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First Aid?

civdef

Follow up thread to the Kentucky Ballistics 50bmg kaboom video in the OT thread - do you carry any first aid gear with your shooting stuff?

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[Deleted User]

CJhaughey wrote: »

Pace yourselves lads, recommended is 100bpm but if you are doing compressions only you can’t do it for more than about 15 mins. Even if fit its a lot of effort. I would say slow it down a bit especially if help is not immediately coming, you don’t want to stop as clots start forming and that’s not a good thing. Make sure you are stripped off as you will get hot pretty quickly and you don’t want to stop to take off your jacket.
I instruct this and I don’t think I could do more than 15 mins at 100bpm, but if you have a buddy then it’s possible to do a lot more as you take turns and count each other in. Don’t forget to keep checking airway as well.

You probably won't need to do it for more than 15 mins though

After about 4 minutes practice I noticed I was struggling with the rhythm.

We trained the buddy system too, it's great also for reducing the gap between compressions and breaths, very fluid.

There are also apps available online for timing that everyone could download and have on their phone permanently

CJhaughey

riffmongous wrote: »

You probably won't need to do it for more than 15 mins though

You keep going until you either cannot do it any longer or the Doc says they are dead.
My brother is a co-responder with London Ambulance and they get a lot of them where the person is a deader, they still do it until they get to a Hospital or a Doc says stop. Ribs breaking etc keep going....
People can be brought around especially if cold and apparently dead.

Traumadoc

My favourite Training video:

GooseB

I know there's a YouTube entertainment thread but since this relates to a shooting accident and the medical treatment afterwards I thought I'd post it here.

slipperyox

Never have that one last shot after the last shot:)

Luckily he had Heisenberg to save him

tudderone

Seeing as we are on the subject, i was out with the dog the other morning and there was an elderly woman lying on the footpath after getting a nasty fall. Two lads in a car had stopped and were giving aid, turns out they were detectives. Anyway if i was a few minutes earlier, i would have been first on scene and to be honest i really would not have known what to do.

Is there anywhere i can do a decent first aid course ? St.Johns Ambulance or something like that ?

civdef

Courses are a bit thinner on the ground than normal with Covid (and a lot harder to deliver), but there are loads of training providers around generally speaking.

Certified training runs from 4 hours for a CFR (cpr and AED) course, to 3 days for FAR (occupational) training.
There are more advanced training levels available too, but generally only do these if you have a specific need (and opportunities to keep skills up).

A lot of people get training for free through their work - no harm in asking there anyway.

There are free courses around - but generally they'll be non-certified. Community CFR groups do often offer free CPR courses though.

Adult education centres and Local Enterprise boards can be a good source of subsidised FAR courses. If someone is unemployed they can sometimes get them through SOLAS.

There are a few instructors on this thread even (myself included). If there was enough interest I'm sure we could put together a free course for shooters once restrictions ease off.

Grizzly 45

civdef wrote: »

There are a few instructors on this thread even (myself included). If there was enough interest I'm sure we could put together a free course for shooters once restrictions ease off.

Sign me up for one.

[Deleted User]

CJhaughey wrote: »

You keep going until you either cannot do it any longer or the Doc says they are dead.
My brother is a co-responder with London Ambulance and they get a lot of them where the person is a deader, they still do it until they get to a Hospital or a Doc says stop. Ribs breaking etc keep going....
People can be brought around especially if cold and apparently dead.

Can be brought back but with what level of brain damage after 15 mins..

[Deleted User]

tudderone wrote: »

Seeing as we are on the subject, i was out with the dog the other morning and there was an elderly woman lying on the footpath after getting a nasty fall. Two lads in a car had stopped and were giving aid, turns out they were detectives. Anyway if i was a few minutes earlier, i would have been first on scene and to be honest i really would not have known what to do.

Is there anywhere i can do a decent first aid course ? St.Johns Ambulance or something like that ?

I always recommend the Red Cross since I had good experiences there

tomtucker81

I have always put a decent first aid kit in the bag. Its compact and fits in a pouch. Contains plasters, bandages and scissors, wipes, gloves, tape, dressing pads and a forst aid blanket. It's actually an Oxford motorcycle first aid kit. Very compact and good handy stuff in it. Only ever used once when i carelessly sliced my thumb while dealing with a deer. Would recommend lads have one. Better looking at it than for it. Can't seem to attach a pic but the pack fits in my hand. Really compact and came in very very useful the one time it was needed

otmmyboy2

civdef wrote: »

If there was enough interest I'm sure we could put together a free course for shooters once restrictions ease off.

Interested too, I'd be happy to get a refresher & help out if you need.

tudderone

riffmongous wrote: »

Can be brought back but with what level of brain damage after 15 mins..

Yes, there was a fly-on-the-wall hospital programme on the other night. A young woman had a heart attack and was brought in where they were able to stabilise her, but she was without oxygen for so long that her brain was basically dead. They turned the life support off after 3 days

CJhaughey

riffmongous wrote: »

Can be brought back but with what level of brain damage after 15 mins..

Maybe brain damage but maybe not, I'm not the one to make that decision.
All I can do as a first aider is provide it to the best of my ability.
I know of people pulled out of cold water after a long time that were revived and suffered no ill effects seemingly.
Again, just do what you are trained to do.
Good CPR is about 25% effective.

