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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

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Fann Linn

Relevant point made this evening also that these funds don't pay anything either in CGT etc. Being gifted money by FFG. People are right to be angry.

[Deleted User]

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Do you agree with a house for everyone supplied by the state?

A right to housing.

Nope
I think there should be some sort of shared afordable ownership though after prices are stabilised or dropped
Having a stake in a house means you have an incentive to maintaint it,clean the gutters,a bit of paint now and then etc

Jinglejangle69

Another thing on his article.

How does attracting foreign investors into the country to rent houses and apartments out increase the banks profits like he's suggesting?

Surely that has the opposite affect as less people are taking out mortgages.

Two banks have recently left Ireland as its not profitable enough.

His article doesn't add up.

It's a leftie having a rant at the government. Simple.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

600 likes is defined as trending
Jaysis
Thats not even 2 tenths of 1 per cent of the population
I agree with most of his idealism though
He ran for the senate once

Do you know how Twitter works? It has likes on retweet after retweet after retweet.

[Deleted User]

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you know how Twitter works? It has likes on retweet after retweet after retweet.

I know that but aren't they like attributed to the reposters repost?
I randomly looked at about 10 of the retweeters there with no likes at all
Twitter trending is over bigged
Its a tiny portion of the populus

[Deleted User]

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

It's a leftie having a rant at the government. Simple.

Is he the same Rory hearne that stood for people before profit?

[Deleted User]

Why is this housing issue so hard for Govt to grasp? Is it just purely not wanting to or not wanting to face down the lobby? It seems simple to me, bring down the cost of housing means more mortgages, meaning more profitable banks, more VAT on house contents, etc etc. As long as we stick to the central bank rules there shouldn’t be any issues with credit fuelled bubbles. I just can’t fathom it.
This issue could well bring down the whole coalition and finish FF for good.

Calhoun

howwatermelon wrote: »

Why is this housing issue so hard for Govt to grasp? Is it just purely not wanting to or not wanting to face down the lobby? It seems simple to me, bring down the cost of housing means more mortgages, meaning more profitable banks, more VAT on house contents, etc etc. As long as we stick to the central bank rules there shouldn’t be any issues with credit fuelled bubbles. I just can’t fathom it.
This issue could well bring down the whole coalition and finish FF for good.

Its down to many reasons, some of it greed, some of it incompetence, some of it is due to lack of back bone when it comes to nimbyism.

I dont think it will bring it down right away, FF will not bring it down because they will be slaughtered in an election but realistically it doesnt look like FF learned anything from the last time they were in government.

Fann Linn

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Another thing on his article.

How does attracting foreign investors into the country to rent houses and apartments out increase the banks profits like he's suggesting?

Surely that has the opposite affect as less people are taking out mortgages.

Two banks have recently left Ireland as its not profitable enough.

His article doesn't add up.

It's a leftie having a rant at the government. Simple.

Don't die on that beach JJ.
Even Varadkar & Martin have declared that there is something rotten in the Housing Sector after this weekends carry on. Calling it a rant at government is just daft, get it, at this stage.

Jinglejangle69

Fann Linn wrote: »

Don't die on that beach JJ.
Even Varadkar & Martin have declared that there is something rotten in the Housing Sector after this weekends carry on. Calling it a rant at government is just daft, get it, at this stage.

His article is full of holes.

Another one about how easy it is to evict people in Ireland.

Even though we have the lowest repossessions in the EU.

Banks have left saying how hard it is too evict people.

I'm sorry but once that article is drilled into it shows its just a rant full of plot holes.

Well put together mind you.

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

That's great and all.

But what about solutions?

Or are you just happy to stick it to FG/FF again.

It's rare I click into twitter but from what I can see a lot of people are questioning this article from the point of view it gives the government too much credit that they could plan something like this.

A lazy" but what are the solutions "? Let me ask you a simpler question, are you saying nothing can be done ?

[Deleted User]

I see they're curbing this,thats that then

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0506/1214052-housing-investment-funds/

scrumqueen

Marine Layer wrote: »

I see they're curbing this,thats that then

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0506/1214052-housing-investment-funds/

I'll believe it when I see it.

Aherns article nailed a lot of points for me, but a large part of me just absolutely doesn't credit this Government (or any of the ones we have had in the past 15 years) with having a credible strategy that benefits the investment funds.
If it was actually Government policy, surely it would be written down somewhere and it would definitely have been leaked by now! You couldn't keep something like that a secret in LH for very long.

