It also sounds like it's a personal opinion that it will work out for Dublin, no public consultation looks to have happened.

deisedude

Lucas Hood wrote: »

"Right" "You know"

Man kept saying these all the time.

Never a good sign of a speaker. Crutch words you revert to when you are well and truly rattled

Lucas Hood

"Right" "You know"

Man kept saying these all the time.

PhilipsR

bamayang wrote: »

Keegan isn’t a good speaker and his ummhs and ahhs at the start of each question didn’t help him. But I didn’t really think of that as car crash stuff.

He knew he was coming on to speak about this project specifically and he didn't even know of the projected cost or of how much they plan on charging for it! It was an absolute car crash and I don't hold any respect for the DCC if someone like this guys is at the top. It was horrendously unprofessional.

Pete Moss

Beau wrote: »

On the other hand, you could sense Eoin and Ken were out for blood from the get go and weren't open to hearing the arguments for it.

I disagree. To say they were "out for blood" is a bit much, it was hardly like Vincent Browne was going through him for a shortcut.

They researched the topic and asked relevant questions, even at that there was nothing too probing and nothing that hadn't been previously questioned about the project. Keegan continuously talked about it benefitting the local community and Eoin was right to ask what he was basing that on. Don't forget, DCC have already spent €1.3m on fees for this project so far. For that money, I would expect him to have access to some information collected from the local community or councillors which backed-up his claims. Surely there has been some consultation with them?

The perception and attitude towards this project has been negative from the start, even more so as a result of the pandemic. It was an opportunity to be prepared for this line of questioning and come across confident and knowledgeable on a project which will cost €25m+. He made an arse of it, scrambling through papers and not knowing basic details, spouting nonsense about Dalymount Park and the money that will cost - without mentioning any money that might come the way of DCC from Tolka Park being sold.

It was less a case of they were out for blood and more of a case that Keegan spontaneously combusted in front of them, leaving them dripping in it.