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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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This is the official Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread

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TheQ_Man

AMKC wrote: »

Kind of ironic really that Mercedes wanted more expensive and complicated not less complicated engines if it was going to remain in the sport.
I suppose because they already had a head start on them and had already started work on there Power units they knew they would be ahead of all the other teams so they did not really care.

I read somewhere this was part of the reason for their return in 2010. Lauda used this as a selling point to get Hamilton when they realised Schumacher was slow to commit. More expense gives yes, but how much has the dominance earned them in sponsorship, tv time and other endorsements. It sickens me. Team LH44 my hole. I bet those who complained about the Ferrari dominance would prefer that now over this. Ferrari only had 2 good years, 02 & 04.

TheQ_Man

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

That is basically the British media in a nutshell.

Schumacher was only successful because of the car, Hamilton is because be is great.

Give...me...a...break.

When interviewed on Top Gear Schumacher admitted after being asked by Clarkson it was the car. I wonder what would Hamilton say? Probably a laugh while thinking of his PR trained answer

skipper_G

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Well Merc complained so it will be illegal next week!!

Teams protest each other all the time, but Mercedes do it and they're somehow worse than anyone else. How does that work?

I suppose the narrative here is just Mercedes = bad

TheQ_Man

skipper_G wrote: »

Teams protest each other all the time, but Mercedes do it and they're somehow worse than anyone else. How does that work?

I suppose the narrative here is just Mercedes = bad

Well when Mercedes have swept all tithes before them in all bar 1 season since Hamilton joined them it says something. He only had one season with them in the pre turbo hybrid era, it yielded a solitary victory in Hungary. I’d take the Ferrari/Red Bull dominance again at this stage. At least when Rosberg was in the Merc it made it some bit entertaining.

Captain_Crash

skipper_G wrote: »

Teams protest each other all the time, but Mercedes do it and they're somehow worse than anyone else. How does that work?

I suppose the narrative here is just Mercedes = bad

It was said tongue in cheek! I do get the impression that had it been Haas who complained there wouldn’t have been any notice taken... like you said, teams protest all the time!

Frank Bullitt

TheQ_Man wrote: »

When interviewed on Top Gear Schumacher admitted after being asked by Clarkson it was the car. I wonder what would Hamilton say? Probably a laugh while thinking of his PR trained answer

And to give Schumacher his due, he went to Ferrari when they were a total shambles. He made them that powerhouse, and boy did he work hard at that.

Might as well post my favourite Top Gear moment of all time.

barryribs

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

And to give Schumacher his due, he went to Ferrari when they were a total shambles. He made them that powerhouse, and boy did he work hard at that.

Might as well post my favourite Top Gear moment of all time.

One thing I always admired is the fact that he left what was a run away championship winner for a new challenge. Realistically he would have challenged for the championship in 96 and 97 in those Bennetons too. I doubt we'll see the stability that he, Brawn and Todt brought to Ferrari ever again.

Frank Bullitt

barryribs wrote: »

One thing I always admired is the fact that he left what was a run away championship winner for a new challenge. Realistically he would have challenged for the championship in 96 and 97 in those Bennetons too. I doubt we'll see the stability that he, Brawn and Todt brought to Ferrari ever again.

It is something that gets overlooked a lot, his decision to leave a team that could have done more to go to a team to try make them the powerhouse they became. He doesn't get enough credit for that, and it is for that reason I see him as the best of all time. He sought out a real challenge, and excelled.

AMKC

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

And to give Schumacher his due, he went to Ferrari when they were a total shambles. He made them that powerhouse, and boy did he work hard at that.

Might as well post my favourite Top Gear moment of all time.

That was brilliant. Only someone as legendary as Micheal Schmacher could pull that off. Really do we should have known. All the clues were there. The way he walks and sits down. Brilliant scripting. I don't think we will ever get Top Gear that good ever again. I will admit Clarkson is/was an overgrown child but he was also very funny on Top Gear for many season untill it just got utterly stupid.

El_Duderino 09

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

https://streamable.com/6xb9xv

So this is a video of the rear wing flex that Merc complained about in relation to RB. It does move, but they all do under load. It has passed the tests so maybe the FIA will have to change the test in order for it to be illegal.

Jesus there is a lot of flex in the wing alright. Whether it's legal or not is up to the FIA to decide.