I think when Noonan went cap in hand to 'Murica they saw him coming, and just took full advantage, then in 2012 the legislation just helped concrete what was already happening?

Cluedo Monopoly

Eamonn Ryan was really weak this morning re Housing and Investment companies. He was dithering throughout. He just kept saying Minister O'Brien needs to bring in legislation to stop it. Ah hello? O'Brien has just published a 'housing plan'. And he knew this legislation was required in 2019 when he submitted his bill. Just embarassing for all concerned. It will anger first time buyers and their parents throughout the country. Idiotic.

FrancieBrady

scrumqueen wrote: »

I'll believe it when I see it.

Aherns article nailed a lot of points for me, but a large part of me just absolutely doesn't credit this Government (or any of the ones we have had iin teh past 15 years) with having a credible strategy that benefits the investment funds.
If it was actually Government policy, surely it would be written down somewhere and it would definitely have been leaked by now! You couldn't keep something like that a secret in LH for very long.

I think when Noonan went cap in hand to 'Murica they saw him coming, and just took full advantage, then in 2012 the legislation just helped concrete what was already happening?

Some of the cats are out of the bag, no doubt about it. I expect the opposition parties to ramp up the pressure now to force change.
'We'll look at it', should not be good enough.

[Deleted User]

Marine Layer wrote: »

Is he the same Rory hearne that stood for people before profit?

He’s a Socialist. Not sure which letter of the alphabet he supports.

BobbyMalone

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan was really weak this morning re Housing and Investment companies. He was dithering throughout. He just kept saying Minister O'Brien needs to bring in legislation to stop it. Ah hello? O'Brien has just published a 'housing plan'. And he knew this legislation was required in 2019 when he submitted his bill. Just embarassing for all concerned. It will anger first time buyers and their parents throughout the country. Idiotic.

Was there not a government minister (perhaps O'Brien?) on Morning Ireland just this week saying that legislation would be fraught with legal challenges? Maybe I was dreaming...

Cluedo Monopoly

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Was there not a government minister (perhaps O'Brien?) on Morning Ireland just this week saying that legislation would be fraught with legal challenges? Maybe I was dreaming...

Not sure. Ryan was saying they would have to change planning laws but he has zero detail (he rarely does).

Interesting to see how many FFG TDs come out backing O'Brien this weekend. They know this is a major vote issue.

Cluedo Monopoly

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

That's the bit I don't get. FG didn't have a majority. So if FF voted for it then it would have had a good chance of getting through.

It's very rare for any party to get a full majority. They did have confidence and supply which eventually led to the FFG coalition and ultimately the end of the Civil War power swap.

But you raise a good point. FF+SF+Labour would have had 74 votes in 2019 so I am not sure what happened to that O'Brien vulture fund bill in 2019. FG had 66 seats. Maybe FG promised to introduce something similar and then never bothered.

[Deleted User]

scrumqueen wrote: »

I'll believe it when I see it.

Aherns article nailed a lot of points for me, but a large part of me just absolutely doesn't credit this Government (or any of the ones we have had iin teh past 15 years) with having a credible strategy that benefits the investment funds.
If it was actually Government policy, surely it would be written down somewhere and it would definitely have been leaked by now! You couldn't keep something like that a secret in LH for very long.

I think when Noonan went cap in hand to 'Murica they saw him coming, and just took full advantage, then in 2012 the legislation just helped concrete what was already happening?

Well obviously they're not callous if they do something about it
They've a majority,so don't have to
Funds buying new estates traditional family homes as opposed to flats was the camels back straw here
Developers won't develop by the way without an acceptable margin
So in those circumstances,2000 shared equity homes is not enough towards those on incomes too low to buy at the going rate
I would not advocate measures that devalue home values

Floppybits

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Was there not a government minister (perhaps O'Brien?) on Morning Ireland just this week saying that legislation would be fraught with legal challenges? Maybe I was dreaming...

Probably not dreaming as this seems to be one of the standard responses from the government handbook to any legislation where they are hesitant to change.

It will be interesting to see if the Labour party do bring back Darragh O'Brien bill from 2019 and to see the response from FFG to this.

Fann Linn

Lorcan Sirr fully explaining how these REITs work. Not a penny in tax do they pay. Some folks on here will probably call him a Socialist however, and not the predominant expert in this subject which he is.
Another FF agreeing with him wholeheartedly on the same show.
Another one for whom the penny has finally dropped for.

Cilldara_2000

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Another thing on his article.

