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Taking back the tri-colour

Mr Magnolia

Growing up in the 80s and 90s in a border county very often visiting the North where my mam's family still hail from, the tri-colour had different connotations. Many kerbs were, and still are, blue white and red or green white and orange. Certainly after the ceasefire the tri-colour, to me, has been hi-jacked by subversives.

Do people from other areas of the country feel the same? Should there be some sort of effort to positively promote the flag that I am proud of?

I'd love to fly it from my window at Easter for example but refrain from doing so because of the baggage that's attached and I am of a republican leaning - even to say that has me uneasy about how such a statement could be interpreted...

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Amadan Dubh

coinop wrote: »

Why get so attached to the flag? It was only created about 100 years ago. Ireland as a nation is a lot older than that. Flags change all the time. Look at all the British ex-colonies that changed their flag in the last century. Canada, South Africa, Zimbabwe etc...

We only existed in our current from from 100 years ago, that is a significant period of time. The tricolour represents the Ireland we have become, the Republic, while the North has remained part of the UK meaning for most of us we have no experience of a United North and Republic of Ireland.

Why get so attached to the president? Why get so attached to the name "Ireland"? They are all part of the official emblems of our Irishness which is something we should be proud of not just at home but abroad too. It is not something to be quantified financially but it has an intangible wealth the way many things in life have.

TheBoyConor

Anyone who won't fly the tricolour isn't a republican.

Strumms

I doubt the flag would change... main reason being nobody could agree to what it could be....could be talking for 1916 years... the unionists would want a crown or a union emblem of some sort... i doubt that would go well here... considering... just have to say ' our flag is your flag '

Annasopra

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Growing up in the 80s and 90s in a border county very often visiting the North where my mam's family still hail from, the tri-colour had different connotations. Many kerbs were, and still are, blue white and red or green white and orange. Certainly after the ceasefire the tri-colour, to me, has been hi-jacked by subversives.

Do people from other areas of the country feel the same? Should there be some sort of effort to positively promote the flag that I am proud of?

I'd love to fly it from my window at Easter for example but refrain from doing so because of the baggage that's attached and I am of a republican leaning - even to say that has me uneasy about how such a statement could be interpreted...

Nowadays it has been hijacked by far rights extremists and crazy covid conspiracists.

Annasopra

osarusan wrote: »

I always wonder what the idea is behind the display of flags in private homes/gardens. You see it a lot in the USA, and increasingly (jingoistically?) in the UK.

I mean, what's it for? Who's it aimed at?.

I was thinking this a year ago. There were some people waving the Irish flag as if it was going to magically disappear covid away.

Larbre34

Anyone who is wary of flying a tricolour at Easter should fly it every day, from dawn till dusk. Problem solved.

John_Rambo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Anyone who won't fly the tricolour isn't a republican.

That's a bit ambiguous. Some individuals loyal to the republic will never have reason to hoist, fly or display the tricolour if they're not affiliated to a group that does so. And indeed, if they do it should be done correctly with all etiquette involved. We're not talking hanging a flag from a Benidorm balcony or sports game with some sort of pub's name scrawled across the flag (which should never be done).

There's no forceful reason for anyone to fly the tricolour unless they're in the military or government (and I don't see much refusal) even outside that it should be hoisted, lowered and carried properly.

TheBoyConor

I prefer my tricolours to have some sort of crossed AK47s or fist crushing barbed wire type emblems on it.

John_Rambo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I prefer my tricolours to have some sort of crossed AK47s or fist crushing barbed wire type emblems on it.

:pac:

[Deleted User]

Strumms wrote: »

I doubt the flag would change... main reason being nobody could agree to what it could be....could be talking for 1916 years... the unionists would want a crown or a union emblem of some sort... i doubt that would go well here... considering... just have to say ' our flag is your flag '

Any unionists symbols wouldn't make sense in that case though.. they ain't ever getting back in.

There are already a few all-ireland sports flags that are acceptable if needed. But I'd rather keep the tricolour, considering they still use the 'Butcher's Apron' up north without any consideration to the acts done in its name on this island, it would be pretty hypocritical of them to complain about the use of the tricolour.

