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Child Item

The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

The Cush

Announced this morning - http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/0923/645685-rte-radio-1-moves-from-longwave-transmission/

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/static/2014/0821/638554-stay-tuned/
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/radio1/rte-radio-1-staytuned.pdf

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Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember doing a job at a house one time and there was this American Family moving in, the Husband got a job I think with Microsoft and a DID truck came with a tonne of stuff and dropped the stuff in the house and legged it, The Mrs went nuclear, she had expected the whole lot unpacked, installed, tv, DVD, washing machine the whole lot, rubbish taken away

D.I.D. originally stood for Deliver, Install & Demonstrate.

They may have negotiated / paid extra for installation which didn't happen.

There may have been old appliances which were supposed to have been taken away under WEEE regulations.

[Deleted User]

Sam Russell wrote: »

A plumber or electrician earns more in their first decade of qualified work than a barrister does. Even a trainee barista gets more than a trainee barrister.

The whole leaving cert and 'points race' is led by the Irish Times and the Indo to sell papers by creating a hysteria over 'higher valued' university places and getting the chattering classes chattering.

Germany and Switzerland have excellent vocational trainee systems. We should copy them. Our main problem in our educational system is the belief among second level teachers that the best three things in teaching are the months of June, July, and August.

The 2nd level education system and points is a farce and the pandemic has shown the whole lot up for what it is.

I couldn't count the amount of people I know or have come across that have gone to 3rd level and either not completed it or in a line of work completely unrelated to their degree and all pretty successful.

The teachers unions are too powerful especially when you have People in government that are teachers or were.

[Deleted User]

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

You obviously haven't seen the recent todo about Americans having to pump their own petrol. Many haven't a clue how to do it. Of course we have our own generation who can't even change a puncture.

Indeed you're correct but there's the cars with no spare wheel and just a can of sealer that may or may not work depending on the severity of the puncture.

I remember doing a job at a house one time and there was this American Family moving in, the Husband got a job I think with Microsoft and a DID truck came with a tonne of stuff and dropped the stuff in the house and legged it, The Mrs went nuclear, she had expected the whole lot unpacked, installed, tv, DVD, washing machine the whole lot, rubbish taken away, then bitching about having to take the bin to the gate, they should drive in down the long driveway and pick it up, I thought it was really amusing I have to say.

Sam Russell

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

By no means everyone is cut out for academic third level education but we seem determined to push as many as possible down that route, and then complain about the huge drop-out rates.

Needs to be a much bigger emphasis on vocational education and apprenticeships, look at Germany where they do this very successfully. But Irish parents look down their noses at this.

A plumber or electrician earns more in their first decade of qualified work than a barrister does. Even a trainee barista gets more than a trainee barrister.

The whole leaving cert and 'points race' is led by the Irish Times and the Indo to sell papers by creating a hysteria over 'higher valued' university places and getting the chattering classes chattering.

Germany and Switzerland have excellent vocational trainee systems. We should copy them. Our main problem in our educational system is the belief among second level teachers that the best three things in teaching are the months of June, July, and August.

Hotblack Desiato

By no means everyone is cut out for academic third level education but we seem determined to push as many as possible down that route, and then complain about the huge drop-out rates.

Needs to be a much bigger emphasis on vocational education and apprenticeships, look at Germany where they do this very successfully. But Irish parents look down their noses at this.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Every young Person today in School should learn how to tear down an engine and build it up again, or at least take it apart and learn how the thing works. Get a broken radio and learn how to fix it, get the brain stimulated.....Get a broken washing machine, here this is broke, fix it.

The problem I see with the education system here in Ireland is that there is too much emphasis on learning stuff off by rote (but not necessarily understanding it) with the goal being maximum points in the LC.

Practical skills that can set young people up for life, i.e. hands-on learning that they will actually use really are what is needed in schools. It isn't all about academics after all...

[Deleted User]

Sam Russell wrote: »

I wonder did Samsung-man actually get a TV licence.

He didn't. The TV was saorview-compatible (it said that on the box) & there was a saorview ad doing the rounds at the time which went something along the lines of "Why pay for TV when you can get it for free". So he thought you didn't need a TV licence if you bought a saorview TV - it was included in the price as a one-off payment.

