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Waterford University discussion

Sully

Okay, as most of you remember we closed the other University discussion thread because people refused to discuss it without throwing abusive comments at each other, attacking posters and being general idiots. Its been a fair bit of time since then, so it has been agreed to go with attempt #2. This time, no **** will be taken. This is your only warning: Stick to the Waterford City Forum Charter & Boards.ie Rules.

For those who wish to discuss the pros/cons of a university in WIT, you may do so in this thread. Lets have a civil, friendly debate. Not everybody is going to agree/disagree with a University being granted in Waterford - so don't attack them for having a different opinion to yours. Debate their point by all means, just don't go throwing abuse at them for having such an opinion. Attack the Post. NOT the Poster.

Sorry for a serious first post, but after the last discussion, its needed!

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imacman

azimuth17 wrote: »

What's the betting that David Cullinane, Mary Butler, Marc O Cathasaigh and John Cummins all do the same thing? Minister couldn't be bothered to even come to Waterford to explain his position. Crass.

Change "couldn't be bothered" and replace with "is afraid to". He would be asked difficult questions like how can he say on one hand the location of the headquarters is a matter for the board of the TU after the merger and he has no input in that decision.

But he can go on local radio in Wexford and promise them that a 50 million campus post merger. Surely the board of the TU should have the final say on that decision and a cost benefit analysis should be done on whether a large campus in Wexford is financially viable .
But remember nobody is allowed question the "gamechanger" for the south east narrative

Harry Palmr

Mary Butler et al on wlr now. Willie Donnelly has just issued statement

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Mary Butler et al on wlr now. Willie Donnelly has just issued statement

the people want a uni mary, not a yellow pack one!

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the people want a uni mary, not a yellow pack one!

Great point in the News & Star Phoenix column last week. Can’t remember it word for word but along the lines of “are our TD’s representing Waterford’s interests in Dublin or Dublin’s interests in Waterford”. Mary Butler needs to start representing Waterford not the outside interests behind TUSE or on other things for that matter the catholic church, Kilkenny and FF. As far as I am concerned Mary Butler has never represented Waterford in her time as a TD.

friendlyfun

BBM77 wrote: »

Great point in the News & Star Phoenix column last week. Can’t remember it word for word but along the lines of “are our TD’s representing Waterford’s interests in Dublin or Dublin’s interests in Waterford”. Mary Butler needs to start representing Waterford not the outside interests behind TUSE or on other things for that matter the catholic church, Kilkenny and FF. As far as I am concerned Mary Butler has never represented Waterford in her time as a TD.

She probably represents the over 85s or something like that

Wanderer78

mr cummins needs to realise, one of the main reasons for the brain drain is the fact that property and land prices are spiraling out of control, largely due to the functions of the fire sectors(finance, insurance, and real estate), in which his party is playing a significant role in supporting!

this woman is also right, while the above is occurring, we are still experiencing a low wage inflation for most!

SeanieW1977

Why is this question not being asked? If any one here has access to media people we need to start querying it.

Why is a technical university such a “game changer” for waterford & south east when every other city and town in Ireland is getting one? Like Clonmel and thurles?

What differentiates Waterford city from say Athlone or Wexford town?

If it’s one for everyone in the audience how does anyone benefit?

With all this in mind WIT is better off being an award winning IT then a half baked under resourced TU as distinct from a full Uni with access to capital like say UL

blacksuir

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

Why is this question not being asked? If any one here has access to media people we need to start querying it.

Why is a technical university such a “game changer” for waterford & south east when every other city and town in Ireland is getting one? Like Clonmel and thurles?

What differentiates Waterford city from say Athlone or Wexford town?

If it’s one for everyone in the audience how does anyone benefit?

With all this in mind WIT is better off being an award winning IT then a half baked under resourced TU as distinct from a full Uni with access to capital like say UL

True. This Uni that some in the media think will be the greatest thing to hit Waterford since the creation of time are mad.

Waterford had a R.T.C. for a number of years and there was some that wanted it to be upgraded. What did the Government of the day do, they made all R.T.C's into I.T.'s. Now they are to be upgraded again. What Waterford and Carlow are getting will be the same as what Athlone, Tralee, Sligo and other towns across the country will get. It will not be a University.

friendlyfun

Mary Butler saying she's disappointed. Nothing more than a government mouth piece. Worst politician we've ever had I'd say

mayordenis

Wanderer78 wrote: »

mr cummins needs to realise, one of the main reasons for the brain drain is the fact that property and land prices are spiraling out of control, largely due to the functions of the fire sectors(finance, insurance, and real estate), in which his party is playing a significant role in supporting!

this woman is also right, while the above is occurring, we are still experiencing a low wage inflation for most!

