United Ireland Poll - please vote

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry, but there is always a context to democratic decisions, that doesn't reduce their legitimacy.

How often would they have the threat of war hanging over them from a serial international bully?

Next thing you'll be telling us that the Japanese surrender was the result of thoughtful and considered democracy.

sebdavis

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Carson was a Dub.

That his views may have changed or somebody sought to airbrush him doesn't change what he and others did earlier and its consequences.

Well done on leaping to the defence of somebody you know nothing about by your own admission.

I am struggling to see how a quote from the internet is “leaping to someone defence”. I provided the links I found and the quotes I found, not sure what issue you have with that?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How often would they have the threat of war hanging over them from a serial international bully?

Next thing you'll be telling us that the Japanese surrender was the result of thoughtful and considered democracy.

Given that Japan wasn't a democracy, the answer is no.

blanch152 wrote: »

Given that Japan wasn't a democracy, the answer is no.

Exactly. Neither could we be under threat of immediate and terrible war from a serial bully.

sebdavis wrote: »

I am struggling to see how a quote from the internet is “leaping to someone defence”. I provided the links I found and the quotes I found, not sure what issue you have with that?

Well I am struggling why you doubted the 'Carson' I was talking about and went looking for a quote and found one from the end of his life that had nothing to do with how he conducted his career and was in fact him coming to terms with what is again happening to modern day Unionists...his betrayal by perfidious Albion.

What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Exactly. Neither could we be under threat of immediate and terrible war from a serial bully.

Ah here, you're having a laugh.

Ireland made a democratic decision to accept partition and to be fair to us, we lived up to that democratic decision over the next 100 years. Sure, a small minority of thugs acted otherwise during that time, but we did the right thing as a country.

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah here, you're having a laugh.

Ireland made a democratic decision to accept partition and to be fair to us, we lived up to that democratic decision over the next 100 years. Sure, a small minority of thugs acted otherwise during that time, but we did the right thing as a country.

In democracies you have a choice. We were bullied and a weak Dáil, (soon to be bullied by the church too as we all know to our tragic cost) succumbed to the threat and settled to swap the power between them for most of the next 100 years always subservient to that church. And then they ignored and stood by as the part they abandoned to Unionist sectarian bigots went up in tragic flames.

sebdavis

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well I am struggling why you doubted the 'Carson' I was talking about and went looking for a quote and found one from the end of his life that had nothing to do with how he conducted his career and was in fact him coming to terms with what is again happening to modern day Unionists...his betrayal by perfidious Albion.

What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power

You posted "Carson and Craig", I have no idea who they are so put in "Carson and Craig" into google. First link is Edward Carson. Click on that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carson
Then search "partition"
What do you find?

Shebean

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah here, you're having a laugh.

Ireland made a democratic decision to accept partition and to be fair to us, we lived up to that democratic decision over the next 100 years. Sure, a small minority of thugs acted otherwise during that time, but we did the right thing as a country.

You are abusing the term 'democratic'.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In democracies you have a choice. We were bullied and a weak Dáil, (soon to be bullied by the church too as we all know to our tragic cost) succumbed to the threat and settled to swap the power between them for most of the next 100 years always subservient to that church. And then they ignored and stood by as the part they abandoned to Unionist sectarian bigots went up in tragic flames.

The people we elected made the decision we elected them to make. Ironically, the Church takeover only happened when those that didn't like the original decision got into power.

blanch152 wrote: »

The people we elected made the decision we elected them to make. Ironically, the Church takeover only happened when those that didn't like the original decision got into power.

Under the threat of immediate and terrible war.

You are trying to say it was a normal democratic decision and a normal choice. Hideous position to take as is the handwashing in the second part.

[Deleted User]

The first meeting of the SDLP's New Ireland Commission is taking place today. Some interesting names on the panel and they will be exploring a lot of the issues being discussed on this thread.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Under the threat of immediate and terrible war.

You are trying to say it was a normal democratic decision and a normal choice. Hideous position to take as is the handwashing in the second part.

You are rejecting democracy because you don't like the outcome. Will we hear the same about a border poll if one ever happens and is inevitably soundly defeated? Oh, the people were under threat, na, na, na.

blanch152 wrote: »

You are rejecting democracy because you don't like the outcome. Will we hear the same about a border poll if one ever happens and is inevitably soundly defeated? Oh, the people were under threat, na, na, na.

I think those blathering about 'super majorities and independent NI's' are those with a problem with any outcome of a border poll.

I'll live with the outcome of a Border Poll as I actually read the GFA before I voted for it. And more to the point, I have observed what I agreed to since as well.

Hamsterchops

How long between border polls?

