Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Worth a read:

https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/19267237.restoring-enniskillens-rail-links-key-priority/

https://twitter.com/CorkCommuter/status/1386985776630714368?fbclid=IwAR1Wghg62_60nFCIrSBGSLruRWCMVD7BZs0wg5C1FhGA3Ywo2eanOBCNZqo

I can't remember who first used the phrase about an infinite capacity for self-delusion, but these two links illustrate it perfectly. Add two and two and get twenty-two.
'Cork Commuter' blithely conflates post-covid working from home with the need for commuter rail. He/she suggests that working from home equals an increased demand for commuter rail. Kinda misses the point.
Hard to argue with that kind of logic.

[Deleted User]

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Worth a read

Not really.

I groaned when I saw the tired old comparison of the 1920's network with todays network. Told me all I needed to know about how the article was going to go and it didn't disappoint.

Worth a read:

https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/19267237.restoring-enniskillens-rail-links-key-priority/

https://twitter.com/CorkCommuter/status/1386985776630714368?fbclid=IwAR1Wghg62_60nFCIrSBGSLruRWCMVD7BZs0wg5C1FhGA3Ywo2eanOBCNZqo

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Support for the Quiet Man Greenway from the Galway City Council, great to see more of this happening

But how can that be, I heard from an organisation claiming to have 3,000 members that every council in the west supported the railway and only the railway, does this mean Sligo coco, Galway coco and now Galway coco don't actually agree with aforementioned organisation?

Losty Dublin wrote: »

True; they didn't need a RO for Ennis to Athenry but then again they may not have needed the extra powers that it offered. On the other hand one was used for the the disused but in situ Midleton project in 2007. A quick check shows that there were some freeholds changing hands; in this case it was obviously warranted.

I'd agree that there is an increased use of ROs, even for minor railway projects for whatever reasons.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

As regards adverse possession, it's up to the applicant to prove that the former owner of the holding can't be located or traced and that they have also not exercised any use or interest or claim in the land. If the route was to suddenly reopen there'd sure be a lot less manicured gardens in the Sligo and Mayo region :pac:

Adverse possession requires 12 years of demonstrated animus possidendi. It's a fairly high legal bar to meet. Most claimants will do exactly as you say - plant a garden, threaten adverse possession, do the math, and then agree to a small settlement. The point being that no major intervention is needed to protect the state owned asset.

Losty Dublin

ezstreet5 wrote: »

While that's true, Iarnród Éireann did not utilise the Railway Order approach to entitlements for Phase 1, and I doubt they'd use it for Phases 2 and 3. For Phase 1, "case-by-case" planning permission applications were used for new stations, field access structures, etc.

The only reason I could see for possibly seeking a new railway order would be if it were found that numerous bits of the permanent way had fallen into true adverse possession and needed to be reacquired. I don't suspect that is the case either, even up to Collooney. Adjacent landowners tend to chance various physical encroachments, but when it comes down to actually applying to the Land Registry for title, that would be a rare occurrence.

True; they didn't need a RO for Ennis to Athenry but then again they may not have needed the extra powers that it offered. On the other hand one was used for the the disused but in situ Midleton project in 2007. A quick check shows that there were some freeholds changing hands; in this case it was obviously warranted.

As regards adverse possession, it's up to the applicant to prove that the former owner of the holding can't be located or traced and that they have also not exercised any use or interest or claim in the land. If the route was to suddenly reopen there'd sure be a lot less manicured gardens in the Sligo and Mayo region :pac:

Losty Dublin wrote: »

However a Railway Order allows for any works that ordinarily would require planning permission on a case by case basis to be legally undertaken subject to those works being included in said Order along with land acquisition needs if required. In essence it acts as a catch all planning permission and a CPO for such a project and thus it makes life a lot easier for the legal eagles.