House prices in particular are damaged greatly by chronic under-supply. I have no doubt that funds, and the likes of AIRbnb are contributory, but until supply is fixed there will be absolutely zero improvement.

This real land to wage gap widening is true, but it would be untrue to say that it is solely a land issue, the vast majority of costs have gone up in a way that is completely out of kilter with real wage growth. It would also be more accurate to not categorise it as a particularly modern problem as it's probably been out of sync for 30 odd years now.

So, I understand that there has been 1 thing on your mind which is land prices, and we've spoken about it ad-nauseam in the north quays thread, but to say the brain drain is related to Waterford property costs is actually a lie. As someone who's circle of friends live exclusively outside of Waterford now, I can say for certain that not 1 of them left Waterford for Dublin, the Dublin commuter belt, London, SF, LA, or Toronto because Waterford real estate is too costly.

JimWinters

blacksuir wrote: »

What Waterford and Carlow are getting will be the same as what Athlone, Tralee, Sligo and other towns across the country will get. It will not be a University.

But they're telling us we're getting a University of international standing, and there's going to be one in almost every town in the country, isn't it great?!!

It will be far from a university and if they ignore the international panel's recommendations like they did in MTU it will be far from international standing. It's a rebrand on top of a costly merger process that was supposed to reduce the cost of third level education in the country.

It's about time someone said no to the merger, it's just a pity the turnout on the TUI vote was so low.

Wanderer78

mayordenis wrote: »

House prices in particular are damaged greatly by chronic under-supply. I have no doubt that funds, and the likes of AIRbnb are contributory, but until supply is fixed there will be absolutely zero improvement.

This real land to wage gap widening is true, but it would be untrue to say that it is solely a land issue, the vast majority of costs have gone up in a way that is completely out of kilter with real wage growth. It would also be more accurate to not categorise it as a particularly modern problem as it's probably been out of sync for 30 odd years now.

So, I understand that there has been 1 thing on your mind which is land prices, and we've spoken about it ad-nauseam in the north quays thread, but to say the brain drain is related to Waterford property costs is actually a lie. As someone who's circle of friends live exclusively outside of Waterford now, I can say for certain that not 1 of them left Waterford for Dublin, the Dublin commuter belt, London, SF, LA, or Toronto because Waterford real estate is too costly.

yes, the brain drain is due to multiple of factors, but rising property prices is a critical element of it, we re all trapped in the same game, and we all keep defaulting in its solutions, and it just keeps failing. the chronic supply problem is only one major element of this problem, the other being the supply of money into the region, the majority of which comes from the private sector, in the form of credit. developers and businesses primarily use credit to build and to expand their operations, purchaser's of property and land primarily use credit to do so, i.e. credit, credit, credit, credit!

yes, this has been going on for many decades now, and we re still defaulting to the same ways of trying to solve it! its not going to work! property prices have risen by 12% in the last year in the region, most wages, particularly younger generations, have not, this is a serious problem, and will start leading to a brain drain, if not addressed now. yes, neither of us have absolute certainty exactly why each person has left the region, but you can be damn sure, our property situation isnt helping. i know some younger folks, not long graduated, that are now looking else where, as they simply cannot get access to markets, either rental or purchasing, its starting to happen now. folks now in their 20's, are now in serious trouble regarding all of this, i cannot see property prices settling any time soon, as all of this capital moves into the region. under such conditions, as we have learned from the recent past, as demand for property rises, so to does prices, so unless we push for overall wage inflation, these folks may forget about it

imacman

The word is they are going to ignore the vote and push on with the application ( I guess Tom Boland doesn't get paid until it gets submitted).But ignoring a union vote in Waterford has massive consequences, even members who voted for the MOU will see it as thin end of the wedge and if this is allowed pass any vote they have in the future could be ignored. That could lead to a union war with the TUI , the other unions in the college will weigh in behind and the whole process could be suspended .

914

imacman wrote: »

and the whole process could be suspended .

With a bit of luck!

DT saying to John Cummins today, that we will have a TU which is different to a University to which Cummins replied "some people would say that"

If there is no different between a TU and University then why the name TU, I'm actually beginning to think these lads are clueless, it's frightening that they are representing us.

As for Mary Butler, 60 people in the region unhappy with the TU, I have no words

Jamie2k9

David Cullinanes attack on Matt was interesting!

He wouldn't be used backing the Government on this. Hopefully he lines up to take credit if this mess of a TUSE happens and doesn't deliver for the region.

DT missed one big point today by letting the narrative of TUSE last chance for a university city slide. It might be the last chance in this Governments life time.

Bards

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

David Cullinanes attack on Matt was interesting!

