xper wrote: » For those who aren't inclined to read the full documentation, here's what the report has to say about the proposed new stations: They're simply out of scope of this particular project and this project will do nothing to hamper progressing them as separate projects, in parallel or otherwise under the Dart+ umbrella or even later.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » Page 24 of the Public Consultation Brochure (on the table in the middle of the room) states; With all that work done, what would be the additional things needed for a station? The plaforms themselves (could potentially be one island platform instead of two platforms to save costs), ramps down from the new bridge (with supports and connections designed into the bridge structure), some railings and gates, couple of TVMs and info screens, some lighting, etc. Shouldn't need a footbridge as the road bridge fulfills that duty and ramps remove the need for lifts. Can't see how it would cost several million when already doing large civil and electrical works in that exact location. Same mostly goes for Cabra too.
Peregrine wrote: » €16.5m for Cabra. €6.3m or €8.5m for Kylemore depending on which consultant you ask. Putting in provision for stations now may involve spending some of those costs now. The total cost of DART+ South West is €450m (minus fleet). Basically peanuts.
spacetweek wrote: » I had a look at Google Maps. Part of the reason for not going ahead with Kylemore/Cabra may be that both future station locations are only 15 mins walk from Luas. I'm well aware of capacity issues on Luas, and the fact that areas further away are effectively out of walking distance, but it probably doesn't help the business case for adding the stations now. Personally I would go ahead with the stations anyway, but that's just me. Was up in Ashtown over the weekend, my friends live across the road from Pelletstown, which is flying along. Due to open in September I believe.
FrankN1 wrote: » Isn't this line meant to be completed to Maynooth by 2024?
CatInABox wrote: » In the grand scheme of the project, how much extra would the stations add on? Will they do enabling works so that putting in the stations in the future isn't as disruptive? Can they add the stations in future without disrupting services? Those are questions that I'd need answered before I'd accept their excuse that stations aren't part of this project
BonnieSituation wrote: » The 79/a could take you to Wolfe Tone Quay in that time.
bk wrote: » Which kind of shows why it might not make sense to build a station here yet, at least until DART Underground comes along. The 79/a will already get you into town from there pretty fast with no changes. A DART station there wouldn't be any faster either and likely quiet a bit slower. DART from there into Heuston, then the long walk out to change onto the Luas (if you can get on it, already well overcrowded by Heuston). I can't see it being a particularly popular option. Of course with DU, that would all change and would be well worth it then.
spacetweek wrote: » I had a look at Google Maps. Part of the reason for not going ahead with Kylemore/Cabra may be that both future station locations are only 15 mins walk from Luas.
IE 222 wrote: » Is the Klymore figure after the prep work been done in the us project? Seen as Oranmore is been allocated €12 million for a new loop and second platform €7 million for a complete 4 platform Dart station in Dublin is literally peanuts.
bk wrote: » I get what you are both are saying. However how many people are making those journeys? Enough to justify the cost of an extra station? Enough to justify the extra time you add to journeys for an extra stop? Do those people have alternatives like buses, etc. for those journeys? The reality is the vast majority of people are heading into town, if you take those out, then a business case would look much weaker. One thing you need to be careful of is trying to squeeze in too many stations. You risk becoming like Dublin Bus then with too frequent stops and too slow a service. I think we need to ask the question, what is DART+ supposed to be? A frequent stopping service or more a mid distance commuter service? Commuter services tend to have quiet a different stopping pattern to something like a Luas/Bus or even a Metro. Having said that, with DU I think the cost of an extra stop would certainly be worth it, without, I can see it being somewhat marginal.
IE 222 wrote: » The plans show station platforms will run under the bridge. An island won't work due to bridge design and the proximity of Inchicore. It will be a 4 platform station. The bridge is also designed to be widened for future Luas line which I'd suspect is where a station entrance/building would be located.
BonnieSituation wrote: » That's "An Lár-ism" of the highest order. Kylemore opens and all of a sudden commuting to Naas is viable from Ballyfermot etc. It's not all about the city. Opening stations is never a bad idea especially one that is in such a prime spot.
Peregrine wrote: » Kylemore Road was absolutely part of the project until recently. If it's not in the scope of the project now then that means it was removed from the scope of the project when or after design started. It was proposed as a station in the 2018 report which established the emerging preferred route for the Hazelhatch-Heuston section. It was costed in that report and again in the 2018 DART Expansion options report. It was specifically mentioned in the 2019 tender for the consultants who are now designing DART+ South West. Yes, it says "may" but it was important enough to name check and it means someone later decided that it should be dropped. I'm not entirely sure because they were both from cost breakdowns of the entire DART+ South West project where Kylemore Road was part of the project before this "not in the scope of the project" stuff started. So it's difficult to separate them. One of the biggest costs for Kylemore Road is the gradient. The tracks are on a slope and will have to be stabilised for the length of the station. If they're building in provision for a future station, it's likely that they will do this part now. Otherwise, it's not really provision for a future station if you have to lower the tracks later.
Pete_Cavan wrote: » Which document shows platforms will run under the bridge? The Consultation Brochure shows a section through the bridge with the central tracks very close to the intermediate bridge support. Lots of space outside the outer tracks so certainly doesn't look like platforms will run under the bridge. The documents also state "a potential future railway station to the west of the bridge", so to one side rather than under.
IE 222 wrote: » I can't seem to link it but it's well and truly detailed and explained in the Annex 3.5 technical klymore area. Page 41 shows diagram of platforms ect and then there is also details regarding this and how the station will be built.
MyLove4Satan wrote: » The Ballyfemot Station issue is gaining serious traction in the mainstream media and like Cabra (old cement terminal) isn't going to go away.
bk wrote: » While the line is there, the services currently servicing it certainly do not have the capacity to take on 10's of thousands of extra passengers that massive new developments would bring. DART+ is needed to bring the needed capacity and it also tends to increase the attractiveness for both developers and buyers. DART has been extremely successful and DART+ will open up West Dublin in much the same way.
bk wrote: » Maybe this is all a really smart plan by IR to get the government parties, plus SF all riled up about this and then get them to throw extra money at the project to build extra stations In particular if they can get SF to make a big deal on it, that could be very helpful to keep the project going in future if they end up in government.