I'm presuming there'll be at least two.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think those blathering about 'super majorities

Retrospective super-majorities no less, and if we're going retrospective then I think the division of the country should be looked at because (despite the British gun to our heads) it was only a slight majority in favour of partition.

See where that line of thinking takes us?

Hamsterchops wrote: »

How long between border polls?

I'm presuming there'll be at least two.

A minimum of seven years.

We've been over this. Repeatedly.

ittakestwo

blanch152 wrote: »

Ireland made a democratic decision to accept partition and to be fair to us, we lived up to that democratic decision over the next 100 years. Sure, a small minority of thugs acted otherwise during that time, but we did the right thing as a country.

We did not make a democratic decision. If every inhabitant of Ireland had a vote in 1921 on Independence it would have gone independent as you well know.

ittakestwo wrote: »

We did not make a democratic decision. If every inhabitant of Ireland had a vote in 1921 on Independence it would have gone independent as you well know.

Can we count 1918 as a proxy referendum?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

I have been reading this report and am a little confused. Much has been made of the 72% who want a border poll within five years. Yet there is much contradictory evidence. When asked do you want a border poll i.e. "Would you like to see a vote on removing the border between north and south?", only 44% say yes.

The follow-up question is "When would you like to see such a vote happen?". Was this asked of all those polled, or only those who indicated "yes" in the previous question? It certainly looks like it was only those who answered "yes" as another strange aspect is that there is no "never" category to that question.

If I am correct, it is only 72% of 44%, i.e. 32% in Northern Ireland who want a border poll within five years.

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

I have been reading this report and am a little confused. Much has been made of the 72% who want a border poll within five years. Yet there is much contradictory evidence. When asked do you want a border poll i.e. "Would you like to see a vote on removing the border between north and south?", only 44% say yes.

The follow-up question is "When would you like to see such a vote happen?". Was this asked of all those polled, or only those who indicated "yes" in the previous question? It certainly looks like it was only those who answered "yes" as another strange aspect is that there is no "never" category to that question.

If I am correct, it is only 72% of 44%, i.e. 32% in Northern Ireland who want a border poll within five years.

You should probably ask those questions of those running the poll.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You should probably ask those questions of those running the poll.

It seems pretty clear to me, it is just the reporting of the poll that is wrong.

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/majority-favour-a-united-ireland-but-just-22pc-would-pay-for-it-40375875.html

I have been reading this report and am a little confused. Much has been made of the 72% who want a border poll within five years. Yet there is much contradictory evidence. When asked do you want a border poll i.e. "Would you like to see a vote on removing the border between north and south?", only 44% say yes.

The follow-up question is "When would you like to see such a vote happen?". Was this asked of all those polled, or only those who indicated "yes" in the previous question? It certainly looks like it was only those who answered "yes" as another strange aspect is that there is no "never" category to that question.

If I am correct, it is only 72% of 44%, i.e. 32% in Northern Ireland who want a border poll within five years.

blanch152 wrote: »

It seems pretty clear to me, it is just the reporting of the poll that is wrong.

You sure?

Marco23d

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah here, you're having a laugh.

Ireland made a democratic decision to accept partition and to be fair to us, we lived up to that democratic decision over the next 100 years. Sure, a small minority of thugs acted otherwise during that time, but we did the right thing as a country.

How could there have been a fair election in this country when the greatest power in the world threatens "immediate and terrible war" if we vote the wrong way.

We didn't "accept" anything it was in the Irish constitution at the end of the Irish free state in 1937 the claim to the ownership of all of Ireland the vote to "accept partition" was a vote saying no to "immediate and terrible war".

Marco23d

The Truth Hurts wrote: »

Why exactly is the poll wrong?

The poll only asked 1,500 people in the Republic and 750 people in the North.

Another poll by Joe.ie asking 5,000 people showed 95% of people in favour of a United Ireland, I would even regard the poll by Joe to be more accurate than that one.

Also the poll was scraped out of somewhere by the Independent.ie the most anti republican newspaper in the Republic of Ireland, they likely only bothered reporting on that poll because they felt it furthered their own political agenda.

Marco23d wrote: »

The poll only asked 1,500 people in the Republic and 750 people in the North and it was also conducted online.

Another poll by Joe.ie asking 5,000 people showed 95% of people in favour of a United Ireland, I would even regard the poll by Joe to be more accurate than that one.

Also the poll was scraped out of somewhere by the Independent.ie the most anti republican newspaper in the Republic of Ireland, they likely only bothered reporting on that poll because they felt it furthered their own political agenda.

This must be the funniest post in years on boards.ie. I can only assume you are having a laugh, as the alternative is that you don't have a clue about polling.