[Deleted User]

Annasopra wrote: »

I was thinking this a year ago. There were some people waving the Irish flag as if it was going to magically disappear covid away.

The frantic fear of the rabid far right is a moral panic. Ireland doesn’t have any. And the anti covid marches were just that with people from all walks of life. Albeit mostly younger.

Seanachai

It would prob make some people apoplectic to hear this, but I don't like the tricolour from an aesthetic viewpoint. I much prefer the golden harp lady on a green background flag. Some orange decal could be added for the protestant tradition.

Feisar

Strumms wrote: »

No problem with somebody flying the flag of their country.. for whatever reason they choose .. time to start worrying is the day you can’t... or even people suggesting you shouldn’t..

It just reeks of “try hard”.

Feisar

Strumms wrote: »

I doubt the flag would change... main reason being nobody could agree to what it could be....could be talking for 1916 years... the unionists would want a crown or a union emblem of some sort... i doubt that would go well here... considering... just have to say ' our flag is your flag '

That crowds hate for the tri colour is mad since they are equally represented on it.

TheBoyConor

What about the IRISH REPUBLIC flag of 1916, the one with the words in gaelic script on a green background.

Brussels Sprout

fvp4 wrote: »

The frantic fear of the rabid far right is a moral panic. Ireland doesn’t have any. And the anti covid marches were just that with people from all walks of life. Albeit mostly younger.

Sure we do. They're small and haven't had a whiff of electoral success but they're out there and they're growing and they're hijacking the flag in the same way that the far-right in England have hijacked their flag.

Of course, not everyone who is anti-lockdown is far-right but all of the irish far-right are anti-lockdown.

[Deleted User]

Seanachai wrote: »

It would prob make some people apoplectic to hear this, but I don't like the tricolour from an aesthetic viewpoint. I much prefer the golden harp lady on a green background flag. Some orange decal could be added for the protestant tradition.

Actually quite a few people have said that in this thread. Tricolours are boring.

[Deleted User]

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Sure we do. They're small and haven't had a whiff of electoral success but they're out there and they're growing and they're hijacking the flag in the same way that the far-right in England have hijacked their flag.

Not having electoral success kind of means they don't really exist in any meaningful way. There is literally less moral panic in France where a large right wing nationalist party competes for the first round of the presidency, runs some cities, many towns, and departments. The Popular Party in Madrid, itself originated in fascism, has joined into an alliance with an actual far right party.

Of course, not everyone who is anti-lockdown is far-right but all of the irish far-right are anti-lockdown.

If that is the case then it is because they latched onto it. But I doubt it. The tendency in the Anglosphere is to call all conspiracy theorists, vaccine opposition, and even some anti-war folk as far right.

Brussels Sprout

fvp4 wrote: »

Not having electoral success kind of means they don't really exist in any meaningful way.

That's simply not true. Every political party and political movement has to start somewhere.

The second largest party in the Dail had no TDs 25 years ago and their leader had been banned from appearing on the airwaves before that.

In the 2020 election 3 parties and a bunch of independents ran on far-right platforms. They all lost their deposits. Since then though they've been piggy backing on fears and uncertainty generated by the Pandemic and mobilising around the country. If an election was held tomorrow I wouldn't expect any of them to be elected but I would expect to see a large uptick in their results.

The Dublin Bay South by-election should be an early indicator. Last year the IFP + Renua candidates got a combined 2.2% of the vote. Let's see what that figure is next time.

John_Rambo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What about the IRISH REPUBLIC flag of 1916, the one with the words in gaelic script on a green background.

It's very outdated and looks of it's time, plus text on a flag is difficult to read when in flight and impossible when resting It would be expensive to produce at a high quality with all the stitching and the use of double fabric to avoid wrong reading text on the reverse side. It's a low contrast design, very indistinctive from a distance on the back of a naval ship for example.

Vexillography is the design of flags, there's a really good book called "Good Flag, Bad Flag" by the American Vexillological Association it's goes in to detail regarding vexillography but here are the basics without getting down a whole rabbit hole of design geekiness.