We were outside a shop eating our lunch one warm day during the summer when a Dutch-registered VW camper van with a CB aerial on the roof just happened to be parked nearby. He was wondering what the tall aerial was for & panicked a bit when I told him the the van was probably being driven by an undercover TV licence inspector...

:D:D

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

That's funny! yeah, be more worried about the future, because they will depend too much on computers than to actually think and do for themselves, all the youth want today is to be glued to screens and the most technical thing they're being exposed to in schools is the raspberry Pi, young folk today think they're great when they load a "pre built" image on to a Raspbetty PI or put the board into the case!

Every young Person today in School should learn how to tear down an engine and build it up again, or at least take it apart and learn how the thing works. Get a broken radio and learn how to fix it, get the brain stimulated.....Get a broken washing machine, here this is broke, fix it.

The Raspberry Pi was originally designed to get students going to Cambridge to learn programming - as most student applicants did not have a clue about computers or how to code a program to the horror of the course organiser.

So he designed the Pi. It was incredibly successful, but how many are in the back of drawers?

Gerry Wicklow

Deleted User wrote: »

That's funny! yeah, be more worried about the future, because they will depend too much on computers than to actually think and do for themselves, all the youth want today is to be glued to screens and the most technical thing they're being exposed to in schools is the raspberry Pi, young folk today think they're great when they load a "pre built" image on to a Raspbetty PI or put the board into the case!

Every young Person today in School should learn how to tear down an engine and build it up again, or at least take it apart and learn how the thing works. Get a broken radio and learn how to fix it, get the brain stimulated.....Get a broken washing machine, here this is broke, fix it.

You obviously haven't seen the recent todo about Americans having to pump their own petrol. Many haven't a clue how to do it.

Of course we have our own generation who can't even change a puncture.

Sam Russell

rathfarnhamlad wrote: »

One of the young engineers (yes, really) who I used to work with a couple of years back bought a top of the line kick-a55 Samsung TV for well over a grand & tried to get a refund on it when it wasn't picking up any stations. His argument was that if he was spending that kind of money then he shouldn't have to go messing about with aerials, satellite dishes, set top boxes or even pay extra for netfilx for that matter. As far as he was concerned, for that price, all he should have to do is just unbox it & plug it in!

I didn't know whether to laugh out loud or seriously worry about the future of humanity...

Is that the guy with a BMW 740i that he cannot get to go because, having paid that much for it, does not think he should put petrol into it, pay motor tax, or even pay for insurance. Come to think of it, there are plenty like that getting stopped by the Gardai - no tax, no ins, no NCT.

I wonder did Samsung-man actually get a TV licence.

[Deleted User]

rathfarnhamlad wrote: »

One of the young engineers (yes, really) who I used to work with a couple of years back bought a top of the line kick-a55 Samsung TV for well over a grand & tried to get a refund on it when it wasn't picking up any stations. His argument was that if he was spending that kind of money then he shouldn't have to go messing about with aerials, satellite dishes, set top boxes or even pay extra for netfilx for that matter. As far as he was concerned, for that price, all he should have to do is just unbox it & plug it in!

I didn't know whether to laugh out loud or seriously worry about the future of humanity...

That's funny! yeah, be more worried about the future, because they will depend too much on computers than to actually think and do for themselves, all the youth want today is to be glued to screens and the most technical thing they're being exposed to in schools is the raspberry Pi, young folk today think they're great when they load a "pre built" image on to a Raspbetty PI or put the board into the case!

Every young Person today in School should learn how to tear down an engine and build it up again, or at least take it apart and learn how the thing works. Get a broken radio and learn how to fix it, get the brain stimulated.....Get a broken washing machine, here this is broke, fix it.

Gerry Wicklow

rathfarnhamlad wrote: »

One of the young engineers (yes, really) who I used to work with a couple of years back bought a top of the line kick-a55 Samsung TV for well over a grand & tried to get a refund on it when it wasn't picking up any stations. His argument was that if he was spending that kind of money then he shouldn't have to go messing about with aerials, satellite dishes, set top boxes or even pay extra for netfilx for that matter. As far as he was concerned, for that price, all he should have to do is just unbox it & plug it in!