While that's true, Iarnród Éireann did not utilise the Railway Order approach to entitlements for Phase 1, and I doubt they'd use it for Phases 2 and 3. For Phase 1, "case-by-case" planning permission applications were used for new stations, field access structures, etc.

The only reason I could see for possibly seeking a new railway order would be if it were found that numerous bits of the permanent way had fallen into true adverse possession and needed to be reacquired. I don't suspect that is the case either, even up to Collooney. Adjacent landowners tend to chance various physical encroachments, but when it comes down to actually applying to the Land Registry for title, that would be a rare occurrence.

Losty Dublin

eastwest wrote: »

They would need a railway order to build it north of claremorris.

Ezstreet wrote:

The whole line is "a railway" because Irish Rail can rebuild it tomorrow without a fresh Railway Order.

To be fair you are both right and wrong here. There is no need for a Railway Order to lay new track and ballast, reopen stations, replace crossing gates etc etc.

However a Railway Order allows for any works that ordinarily would require planning permission on a case by case basis to be legally undertaken subject to those works being included in said Order along with land acquisition needs if required. In essence it acts as a catch all planning permission and a CPO for such a project and thus it makes life a lot easier for the legal eagles.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

They would need a railway order to build it north of claremorris.

You mean a miracle. But didn't they already have one of those in that area of the country.

[Deleted User]

Support for the Quiet Man Greenway from the Galway City Council, great to see more of this happening

City Council backs development of local greenways

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/city-council-backs-development-of-local-greenways/

Labour Councillor Niall McNelis submitted a motion for the Local authority to back the proposed Athenry to Claremorris greenway as well as the Galway to Athlone greenway which is currently in stage two of its public consultation process.

The motion further states that the council should back both projects as they will drive tourism and economic growth acoss the west and has been unanimously agreed

Councillor McNelis says it makes sense to back the projects as Galway city will be the ultimate destination for both greenways.

Decades wrote: »

Typical trainspotter drivel. They could also formerly abandon it tomorrow with a small advert in the back of the Irish Times. Symantec nonsense that serves no one.

I'm sorry if the statutory definition of "railway" triggers.

eastwest wrote: »

It isn't. But once you believe, and squint a bit....

it is, it has all the required infrastructure for a railway in place, ergo railway.
not about belief, but just simple facts.

Sam Russell wrote: »

I thought that for something to be a 'railway' it would need trains.

Otherwise it is just a 'railway track', assuming it still has rails, and they could support a train.

Otherwise it is just a 'railway alignment'.

Under those definitions, it is not a 'railway'.

if it has trains on it then it would be classed as a working railway.
if it doesn't, then it would be classed as either.
1. an inactive railway, if open but not opened to scheduled traffic but can take traffic.
2. a closed railway if not open to any traffic/is unable to support traffic.
if it has no track then yes it's just an alignment.
the WRC would be an inactive/closed railway as it does have track in place but is unable to support traffic without a rebuild.
that is how the terminology has always gone from my years of being involved in discussions of rail anyway.

Sam Russell

I thought that for something to be a 'railway' it would need trains.

Otherwise it is just a 'railway track', assuming it still has rails, and they could support a train.

Otherwise it is just a 'railway alignment'.

Under those definitions, it is not a 'railway'.

end of the road wrote: »

it's still a railway, so he is correct.

It isn't. But once you believe, and squint a bit....

Decades

end of the road wrote: »

it's still a railway, so he is correct.

Somes up the depth of the trains argument perfectly.

Decades wrote: »

Typical trainspotter drivel. They could also formerly abandon it tomorrow with a small advert in the back of the Irish Times. Symantec nonsense that serves no one.

it's still a railway, so he is correct.

eastwest wrote: »

They would need a railway order to build it north of claremorris.

On what basis?

ezstreet5 wrote: »

The whole line is "a railway" because Irish Rail can rebuild it tomorrow without a fresh Railway Order.

They would need a railway order to build it north of claremorris.