If you follow the tip of the shark fin where it ends and watch how the wing moves in relation to it as he speeds up on the straight and then as he brakes into the corner. There is a visible bit of flex alright.

mickdw

Jesus the alpine wing is nuts. Those stepped rear wing end plates are perfect for allowing flex .

MadYaker

Would love to see Lewis move to one of the other big teams on a two year contract. But he's clearly in cruise to retirement mode.

Joeface

someone got really into this and added grid lines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWUefSl5tI

[Deleted User]

Hamilton must be going for world eyesight champion. :pac:

sk8board

It really doesn’t matter if it was Mercedes protested it or someone else, this one is a slam dunk.
They all see the RB wing was flexing, the pit Lane is a very small community and every team has a race team back at HQ monitoring every last thing - merc’s HQ race team is over 60 people

Like the RP brake ducts last year, only one team needs to protest (although Mclaren and Renault both took the lead that time, a s Renault then further appealed it too). ditto for the secret Ferrari trouble the previous season.
A protest from the heritage teams probably carry’s more weight.

sk8board

Loads of online chatter last night from F1 journo’s that they were at a Mclaren event yesterday to preview some ‘huge’ F1 news for this Sunday at 6pm - and it’s under a very strict embargo apparently.
Cant imagine what it would be at this stage in the season, but If it’s some sponsor or indycar announcement, I’ll be very disappointed!

Pen Rua

sk8board wrote: »

Loads of online chatter last night from F1 journo’s that they were at a Mclaren event yesterday to preview some ‘huge’ F1 news for this Sunday at 6pm - and it’s under a very strict embargo apparently.
Cant imagine what it would be at this stage in the season, but If it’s some sponsor or indycar announcement, I’ll be very disappointed!

I've read some of the comments over on r/formula1, and some have made some good points.

Only F1 journalists seem to have been invited - no sportscar journo's or Indycar journo's were invited so it seems unlikely to be a WEC or Indycar announcement.

Buxton on Twitter says the event took place not at the MTC, but at their old building pre-MTC which is now used for the GT division.

https://twitter.com/wbuxtonofficial/status/1392370712611065858

sk8board

Pen Rua wrote: »

I've read some of the comments over on r/formula1, and some have made some good points.

Only F1 journalists seem to have been invited - no sportscar journo's or Indycar journo's were invited so it seems unlikely to be a WEC or Indycar announcement.

Buxton on Twitter says the event took place not at the MTC, but at their old building pre-MTC which is now used for the GT division.

https://twitter.com/wbuxtonofficial/status/1392370712611065858

Saw that too, let’s see I suppose.

[Deleted User]

A new McLaren F1 I'm going to guess. That Jon Noble tweets finishes with #f1 which I can imagine him smirking about as a way to get around the embargo. :pac:

[Deleted User]

sk8board wrote: »

It really doesn’t matter if it was Mercedes protested it or someone else, this one is a slam dunk.
They all see the RB wing was flexing, the pit Lane is a very small community and every team has a race team back at HQ monitoring every last thing - merc’s HQ race team is over 60 people

Like the RP brake ducts last year, only one team needs to protest (although Mclaren and Renault both took the lead that time, a s Renault then further appealed it too). ditto for the secret Ferrari trouble the previous season.
A protest from the heritage teams probably carry’s more weight.

Is it a slam dunk? Are the FIA going to make suggestions for materials which are perfectly stable under 5g or moving through the air at over 300km/h?
To my eyes the RB moves less than I'd expect of something hitting air resistance at high speed. If it passes the tests then you're right, it's a slam dunk.

It's a bit different to flexing front wings when they were dragging on the ground, that was a kind of on/off benefit. With the rear wing, yeah the move it lowers the better (on a straight) but I don't think any of the teams have a wing which doesn't move at all.

Joeface

It moves a lot more that the Mercedes wing based on the clip with the over laid grid , but not as Much as the Alpine wing form what I could see in other videos
Not sure the Trip to Monaco will show any changes to the rear wings , but races after that yeah we might see come changes there.

Cheating or not , it's a real clever use of Aero that you can see. I am impressed . I like seeing these things .