I didn't know whether to laugh out loud or seriously worry about the future of humanity...

Sadly we get a few like that every now and then with absolutely no concept of the technology. My favourite was someone in Limerick trying to get UK channels on an indoor aerial.
Mind you, Saorviews adverts can be misleading in that respect too.

[Deleted User]

doughnut2000 wrote: »

There are so many people posting that can't spell aerial and don't know why their TV doesn't work without one. I'm not sure LW / MW has a future.

One of the young engineers (yes, really) who I used to work with a couple of years back bought a top of the line kick-a55 Samsung TV for well over a grand & tried to get a refund on it when it wasn't picking up any stations. His argument was that if he was spending that kind of money then he shouldn't have to go messing about with aerials, satellite dishes, set top boxes or even pay extra for netfilx for that matter. As far as he was concerned, for that price, all he should have to do is just unbox it & plug it in!

I didn't know whether to laugh out loud or seriously worry about the future of humanity...

[Deleted User]

doughnut2000 wrote: »

There are so many people posting that can't spell aerial and don't know why their TV doesn't work without one. I'm not sure LW / MW has a future.

It doesn't have a future as long as the radio broadcasters shut them down. Auto manufacturers rarely include LW/MW in cars today. Any radios you can buy in most shops are junk.

Radio broadcasters think that having an ultra modern digital platform and playing pop music all day is good enough to keep listeners but if the content is good enough People will listen on any platform and LW/MW/FM is one of the easiest platforms imaginable to listen to.

LW/MW audiences are reducing not because People don't want it but because the radio broadcast companies don't want it and because the Auto Makers won't give you AM in the car and include a platform that's no good to a lot of People at least everyone can hear something on LW/MW radio................

doughnut2000

There are so many people posting that can't spell aerial and don't know why their TV doesn't work without one. I'm not sure LW / MW has a future.

[Deleted User]

Nothing wrong with the signal from 252, I'm a lot closer than someone in Kerry but the difference an outside antenna makes is as I said earlier, night and day but LW 252 can be picked up inside without any issues, I'm around 5 Kms from Carlow Town.

Below is a link to one of my SDRs, it's got the Bonito Megaloop FX antenna, a very fine antenna especially for signals about 1500 Kms and the other one with the Bonito MegaDipol is great for longer distance or DX.

http://emeraldsdr1.proxy.kiwisdr.com:8073/

This uses the Bonito Megadipol antenna.

http://emeraldsdr.proxy.kiwisdr.com:8073/

Unfortunately I suffer from some major intermittent QRM from ESB line which I have repeatedly asked them to fix for 4 years. So need to get Comreg involved. I think I have enough evidence gathered now.

[Deleted User]

I always found that older radios, be they transistors or tubes, had far better sound on MW/LW, as they were designed at a time when that was the dominant if not the only radio platform & were optimized very specifically for that purpose. Newer receivers seem to include the MW & LW bands as an afterthought more so than anything else.

As for receiving only the strong local signals, the DX/local switch was a useful feature that should never have disappeared & I can't imagine added to production cost per unit too much...

[Deleted User]

Mickey Mike wrote: »

I turned on LW in my car driving on the Kerry Limerick border, there is a lot of noise on it as the power of the TX is not what it should be, and when I went under power lines it was worse again, so I don't know how people in the UK can listen to such interference. I feel AM had its day, with so many platforms broadcasters are not going to keep them all going so the oldest ones are to go, "I'd be thinking" although I was surprised DAB got the chop.

Don't be fooled by thinking the signal is poor, most car stereos today with LW/MW are junk, there are few exceptions. Our Outlander from 2015 actually has a great MW/LW radio, very sensitive and while we were driving from Wales to Birmingham and further North LW 252 was exceptional and it was even better than many local MW stations. I was very impressed, even driving around Birmingham City.

Yes going under power high power power lines can cause some noise it doesn't bother me really. I'm not fussed by such things really.

Most LW/MW radios today you buy are also poor quality with very poor receiving capabilities except for the strongest of signals. But at the end of the day a radio is only as good as it's antenna and very few radios today allow for an external antenna to be connected, difference just like tv is night and day so why should it be different for radio ?

