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The way forward for LC2021

History Queen

I'm interested in the views of other teachers as to what should happen to assess the work of LC2021 students. With growing calls for cancellation of the exams and predicted grades, I fear we are sleep walking in to a repeat of last year's debacle.

My personal view is the exams should go ahead as scheduled but perhaps a further review of papers to allow for more choice should happen, suggestions submitted from subject associations maybe?

As regards projects/orals/practicals I can only speak to my own subjects. In History I feel the project should go ahead as planned.

What do others think?

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TheValeyard

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Are superintendents SEC appointed for the LCVP exam or school appointed does anyone know?

Just on the Superintendents. Rumours are they are very short this year. Could uld be another shout out to try get more people to sign up.

rainbowtrout

TheValeyard wrote: »

Just on the Superintendents. Rumours are they are very short this year. Could uld be another shout out to try get more people to sign up.

I see this notice on the recruitment page:

Applications are now being invited for the position of superintendent at the 2021 examinations for the following counties: Dublin, Kildare, Meath, Louth, Wicklow, Waterford, Cork and Limerick.

No one has been appointed yet to the best of my knowledge, so it would probably help if people who did apply knew if they got it or not. Also, in my experience, one of the most frustrating parts of applying for superintending over the years (I'm 20 years teaching and have never got it) was getting the 'you're on the reserve list' letter and then the next day seeing them re-advertise for more examiners because they won't pay the mileage to examiners who want to do the work to go to Dublin.

It's usually just Dublin that has a shortage but clearly it's a much bigger problem this year.

Treppen

TheValeyard wrote: »

Just on the Superintendents. Rumours are they are very short this year. Could uld be another shout out to try get more people to sign up.

Email today...

Dear Principal / Manager,

The State Examinations Commission is satisfied with the number of Superintendents who have indicated that they are interested in superintending for the 2021 examinations. However, there may be a shortfall in certain areas and to this end we are undertaking a targeted recruitment of superintendents for the following counties:

Dublin, Kildare, Meath, Louth, Wicklow, Waterford, Cork and Limerick.

Ya so definitely not short... Except for 30% of Ireland. :pac:

Leftwaffe

LCVP exam guidance to be sent to schools in the coming week. Apparently you can hire a superintendent from within the school staff for it but not for the non-proficiency test later that day.

DubLad69

Hi guys,

Would anyone have a link to the document that sets out the pay for the superintendents for the LCVP and non-curricular languages exam?

I think one of the ones that I am looking for is S16/2021. But I can't find it anywhere.

Leftwaffe

Did anyone receive anything about the LCVP exam yet?

feedthegoat

DubLad69 wrote: »

Hi guys,

Would anyone have a link to the document that sets out the pay for the superintendents for the LCVP and non-curricular languages exam?

I think one of the ones that I am looking for is S16/2021. But I can't find it anywhere.

180 for LCVP, 240 if you do both

DubLad69

feedthegoat wrote: »

180 for LCVP, 260 if you do both

Thanks, any chance you have the document and could send it to me?

Leftwaffe

DubLad69 wrote: »

Thanks, any chance you have the document and could send it to me?

All correspondence will arrive in schools tomorrow I believe. Was posted today.

feedthegoat

DubLad69 wrote: »

Thanks, any chance you have the document and could send it to me?

In an e mail sent to your principal last friday

Bobtheman

Treppen wrote: »

Email today...

Ya so definitely not short... Except for 30% of Ireland. :pac:

It said short for Dublin. Where 33% of the population live. Small area. Big population

Bobtheman

Closing date was 7/5 for superintendents extra.

History Queen

Has anyone heard back about correcting? I applied this year after a break of 4 years but I didn't hear back. Can I assume at this stage that I won't? And yes I know I can contact the SEC directly to enquire, I just can't remember when you usually get confirmation.