It's also entertaining watching the teams spy on each other and then Rat each out when it suits best.

barryribs

I wouldn't consider it cheating, I think that it was probably designed to pass the FIA test and flex as much as possible. FIA will likely change the test for the amount of flex on the rear wing, but if I was in Red Bulls shoes, I wouldn't be happy for different parameters being tested mid-season.

sk8board

barryribs wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it cheating, I think that it was probably designed to pass the FIA test and flex as much as possible. FIA will likely change the test for the amount of flex on the rear wing, but if I was in Red Bulls shoes, I wouldn't be happy for different parameters being tested mid-season.

I was thinking of the Merc steering ingenuity from last season - there was immediate outcry but it required a new rule and only outlawed from the end of the season. Considering the nature of F1 reg’s, was ingenious really. I imagine the other teams wondering why their own in-house brains hadn’t thought of it

This is different in that the reg already exists for flexing.
It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out.

sk8board

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A new McLaren F1 I'm going to guess. That Jon Noble tweets finishes with #f1 which I can imagine him smirking about as a way to get around the embargo. :pac:

Wasn’t that the speedtail? They even limited it to 106.

El_Duderino 09

sk8board wrote: »

I was thinking of the Merc steering ingenuity from last season - there was immediate outcry but it required a new rule and only outlawed from the end of the season. Considering the nature of F1 reg’s, was ingenious really. I imagine the other teams wondering why their own in-house brains hadn’t thought of it

This is different in that the reg already exists for flexing.
It’ll be interesting to see how it pans out.

I thinki heard the DAS system was suggested as far back as 2012. None of the teams thought it was worth it. Mercedes was really showing off how much spare cash they had by developing it and putting it on the car.

They might have gotten some marginal gains using it under safety car. They were never really beaten from safety car restarts last year but Lewis doesn't look as invincible in the same circumstances this year.

The DAS was seen as a symbol of Mercedes ingenuity rather than a really big gain for the Mercedes car.

Frank Bullitt

sk8board wrote: »

It really doesn’t matter if it was Mercedes protested it or someone else, this one is a slam dunk.
They all see the RB wing was flexing, the pit Lane is a very small community and every team has a race team back at HQ monitoring every last thing - merc’s HQ race team is over 60 people

Like the RP brake ducts last year, only one team needs to protest (although Mclaren and Renault both took the lead that time, a s Renault then further appealed it too). ditto for the secret Ferrari trouble the previous season.
A protest from the heritage teams probably carry’s more weight.

A slam dunk for what though?

The wing passes all the FIA stress tests, so it is not illegal. If the FIA change the loads for that test, and RB have to make adjustments to it then I am sure they will do.

FIA have said June, RB will test it themselves before that so they may or may not have to change something. The comparison to the brake duct isn't the same as that was seen as a direct copy, this case is more so the advantage a team may have with a clever component.

Frank Bullitt

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-red-bull-heckflugel-hamilton-anklage/

This will put the cat amongst the pigeons.

But there is another reason why Red Bull remains so calm. Sport1 learned: Unfortunately, the FIA regular guards do not target the Verstappen team at all, but rather Alpine. The former Renault factory team is said to be the biggest champion in bending. This would prove top-speed measurements.

RB sound very calm about what may come their way, which I hope doesn't ruin this close season.

sk8board

When I say a slam dunk, I mean that the tolerances on modern F1 cars are calibrated to a phenomenal degree - if a wing is flexing under load by a millimetre, it’s being done intentionally.

Hijpo

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-red-bull-heckflugel-hamilton-anklage/

This will put the cat amongst the pigeons.

RB sound very calm about what may come their way, which I hope doesn't ruin this close season.

Which beggars the question, do they set the tests to bring everyone to a standard which is even more ridged than the merc or do they tailor the test to bring everyone in line with merc which again would be penalising everyone to a standard that merc has already adapted to.

Frank Bullitt

sk8board wrote: »

When I say a slam dunk, I mean that the tolerances on modern F1 cars are calibrated to a phenomenal degree - if a wing is flexing under load by a millimetre, it’s being done intentionally.

Precisely. RB have (probably) used a certain type of carbon fibre weave that moves under a specific load at a specific time.

To be clear though, all wings on all cars flex. They need flex or they would shatter under load. It is why buildings flex and aeroplane wings do the same. RB have done this stuff before, and there are videos of it from last year as well.

Merc said nothing then because it had a clear advantage with its car over the whole field. It is only using this now because the fight is so close.