Decades

ezstreet5 wrote: »

The whole line is "a railway" because Irish Rail can rebuild it tomorrow without a fresh Railway Order.

Typical trainspotter drivel. They could also formerly abandon it tomorrow with a small advert in the back of the Irish Times. Symantec nonsense that serves no one.

eastwest wrote: »

As I said, we're all in favour of a railway, it's just that some of us are pragmatists.
But while the line from Athenry to Claremorris is still a railway, albeit a closed one with a very slim chance of ever reopening, the one from Claremorris to Collooney is not a railway. It is however part of the WTC, and could in time become a railway. Apart from the bits that have been subsumed into other landholdings.

The whole line is "a railway" because Irish Rail can rebuild it tomorrow without a fresh Railway Order.

end of the road wrote: »

still a railway ultimately between athenry to claremorris.
calling it the western transport corridor means nothing in reality, currently it's a disused railway.
actually transport corridor works more in favour of rail it could be argued given rail can be used any day of the year and in most types of weather, so actually perhapse in time the term could in fact become useful.

As I said, we're all in favour of a railway, it's just that some of us are pragmatists.
But while the line from Athenry to Claremorris is still a railway, albeit a closed one with a very slim chance of ever reopening, the one from Claremorris to Collooney is not a railway. It is however part of the WTC, and could in time become a railway. Apart from the bits that have been subsumed into other landholdings.

eastwest wrote: »

North of claremorris, it isn't. Its closed, not disused, and Irish Rail has repeatedly said that the rails are scrap and don't constitute a railway.
South of claremorris, it's a closed railway. The entire route is designated as the western transport corridor, recognising its likely future as being broader than just Rail.

still a railway ultimately between athenry to claremorris.
calling it the western transport corridor means nothing in reality, currently it's a disused railway.
actually transport corridor works more in favour of rail it could be argued given rail can be used any day of the year and in most types of weather, so actually perhapse in time the term could in fact become useful.

Greaney wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion, just as the residents & community group have theirs, which is different from yours

That#'s not an opinion, it's a fact. Check with the Department of Transport, or look at their submission to the Mayo County Development Plan -- it's on the Mayo County Council website.

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

I'm sure everybody would like to see a railway built, but the reality is different. Although ironically Ballyglunin would do a lot better with a greenway in terms of local jobs and investment.
That's obviously an old FB post by the way, the route is now officially 'the western transport corridor.'

You're entitled to your opinion, just as the residents & community group have theirs, which is different from yours

end of the road wrote: »

exactly.
the fact is, the western railway corridor is a railway line, a disused one but still one.

North of claremorris, it isn't. Its closed, not disused, and Irish Rail has repeatedly said that the rails are scrap and don't constitute a railway.
South of claremorris, it's a closed railway. The entire route is designated as the western transport corridor, recognising its likely future as being broader than just Rail.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

What are they transporting, and by what means?

exactly.
the fact is, the western railway corridor is a railway line, a disused one but still one.

eastwest wrote: »

the route is now officially 'the western transport corridor.'

What are they transporting, and by what means?

Greaney wrote: »

Yes it is. The community are terrific and have been restoring the station for some years now. They use it as a community theater, park & venue for local events. The station is the heart of the community. You can see they have a very active/current facebook page here

Ballyglunin support the Western Rail Corridor

I'm sure everybody would like to see a railway built, but the reality is different. Although ironically Ballyglunin would do a lot better with a greenway in terms of local jobs and investment.
That's obviously an old FB post by the way, the route is now officially 'the western transport corridor.'

Greaney

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Looks like the Velorail project isn't the only one getting grants, Ballyglunin station to get some restoration works done;

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/188041/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Is it currently in any sort of use?

Yes it is. The community are terrific and have been restoring the station for some years now. They use it as a community theater, park & venue for local events. The station is the heart of the community. You can see they have a very active/current facebook page here

Ballyglunin support the Western Rail Corridor