Bobtheman

I stayed away from this thread as I still find the whole thing farcical. Accredited grades. I have never corrected LC exams. But yet I'm to come up with a grade for a new exam format?
I also assume a bell curve will operate?.
So if I think Johnny average will get between. 60 - 70 in the new exam - do I inflate to guard against their possible deflation?
Kids can surprise you on the day. Plus the lowering of standards can surprise you on the day.

Leftwaffe

Ive a couple of spare packets of unopened LCVP exams from this morning. Do I just keep then or are they to be returned? Don't see anything about returning them.

rainbowtrout

History Queen wrote: »

Has anyone heard back about correcting? I applied this year after a break of 4 years but I didn't hear back. Can I assume at this stage that I won't? And yes I know I can contact the SEC directly to enquire, I just can't remember when you usually get confirmation.

Haven’t heard back myself yet, I’ve been marking for 20 years so presume I’ll be doing it again this year.

I’d imagine there’s a few factors at play. Less examiners needed in each subject in general. Some might opt out having had last year off. Anyone who usually marks JC has no marking for last two years so might apply for LC if they resale want it. Hard to know.

Superintendents haven’t been applied either to the best of my knowledge.

rainbowtrout

Bobtheman wrote: »

I stayed away from this thread as I still find the whole thing farcical. Accredited grades. I have never corrected LC exams. But yet I'm to come up with a grade for a new exam format?
I also assume a bell curve will operate?.
So if I think Johnny average will get between. 60 - 70 in the new exam - do I inflate to guard against their possible deflation?
Kids can surprise you on the day. Plus the lowering of standards can surprise you on the day.

I structured my monthly assessments to match the new exam format. I marked them. Job done.

Random sample

History Queen wrote: »

Has anyone heard back about correcting? I applied this year after a break of 4 years but I didn't hear back. Can I assume at this stage that I won't? And yes I know I can contact the SEC directly to enquire, I just can't remember when you usually get confirmation.

I haven’t heard back this year either, and I did mark in 2019. Id say they are still wary about numbers and don’t want to over appoint examiners.

Random sample

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Ive a couple of spare packets of unopened LCVP exams from this morning. Do I just keep then or are they to be returned? Don't see anything about returning them.

The lcvp teachers in your school might like them? Handy test to hand out for 5th years.

Bobtheman

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I structured my monthly assessments to match the new exam format. I marked them. Job done.

But is that enough

rainbowtrout

Bobtheman wrote: »

But is that enough

I have previous assessments and tests for my students as well. I mark fairly and I don't overinflate grades.

We are asked in the guidelines to mark how we feel they would do if they sat the 2021 LC, so I've kept my assessments as close to that as possible. I'm not sure I can do much more.

jimmytwotimes 2013

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I have previous assessments and tests for my students as well. I mark fairly and I don't overinflate grades.

We are asked in the guidelines to mark how we feel they would do if they sat the 2021 LC, so I've kept my assessments as close to that as possible. I'm not sure I can do much more.

Natural inflation at corrector stage for LC 2021 due to increased options this year. Dept can sort themselves when applying the curve.

Teach30

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I have previous assessments and tests for my students as well. I mark fairly and I don't overinflate grades.

We are asked in the guidelines to mark how we feel they would do if they sat the 2021 LC, so I've kept my assessments as close to that as possible. I'm not sure I can do much more.

I have never marked LC and do my best to grade accurately however I will say that despite following a pre- paper marking scheme for one assessment I was still unsure if students were giving enough information for answers as the scheme only give bullet points and key words they should use. I definitely found myself giving students marks despite being unsure if they would get them, I couldn’t be listening to them complain.
I’m not the only one doing this!

Heard also of colleagues being asked to give a grade for work done on a project submitted in 5th year and they have no record of what students would have got as they are sent off to be corrected, so giving them all top marks for it. Madness.

rainbowtrout

Teach30 wrote: »

I have never marked LC and do my best to grade accurately however I will say that despite following a pre- paper marking scheme for one assessment I was still unsure if students were giving enough information for answers as the scheme only give bullet points and key words they should use. I definitely found myself giving students marks despite being unsure if they would get them, I couldn’t be listening to them complain.
I’m not the only one doing this!

