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Large extension in Dublin 12

ajhmartin903

Hi all,

I've been engaged with architects for a year now discussing a 55m2 two storey extension to an end of terrace property in Dublin (current 78m2). We have a set of garage and out-house buildings to the side of the house that will become the ground floor extension, with a second storey added on top with a new bedroom.

All along our budget has been €100k. We were pretty clear at the start of the process and were keen to ensure we didn't get into two storey extension discussions if this was simply unrealistic.

We were told it was ample budget, and a year of discussions later we finally have first costs back from the QS - they're coming in at €205k inc. VAT (so €3,700 per square metre). We could buy a second house for that! Even if we did away with the second storey and just did the ground floor extension (~33m2), we're told the costs are €125k.

We've been told this largely relates to a number of factors (Covid, Brexit, lack of available builders etc.). However, it still seems crazily high and frustratingly removed from the reality of our day-one budget (even factoring in for the inflation caused by these factors)

It now feels the original plan is totally out of reach for us, and the "backup" plan of just doing a ground floor extension also seems impossible.

Does anybody have any advice on next steps here? Is it worth trying to get thoughts from other QS / architects? Ride out the Covid storm and try again in a year? Abandon project as simply too expensive?

Any advice or thoughts would be much appreciated!

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BryanF

Hi i feel your pain. IMO This is a longer term problem that has been brewing for years, and is due to lots of factors and not just a brexit/ covid problem, although this having a massive impact. Building regs, building control regs, and a lack of competent trades people due the last recession (which is compounded/ impacted by a lack of new housing units) is driving up demand especially in urban areas. For example, if you read around the forum, you’ll see OP’s that have been finding it impossible to get a builder/ tradesperson for 3 or more years in urban areas.

You could go direct labour, this May save you a %, but it really depends on you, and how capable/knowledgeable you can become in understanding construction and managing individual trades. There are risks to this approach, that having been discussed across this forum.

00sully

I'm in a similar situation but with a much smaller requirement. Quotes coming in ~100k for a 10m2 extension. Bananas at the moment. I'm completely shelving plans at this stage.

blue note

Sorry to hear that OP. Who told you 100k was ample budget though? We bought in 2018, so started looking at the start of that year. We looked at a few that required a 40sqm extension and from talking to people them who were doing that size of extension he was looking at €150k, and struggling to get a builder available to do it.

To be Frank, I think you need to revise your plan and see what you can do. €100k isn't going to get much of an extension.

DOCARCH

blue note wrote: »

Who told you 100k was ample budget though?

Indeed.....even last year, that advice was a little naive!

I would have been allowing E 2,500 per m.sq. + VAT at 13.5 + cost of fit out (kitchen units, floor finishes, sanitaryware), and that's just for the extension bit. Then, with an extension, there are always works, and associated costs, to the existing house (to a greater or lesser extent) to be factored/added.

blue note

Yep, that sounds more in line with what we were thinking 3 years ago. When getting advice from people who had bought homes before us and sometimes done that sort of extension we were told we were looking at about €80k for a 40sqm extension. But that sort of price was out of date then, already they had gone up to almost double that. It was the same story with the cost of the house in fairness. People who were already in their houses, or in houses outside of Dublin would politely try to dissuade us from going for houses that were overpriced based on when they bought. They were being nice, but the market changed dramatically over the years. So the house that you could have gotten for €300k when they were buying, you were now looking at €400k.

I think people's perception of value partly freezes when they buy their house. I see it myself with a friend of mine who is now looking and sharing places he's looking at. They're just a bit more expensive than when we bought. But that doesn't mean that they're overpriced.

beauf

blue note wrote: »

Yep, that sounds more in line with what we were thinking 3 years ago. When getting advice from people who had bought homes before us and sometimes done that sort of extension we were told we were looking at about €80k for a 40sqm extension. But that sort of price was out of date then, already they had gone up to almost double that. It was the same story with the cost of the house in fairness. People who were already in their houses, or in houses outside of Dublin would politely try to dissuade us from going for houses that were overpriced based on when they bought. They were being nice, but the market changed dramatically over the years. So the house that you could have gotten for €300k when they were buying, you were now looking at €400k.

I think people's perception of value partly freezes when they buy their house. I see it myself with a friend of mine who is now looking and sharing places he's looking at. They're just a bit more expensive than when we bought. But that doesn't mean that they're overpriced.

That's true.

But you have to careful you don't put a load of money in a property thats then oversized for the site and oversized and over priced for the area.

I mean it makes no sense to put 200K into adding a couple of rooms into a D rated 3 bed. If for the same price you can buy a new larger 4 bed, A or B rated only a short distance away.

VANG1

Is your price one from your own QS, or a tender from a builder. Sometimes the QS overestimates cost in initial plan to look good when the tender comes in. Has he suggested any ways of reducing costs. His job is to hel- you get the best value.

Toby22

Hi, I have an extended family member in the construction trade, since Brexit price of materials has gone up by 15%. Add to that tradesmen wage per day close to €300, and one builder told him that it’s practically impossible to find subcontractors and if he does he has to pay over the going rate

ajhmartin903

Thanks all for the feedback so far.

It does look like our budget was always too small. It's frustrating as we were led to believe it was enough, but it is what it is. Even now, looking online for extension costs in Dublin, the results are misleading about what budget is required (e.g. some articles are from the last couple of months quote as low as €2,000 per square metre).

I also agree sinking €200k in, even if we had it, would be a poor use of money in the area we live in.

I think we'll speak to the QS/architects a little more to explore what options we have, but it looks like we may have to sadly park the project.

VANG1

It really suits builders and suppliers to talk up prices. Read article in today’s IT, it says material costs in a 300 to 350k home will go up from 13 to 14 %.

MercNS

We have also been looking at a 20m2 extension, no builders quotes yet but architect is talking about 100K!! Crazy. We will looks for quotes from builders anyway and see what comes back.

irishguy

It always makes me wonder how the likes of Ó Cualann can sell 100sqm A2 houses in Dublin for €219,000 (excluding land & development levies), they are getting a 5% margin and having to pay developer lending costs etc.

Granted I am sure they can't right now, but I would be very curious to see the actual price breakdown for the extension quotes and see where the money is going.

https://extra.ie/2020/02/07/news/irish-news/o-cualann-affordable-housing-scheme/amp