CJhaughey

If anyone wants an IPOK they are available pretty reasonably from Varusteleka.
Ideal for a basic anti-hemorrhage kit with a CAT, wound packing gauze, Flat bandage and a pair of all important gloves.
https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/nar-ipok-first-aid-kit/67464?cb=ogknxn2j&utm_medium=email&utm_source=custobar&utm_campaign=propagandakirje-05-2021-en&utm_content=products

civdef

CJhaughey wrote: »

Again, just do what you are trained to do.
Good CPR is about 25% effective.

I've been fortunate to see a good few cases in the day job where the chain of survival works and the person makes a good recovery. In every single one of those cases, bystander CPR was underway when emergency services arrived on scene.

Short version is that unless bystanders attempt CPR, the person has really very little chance.

CJhaughey

civdef wrote: »

I've been fortunate to see a good few cases in the day job where the chain of survival works and the person makes a good recovery. In every single one of those cases, bystander CPR was underway when emergency services arrived on scene.

Short version is that unless bystanders attempt CPR, the person has really very little chance.

That's what I tell my students, you do nothing, and that person is dead.

Attempt CPR and even if its not 100% correct that person has a hell of a lot better chance than none at all.
There was a case just a few years back where a schoolgirl of 13-14 in Dublin witnessed a person collapse and had just had CPR training, and put it to use and saved that persons life.

It really doesn't take that much and these days with compressions only being advised it is easier than ever with no 30:2 to remember.

Traumadoc

Totally agree, bystander CPR is critical.

civdef

In fairness, looking at the average demographic profile of the typical shooting club - CPR is a topic everyone at a range probably needs too, and more likely to be used than a CAT....

CJhaughey

civdef wrote: »

In fairness, looking at the average demographic profile of the typical shooting club - CPR is a topic everyone at a range probably needs too, and more likely to be used than a CAT....

and a defib on site.

LIFFY FISHING

In our club we have a first aid kit on all 4 Ranges and an AED on site.
A full certified course was run to train 18 club members in CPR up to certified CFR and basic first aid.

Cass

All this talk of first aid kits got me thinking. I haven't checked mine in a while so took it out today. Found i was a little shy on some things and other items were past their sell by date.

So restocked it with fresh bandages, plasters, antiseptic, etc. Thanks for the indirect reminder.

Rows Grower

Traumadoc wrote: »

Totally agree, bystander CPR is critical.

A good friend of mine is alive today because of it.

Half-cocked

Cass wrote: »

All this talk of first aid kits got me thinking. I haven't checked mine in a while so took it out today. Found i was a little shy on some things and other items were past their sell by date.

So restocked it with fresh bandages, plasters, antiseptic, etc. Thanks for the indirect reminder.

I won't name the organization to spare blushes, but a good few years back they purchased about 20 defibs and distributed to various clubs. Some time later it was discovered that the batteries had long passed their best before date. Quick recall to replace all the batteries (at great expense) and sighs of relief that no one had needed a jump start before the problem was fixed.

If you have defibs on your range, check the batteries regularly!

Cass

Half-cocked wrote: »

Quick recall to replace all the batteries (at great expense) and sighs of relief that no one had needed a jump start before the problem was fixed.!

Just A-Team it:

slipperyox

who'd want to distribute defibs these days:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/man-receives-300-000-after-suing-defibrillator-supplier-over-wife-s-death-1.4543512

Cass

All discussion on fire extinguishers moved to off topic thread so as to keep this thread clean and on topic.

Grizzly 45

Question on Defibs and medical 1st aid here in IRL
What is the legal position with you using one of these without any training on a victim here, and what is also the position legally here if you render 1st aid in good faith, but do more harm.

IE say you drag someone out of a car wreck who had a spinal injury and paralyze them, even though there was a risk of the wreck catching fire?

Is there an "absolvement of harm "[dunno what the proper legal term is] under Irish law for rendering 1st aid but making hames of it.
Germany for example, it's mandatory you do a 1st aid course with your driver's license, and you must have a 1st aid kit in your car at all times.

But you don't have to keep that course current or that 1st aid kit up to spec either, but you are absolved of any "medical malpractice" by having the course done if you act in a life-threatening situation. So where do we stand here?

otmmyboy2

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Question on Defibs and medical 1st aid here in IRL
What is the legal position with you using one of these without any training on a victim here, and what is also the position legally here if you render 1st aid in good faith, but do more harm.

IE say you drag someone out of a car wreck who had a spinal injury and paralyze them, even though there was a risk of the wreck catching fire?

Is there an "absolvement of harm "[dunno what the proper legal term is] under Irish law for rendering 1st aid but making hames of it.
Germany for example, it's mandatory you do a 1st aid course with your driver's license, and you must have a 1st aid kit in your car at all times.

But you don't have to keep that course current or that 1st aid kit up to spec either, but you are absolved of any "medical malpractice" by having the course done if you act in a life-threatening situation. So where do we stand here?

You're looking for good samaritan laws, of which we actually have a half decent one for a change!
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/23/section/4/enacted/en/html

The logic being if you are doing compressions as part of CPR you are very likely to damage the ribs, but broken ribs are a better alternative than death, thus it's alright

Richard308

Cass wrote: »

All this talk of first aid kits got me thinking. I haven't checked mine in a while so took it out today. Found i was a little shy on some things and other items were past their sell by date.

So restocked it with fresh bandages, plasters, antiseptic, etc. Thanks for the indirect reminder.

I’m serious sanitary towels should be in every pack. Two reasons
Unbelievably absorbent and (half sterile 5% of the price of dressings) great for keeping pressure on open wound.
Secondly
Great additional padding for a heavily pack or drag rope.
You get over the strange looks when your mate looks in your range bag for tool kit.