Heard also of colleagues being asked to give a grade for work done on a project submitted in 5th year and they have no record of what students would have got as they are sent off to be corrected, so giving them all top marks for it. Madness.

You have a very low threshold for educational attainment.

Teach30

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You have a very low threshold for educational attainment.

No I just hate confrontation and having had terrible experiences with this student and parents in the past, verbally attacked for no good reason, I just don’t want to put myself through that again. I’m just looking out for myself.

This system isnt fair on teachers with no previous marking experience. Similar views in my staffroom and lots guarding themselves against the wrath of local parents and students.

Alex86Eire

Teach30 wrote: »

I have never marked LC and do my best to grade accurately however I will say that despite following a pre- paper marking scheme for one assessment I was still unsure if students were giving enough information for answers as the scheme only give bullet points and key words they should use. I definitely found myself giving students marks despite being unsure if they would get them, I couldn’t be listening to them complain.
I’m not the only one doing this!

Heard also of colleagues being asked to give a grade for work done on a project submitted in 5th year and they have no record of what students would have got as they are sent off to be corrected, so giving them all top marks for it. Madness.

Could you look for some advice from other teachers who have marked your subject before? Or contact your subject association?

Teach30

Alex86Eire wrote: »

Could you look for some advice from other teachers who have marked your subject before? Or contact your subject association?

Yea I asked teacher in another school I do slar with and they weren’t sure either, as neither of us correct. They actually would have given more marks for answers than I did!
Anyways assessments are over with now and grades have been given.

Dept said to go by what we think so I did, I followed the guidelines but there are others unsure like me.

wirelessdude01

Teach30 wrote: »

I have never marked LC and do my best to grade accurately however I will say that despite following a pre- paper marking scheme for one assessment I was still unsure if students were giving enough information for answers as the scheme only give bullet points and key words they should use. I definitely found myself giving students marks despite being unsure if they would get them, I couldn’t be listening to them complain.
I’m not the only one doing this!

Heard also of colleagues being asked to give a grade for work done on a project submitted in 5th year and they have no record of what students would have got as they are sent off to be corrected, so giving them all top marks for it. Madness.

I'm primary but I think you need to be more professional in your approach. Give them the grade that they deserve, not one to give you an easy live and appease students and parents.

Teach30

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'm primary but I think you need to be more professional in your approach. Give them the grade that they deserve, not one to give you an easy live and appease students and parents.

I think I was as professional as I could be tbh, I followed the guidelines and marking scheme to best of my ability. One went from 78 to 80% because I was VERY afraid of the reaction the 78 would get. I’d rather look after myself than worry about 2%.

My overall point is that the system isn’t very fair for those who have zero correcting experience or who didn’t keep records in 5th year. I’ll definitely keep better records goi g forward and look for my subject assoc to go through marking schemes with us - something they have never done as they dont know themselves how marks are allocated a lot of the time.

am_zarathustra

Is it a very niche subject you are teaching? Normally you'd get a few people in your subject association with experience correcting. I'd also recommend correcting one year for your own sake, it will give you a much better grounding.

I've found this year much more difficult than last year. Students performance has varied more than usual so a concrete grade is harder to stand over. I'd have been very confident last year that my grades would have been pretty close to accurate. This year I don't feel the same, and I have good records and 5 years correcting experience so don't feel too deflated. I think there will be a bit or erring on the higher side, if only because its tougher to narrow the grade. Last year I'd have been thinking about where in a band of 76-78% a kid was based on work,exams etc. This year I've some where I'm unsure where they lie on 75-85 and I'm trawling through their exams with the new structure in mind. Naturally I will err upwards, as many teachers will. The inconsistency of there last two years makes it a very different proposition