DAB to many Broadcast Companies is not worth the investment, going digital for the sake of going digital is a waste in my opinion, it offers nothing like the benefits of Digital TV and only offers inferior poorer reception areas. Going digital for the likes of radio just to be modern, there's really no benefit over a modern FM receiver.

However, I do admit being an radio amateur radio fascinates me and I really believe ham radio courses should be offered in schools to teach people about the older technologies and that there is other fascinating things out there besides internet and raspberry pi's, If it were not for radio, mobile phones would be useless and your laptop wouldn't work without being connected to a wire all the time.

Sending a signal thousands of miles away or to the far side of the Planet and getting a reply from someone else antenna to antenna with no infrastructure in between is just one of the most amazing feelings in the world, it's one truly fascinating hobby to have.

marno21

Mickey Mike wrote: »

I turned on LW in my car driving on the Kerry Limerick border, there is a lot of noise on it as the power of the TX is not what it should be, and when I went under power lines it was worse again, so I don't know how people in the UK can listen to such interference. I feel AM had its day, with so many platforms broadcasters are not going to keep them all going so the oldest ones are to go, "I'd be thinking" although I was surprised DAB got the chop.

Interference in the UK is a lot less disturbing because the signals are much stronger.

198 is less used in the UK (opt outs aside) due to R4 being on FM and in LW in many places too. (My car radio has no LW but can get R4 on 756 AM from Redruth in Cornwall (direct sea path to Cork)).

R5L and Talksport have the benefit in the UK of multiple frequencies with local variations in signal strength.

In saying that, Kerry/Limerick has the worst AM reception in Ireland surely. Miles from the border and miles from Wales/England.

Mickey Mike

I turned on LW in my car driving on the Kerry Limerick border, there is a lot of noise on it as the power of the TX is not what it should be, and when I went under power lines it was worse again, so I don't know how people in the UK can listen to such interference. I feel AM had its day, with so many platforms broadcasters are not going to keep them all going so the oldest ones are to go, "I'd be thinking" although I was surprised DAB got the chop.

FRIENDO

I'm still listening to RTE RADIO 1 on LW in my car.
As I find driving from Co. Wexford to Dublin for work, FM only works in urban areas in my Renault

Also listening to
LW 198 BBC4
MW BBC5 live

MW BBC 5 Live, live football can be listened to fine, however on tuenin, live football is blocked for rights.

Don't like listening to Internet radio in the car as it eats the Internet allowance

watty

kazoo106 wrote: »

Virtually all my radio listening is nowadays by DAB from across the border, there are no issues with quality on the vast majority of broadcasts, in fact Downtown radio was most enjoyable over last weekend.
Anyway we are veering a little off topic. There remains a requirement for RTE on AM (as there was for Radio Ulster) on this island. There still are huge areas with no decent FM coverage.

And IN even Belfast / Bangor area DAB is poorer than FM. The receivers too due to need to buffer are slower to change station in the car, especially to a different multiplex compared instant FM. I know people in Bangor that have abandoned DAB and using only FM. DAB+ is just used anywhere it's implemented to save costs. DAB bitrates are half what they should be because otherwise twice the cost.

It's a shame R. Ulster closed on AM. The power though was a lot less making extended night time coverage poor. These changes are not driven by listener needs but accountants rather than a service providing mentality. Never have people with accounting attitudes in charge of policy in any broadcaster or company. Accountants should only be advising on costs and managing the money.

watty

Two tier society, those that have broadband and those that don't.

Most of the AM closures in Europe have been driven by accountants, not consideration of coverage to listeners. FM after 70 to 80 years depending country doesn't have the coverage. Partly because they won't add fill-in relays. DAB is worse in UK than FM for coverage. The UK uses Five on MW and R4 on LW because there isn't enough FM or DAB coverage.

Broadcast on radio is complementary to Broadband streaming which suits niche stations and is actually very expensive if engineered for a mass audience; it scales poorly. AM on MW and LW is still the most effective coverage for the entire population, at a very low environmental cost for the receivers, and per million simultaneous listeners LW or MW is much cheaper transmission than the mobile Network!