Basics - Keep in mind the physics of a flag in flight when designing a flag
- Simple designs are more easily remembered
- Flags should have distinctive designs that separate them from others
- Designs and trends should be avoided if there is a possibility that they can date quickly

Color - Using fewer colors keeps designs simple and bold
- Contrast is important; use light on dark and dark on light
- Designs should make the edge of a flag be well-defined so as to not get visually lost in the background of where it is flying

Structure - Charges are best placed in the canton, hoist, or center of a design as these are the most visually prominent areas
- Flag designs are usually longer than they are tall
- Having different designs on the obverse and reverse of a flag undermines recognition and increase cost of production

Devices - A single device used in a prominent position ensures recognizability when the flag is in flight or at rest
- When multiple devices are used, different background colors can be used to "anchor" the devices into the overall design
- Devices should be stylized graphical representations as opposed to realistic renderings
Writing on flags is difficult to read in flight; Parade Banners and Military Colors are usually more rigid than normal flags, making text more commonplace on them
- Charges with directionality traditionally face towards the hoist, or flagpole
- Seals, coats of arms, or logos are usually too complex to be used effectively on a flag, although exceptions exist

Symbolism - Symbols should be both distinct and representative
- A flag should represent the totality of any given community as opposed to its individual parts
- A flag should emphasize its own identity over higher-level groupings, otherwise distinctiveness is lost
- Symbolism relating to other entities should only be used if there is a clear, direct relevance
- Designers should avoid representing any particular reference in multiple ways, and instead try to make a single definitive reference

TheBoyConor

Relax JR. It was a tongue in cheek suggestion to get a rise out of the loyalists so no need for chapter and verse of the flag designers handbook.

Jim2007

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What about the IRISH REPUBLIC flag of 1916, the one with the words in gaelic script on a green background.

Or the navy jack:

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Or the President's standard:

Christy42

Jim2007 wrote: »

Or the navy jack:

Or the President's standard:

I like the symbolism of our current flag. White (peace) between Green and Orange sides. Certainly a pipe dream and not what a lot of people use it for but that can't be helped if it is misused. It is a tidy way to represent the message.

Works well for sporting events. I don't see the need to fly it at every opportunity. That feels very much like insecurity. Like randomly shouting "I am smart" in the middle of the street. No one thought you were dumb before but if you have to shout you are smart then many people will assume you are trying to make up for being an idiot. I don't presume people without flags outside hate their country but if someone feels the need to put it front and center I would wonder why they feel the need to defend themselves.

Maybe that is why it is perfect for sporting events, we have a lot to be insecure about there:P.

TheBoyConor

How about we have them all, with daily colour parties at noon. Masks because covid of course

John_Rambo

TheBoyConor wrote: »

How about we have them all, with daily colour parties at noon. Masks because covid of course

The tricolour in that march should be in the front centre position.

whisky_galore

TheBoyConor wrote: »

What about the IRISH REPUBLIC flag of 1916, the one with the words in gaelic script on a green background.

Some gaelgoir is bound to complain it's not in Irish.

John_Rambo

whisky_galore wrote: »

Some gaelgoir is bound to complain it's not in Irish.

We'll gave to have one in Irish and one in English!

Mike Murdock

Ont thing I think we can all agree on if there is ever a United Ireland, Ireland's Call should not be the national anthem.

[Deleted User]

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

That's simply not true. Every political party and political movement has to start somewhere.

The second largest party in the Dail had no TDs 25 years ago and their leader had been banned from appearing on the airwaves before that.

Sinn Fein existed as a party. The NP is the only far right party I can think of and it probably doesn’t get a vote from under 60 year olds.

In the 2020 election 3 parties and a bunch of independents ran on far-right platforms. They all lost their deposits. Since then though they've been piggy backing on fears and uncertainty generated by the Pandemic and mobilising around the country. If an election was held tomorrow I wouldn't expect any of them to be elected but I would expect to see a large uptick in their results.

The Dublin Bay South by-election should be an early indicator. Last year the IFP + Renua candidates got a combined 2.2% of the vote. Let's see what that figure is next time.

Two minor euro sceptic parties going nowhere. The moral panic is about all anti lockdown protests being controlled by far right parties.