How does attracting foreign investors into the country to rent houses and apartments out increase the banks profits like he's suggesting?

Surely that has the opposite affect as less people are taking out mortgages.

Two banks have recently left Ireland as its not profitable enough.

His article doesn't add up.

It's a leftie having a rant at the government. Simple.

It's relative to its time I think. The state owned banks were giving out ~10% the number of the mortgages they were giving out at the height of the boom. Many of the existing mortgages were in negative equity meaning these state owned banks would be further banjaxed if they had to repossess these homes. Plus central bank rules meant they had to assess their exposure and disclose it.

Pushing up the value of the mortgaged assets removed red flags from the banks' balance sheets - thereby improving them.

But even as a policy in and of itself this failed - they never made it easy for banks to repossess homes because it was and is very difficult politically for obvious historical reasons.

[Deleted User]

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

It's relative to its time I think. The state owned banks were giving out ~10% the number of the mortgages they were giving out at the height of the boom. Many of the existing mortgages were in negative equity meaning these state owned banks would be further banjaxed if they had to repossess these homes. Plus central bank rules meant they had to assess their exposure and disclose it.

Pushing up the value of the mortgaged assets removed red flags from the banks' balance sheets - thereby improving them.

But even as a policy in and of itself this failed - they never made it easy for banks to repossess homes because it was and is very difficult politically for obvious historical reasons.

This is a very valid point

[Deleted User]

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

they never made it easy for banks to repossess homes because it was and is very difficult politically for obvious historical reasons.

This keeps being said and while that is the mood music in rags like the Indo and The Times is it among the general public?

I don't think anyone's social circle is representative of the entire population (I most certainly don't think mine is) but that is definitely not the ethos of my friends/colleagues/acquaintances/family etc.

Would be interested to hear the view of others and their experiences

Cluedo Monopoly

Very very simple question.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1390216456336551938

Why not?

After the event is right. This is so so toxic and it makes zero sense. The opposition will be all over this at GE.Next.

The waffle out of O'Brien - priceless!

[Deleted User]

Very worrying for those people wanting to go on the property ladder that The government are only interested in taking petty pot shots at each other and playing party politics over this most sensitive of issues re investments and cuckoo funds.

FFG are set for massive losses in the upcoming elections with their carry on of supporting and encouraging these vultures with tax breaks and incentives that on the face of it seems extraordinary and crass.

In particular FG are starting to become FF lite with their Celtic tiger style behaviour. We all know where that ended for sure. The same mistakes are been played out like in the late nineties and early naughties. We are sleepwalking into another financial crash I’m certain sooner rather than later. The greens should also take some blame for facilitating this cowboy behaviour from those two right wing parties.

blanch152

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

It's very rare for any party to get a full majority. They did have confidence and supply which eventually led to the FFG coalition and ultimately the end of the Civil War power swap.

But you raise a good point. FF+SF+Labour would have had 74 votes in 2019 so I am not sure what happened to that O'Brien vulture fund bill in 2019. FG had 66 seats. Maybe FG promised to introduce something similar and then never bothered.

It is a really good example of an opposition populist policy that is unworkable in its current form, will get dropped when entering government, but does its job in attracting people to vote for the opposition.

The problem here is how to stop investment funds buying up housing estates, while leaving them free to be professional landlords of apartment blocks that wouldn't be built only for them.

irishproduce

In the news recently there is much Hullabaloo over the fact that "Ordinary buyers, who have to scrimp and save for years for a deposit, cannot compete with these multi-billion-euro funds". Seems to be an issue with the private funds out competing the ordinary middle income Joe and Mary soap.

I'm open to correction here but the same carry on is squeezing the same people from the other side.
The charity housing and spurious immigration sector.

Call the private guys out yes, but don't leave out the fact that the middle income earner is also being squeezed from the other side by different interests. Because as I see it, the ordinary first time buyer equally is not able to compete with the charity/ spurious immigration sector which has deep state pockets.
Equally concerning in my view, even though the outcomes for those concerned may be a little different.

[Deleted User]

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Very very simple question.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1390216456336551938

Why not?

After the event is right. This is so so toxic and it makes zero sense. The opposition will be all over this at GE.Next.

The waffle out of O'Brien - priceless!

Proper order if they are
The bill on the part ownership,is not law yet,so bringing in a ban on vulture funds at committee stage is possible though
Nothing is simple,if you ban foreign companies investing here,you run the risk of quid pro quo happening to irish companies abroad
But its worth it in my opinion