[Deleted User]

RIP, sad time!

Oscarziggy

rathfarnhamlad wrote: »

Radio Ulster gone from MW as of yesterday

Yep - I will miss it on 1341khz - always a good signal here in Pembrokeshire .
Another preset free for something else on the car radio - 1395 khz has sprung to mind .

[Deleted User]

Radio Ulster gone from MW as of yesterday

[Deleted User]

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I think this is very much rose-tinted.

It's amazing to look back on the complete shíte that millions of people watched in the 70s and 80s. They did this because there was nothing else to watch!

Fair enough, different times though and kind of suited People then, yes not a lot to look at but think People were happy enough with what they watched, it's easy to look that far back and criticise the past and that seems to go along with what my Mother, Aunt and some others of that generations have told me. Far different times.

Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

RTE content used to be a lot better and so used their presenters, but this is going back a pretty long time now

I think this is very much rose-tinted.

It's amazing to look back on the complete shíte that millions of people watched in the 70s and 80s. They did this because there was nothing else to watch!

TAFKAlawhec

kazoo106 wrote: »

Absolute tripe being spun here regarding DAB and to a lesser extent AM

DAB is a perfectly good medium for radio broadcast, it works and sounds good (128k and above for DAB or 64k and above for DAB+)

AM has its place too - especially for coverage and very suited to speech radio

Both should be retained

The difference is that people in NI (and Britain) are listening to DAB/DAB+ broadcasts. Next to no one is opting to listen to a MW signal of the same station if they can help listening to it from another medium e.g. FM, DAB, online, satellite etc. with the only exception being opt-out programming. When the cost per listener for such stations make it uneconomical for the broadcaster to continue to transmit via a medium, they'll cut their cloth accordingly - not even PSBs are immune to this, and this doesn't just apply to MW & LW stations. Look at the Sky/Freesat (or FTA @ 28.2 East) channels that have in recent months/years decided to go online only and stop "linear", including motorsport.tv, Horse & Country and most recently BET UK. In more familiar turf, most student radio stations are now online only, having given up their low-power MW & FM transmissions (I think University of York Radio is the only one left among higher education level stations), for example Queens Radio from QUB in Belfast went off air from 1134 kHz nearly a decade ago.

Sam Russell wrote: »

DAB or DAB+ has no benefits for Ireland as it provides no extra reach over the existing FM network, no better quality. Receivers are much higher cost then FM receivers, and are clumsy to use, requiring better aerials, and are not suitable for battery powered receivers.

Much of this is now old hat - I bought a new DAB+/FM radio off Amazon before last Christmas for £20. Sure you can buy a pretty crappy FM radio for less than half that price, but new receivers are not that expensive. "Clumsy to use" is subjective (many have presets, otherwise you simply scroll through a list of tuned stations. I've no problem with indoor reception of the three ensembles I can receive at my home here off Brougher Mtn & Strabane, while battery life on receivers currently on sale are much better than their predecesors - the last two DAB+ receivers I bought both run off their own built-in lithium batteries. Not quite the same as analogue radio yet for the time being, but efficency is improving all the time.

As for the conditions that led to the eventual demise of RTÉ's DAB transmissions, ultimately IMO it was never given a proper chance through a combination of RTÉ's half hearted enthuasim, alongside the BAI and the commercial sector having no impetus to see it happen in the country - a case of current stations not wishing to see new competition in the marketplace and the regulator making little change to the audio broadcasting ecosystem over the past 30+ years - the BAI has long struck me as a rather conservative, risk adverse regulator for broadcast radio compared to many of their European counterparts. Political matters in how stations are licenced, content requirements etc. are also a factor. Now maybe the system of commercial radio licencing is actually one that is overall the more beneficial to the country than a more deregulated regime like the UK (though that's a somewhat unfair one given the big difference in size of potential audiences), but there is a train of thought of what it could be...

[Deleted User]

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You're judging content that you never heard or saw.

I see enough RTE TV when in My Mothers and in other People's homes.

I do actually listen to Radio 1 in the car to and from work a lot but that doesn't mean I like it but I would say that it's better than some other stations, of course a lot of the commercial stations are complete rubbish but R1 quality of programming has really slipped.