BonnieSituation wrote: You do realise that the EU is a group of humans essentially with human thoughts and emotions? How could you possibly counter that there wouldn't be some schadenfreude at the break up of the UK on foot of Brexit? It would be impossible not to laugh at it.
First Up wrote: » At an individual level, of course. At an institutional and political level, its just a headache.
BonnieSituation wrote: » Why is it always forgotten that this fabled "stability" that Britain supposedly has has included in the 20th century alone: - Two civil wars and multiple wars and insurrections - Part of its territory leaving - A peace accord with another nation to guarantee equality for its citizens because it failed to do so itself - State forces murdering its own citizens And so on... Or is it because it was Ireland that doesn't count as being "theirs" problem. How many violent and fatal riots as well? Official UK likes to portray itself and some sort of beacon of stability. Anyone with a lick of sense knows it's anything but. Too right Scotland wants to leave.
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: » The fact that it's still a union makes it far more stable than if Scotland were to leave.
A Dub in Glasgo wrote: » In what way is the UK a union?
2. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN When the union of two or more things occurs, they are joined together and become one thing.
correct horse battery staple wrote: » Would it not be opposite without Scotland Tories would have an unassailable majority and you endup with a de facto one party authoritarian state, Beijing on Thames
Aegir wrote: » That’s a complete red herring though, based on your own views.You may as well say that Ireland likes to portray itself as a bastion of civil rights and equality when in reality, it’s mired with political corruption, child abuse and financial incompetence, no wonder Cork wants independence. The reality is, Scotland is very much front and centre of official UK, just as Cork is very much part of official Ireland. You can try and paint this as a poor Celtic nation being subjugated by the big bad Saxon foe as much as you like, but that really is not reality.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » A rather bitter comment about Ireland.
Aegir wrote: » an exaggeration used for the purposes of example.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Well, relatively speaking, "in reality" modern Ireland is not "mired" in the things you say. And I would consider modern Ireland to have enough civil rights and to be a relatively equal society.
Aegir wrote: » I guess that is open to a different discussion and not really relevant to this thread. Bonnie was referring to something that happened fifty years ago and relating it to Scotland wishing to leave the UK as if it is relevant today, or at least relevant to Scottish independence, which of course it is not.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Fair enough, I hadn't read that discussion.
Aegir wrote: » it is a union of countrieshttps://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/union
A Dub in Glasgo wrote: » I asked in what way? pointing to a dictionary does not cut it. Is it a voluntary union? Where is the equivalent of an Article 50?
Aegir wrote: » That’s a complete red herring though, based on your own views. You may as well say that Ireland likes to portray itself as a bastion of civil rights and equality when in reality, it’s mired with political corruption, child abuse and financial incompetence, no wonder Cork wants independence. The reality is, Scotland is very much front and centre of official UK, just as Cork is very much part of official Ireland. You can try and paint this as a poor Celtic nation being subjugated by the big bad Saxon foe as much as you like, but that really is not reality.
listermint wrote: » Just for full clarity here. Cork doesn't want independence. It's a country it's an on going 'In' joke . I'm really hoping you were trying to make some joke there (it's actually not very clear tbh) otherwise you've shown a gaping hole in your understanding of Ireland.
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: » Seriously What's with the pedantry ? Scotland is in a political union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland. That's pretty widely established. Stop splitting hairs about terminology and make a worthwhile contribution.
A Dub in Glasgo wrote: » It is not splitting hairs at all, the people in Scotland have been told since 2014 that the UK is a precious union. I am aking in what way is it a union, never mind a precious union Is it a voluntary union? If it is not a voluntary union, at least be honest with people
Aegir wrote: » Of course i was not serious, I was using it as an example.
Aegir wrote: » It is a union that the Scots voluntarily entered in to.
A Dub in Glasgo wrote: » That is simply not true, the people in Scotland were not even consulted. Anyhow, are you are stating that an event that happened over 300 years ago cannot be reversed if the people want it reversed?
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: » Scotland has been part of a union for centuries with very little difference between them and the rest of the union, same language, religion etc etc. From an outsider it's difficult to see why they want independence in the first place.
pixelburp wrote: » I'm not sure I'd classify the joining of kingdoms for monarchic convenience as a voluntary move by "Scots". Or indeed anyone else on the island. Besides, and here the historical experts can correct me, James I was King of Scotland first and foremost so really Edinburgh should be centre of the Union, not London - if we're taking centuries old precedence as the driver here. Scottish self determination should only be considered as old as the modern democratic institutions that dictate the current iteration of the UK, anything less is just silly. So to that end, if we take 79 as the starting point, it's already a 40+ year project. Within a union where enfranchisement itself is barely 100+ years old (I can't recall when women got the vote, though IIRC that act technically included all men over 18, as opposed to only college grads).
BonnieSituation wrote: » 1918
Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who is also the MSP for the area, said she disagreed fundamentally with Home Office immigration policy. She said: "This action was unacceptable. To act in this way, in the heart of a Muslim community as they celebrated Eid, and in an area experiencing a Covid outbreak was a health and safety risk." She said she would be "demanding assurances" from the UK government that they would not create such a dangerous situation again. She added: "No assurances were given - and frankly no empathy shown - when I managed to speak to a junior minister earlier." Humza Yousaf, the Scottish government's justice secretary, said: "the action they [the Home Office] have today is at best completely reckless, and at worst intended to provoke, on a day the UK government would have known the Scottish government and MSPs would be distracted by parliamentary process." He added that the situation "should never have occurred", and that "the UK government's hostile environment is not welcome here." BBC Scotland has asked the Home Office to comment.
pixelburp wrote: » I'm not sure I'd classify the joining of kingdoms for monarchic convenience as a voluntary move by "Scots". Or indeed anyone else on the island. Besides, and here the historical experts can correct me, James I was King of Scotland first and foremost so really Edinburgh should be centre of the Union, not London - if we're taking centuries old precedence as the driver here.
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: » Significant event in Glasgow today as protestors managed to get a UK immigration van to release two men that had earlier been detained.https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1392887669684949000https://twitter.com/ReidEileen1/status/1392883317188481026 Watching images like this adds to the sense that these are countries with very different outlooks moving in very different directions. This was the Scottish government's take, as reported by the BBC:
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