He wouldn't be used backing the Government on this. Hopefully he lines up to take credit if this mess of a TUSE happens and doesn't deliver for the region.

DT missed one big point today by letting the narrative of TUSE last chance for a university city slide. It might be the last chance in this Governments life time.

Exactly.. I think David Cullinane is making a big strategic error... He should be demanding equality for the city and region and this TUSE is a fudge and sop to FG and FF...

Full University for Waterford City and a TU for the region.. This would level the playing field.. But he is just going along with the government so no difference or USP there...

Why should I now vote for SF when they are the same as FF FG and Liebour

914

Bards wrote: »

Exactly.. I think David Cullinane is making a big strategic error... He should be demanding equality for the city and region and this TUSE is a fudge and sop to FG and FF...

Full University for Waterford City and a TU for the region.. This would level the playing field.. But he is just going along with the government so no difference or USP there...

Why should I now vote for SF when they are the same as FF FG and Liebour

My thoughts exactly on Cullinane, he now doesn't offer an alternative to FF, FG or Labour.

Why he is going along with this is beyond me, unfortunately some people will see the name university and believe we now have a University and maybe our politician's are playing to those.

I can not think of any other reason.

Every IoT is earmarked for TU status with the exception of Dundalk IT at present but they have launched plans to find a partner.

How the hell does that get us on par with UCC, UL, NUIG, the longer this process goes on the more my blood boils

[Deleted User]

914 wrote: »

My thoughts exactly on Cullinane, he now doesn't offer an alternative to FF, FG or Labour.

Why he is going along with this is beyond me, unfortunately some people will see the name university and believe we now have a University and maybe our politician's are playing to those.

I can not think of any other reason.

Every IoT is earmarked for TU status with the exception of Dundalk IT at present but they have launched plans to find a partner.

How the hell does that get us on par with UCC, UL, NUIG, the longer this process goes on the more my blood boils

In effect they just rebranding the ITs as TUs?

Jesus,what a joke

Harry Palmr

New brass plate but no genuine new money as things stand.

914

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In effect they just rebranding the ITs as TUs?

Jesus,what a joke

Yes that's it but by combining institutes will reduce the higher education budget, now instead of funding both Institutes they now only need to fund one.

If TU's were going to be at the same level as universities we would be hearing from UCC UL DCU etc but there is not a peep from them as they know TUs are not going to be competition for them.

We also constantly here our politician's saying "a TU of international university standard" they seem to ignore the fact that WIT is already operating to international standards.

Very infuriating.

azimuth17

914 wrote: »

My thoughts exactly on Cullinane, he now doesn't offer an alternative to FF, FG or Labour.

Why he is going along with this is beyond me, unfortunately some people will see the name university and believe we now have a University and maybe our politician's are playing to those.

I can not think of any other reason.

Every IoT is earmarked for TU status with the exception of Dundalk IT at present but they have launched plans to find a partner.

How the hell does that get us on par with UCC, UL, NUIG, the longer this process goes on the more my blood boils

Cullinane, Cummins, O'Cathasaigh and Mary Butler are going along with this for simple party political reasons. Two five seat constituencies in Wexford and Carlow/Kilkenny with each party looking for an extra seat. SF may get a second Waterford seat, but a second seat in each of the five seaters remains a distinct possibility for them, that is two extra against one (McGuinness) in Waterford. Therefore, he and SF (and FFGP) will do nothing to rock the TUSE boat. Shanahan is the only one who has expressed doubts about the process. It is almost incredible that Harris has refused to come to Waterford, the city which has looked for university status for 80 years. With David Cullinane and the rest of our party worthies, its party first, second and everywhere, with Waterford last. The TUSE has exposed them all. It is worth while thinking that the second cath lab will be delivered when we have no FG TD after street protests and a sensible independent (our previous attempt was ...) being elected.

SeanieW1977

914 wrote: »

Yes that's it but by combining institutes will reduce the higher education budget, now instead of funding both Institutes they now only need to fund one.

If TU's were going to be at the same level as universities we would be hearing from UCC UL DCU etc but there is not a peep from them as they know TUs are not going to be competition for them.

We also constantly here our politician's saying "a TU of international university standard" they seem to ignore the fact that WIT is already operating to international standards.

Very infuriating.

Sure how would they know! Closest any of them came to getting an education from WIT was driving by it!

Have the FUSE group made a comment? Or are they even on the pitch?

Wanderer78

914 wrote:

Yes that's it but by combining institutes will reduce the higher education budget, now instead of funding both Institutes they now only need to fund one.

Unfortunately, this was actually always the plan, it was always a cost saving measure, both ffg have a history of trying to reduce public expenditure, so here we are.... Its a disgrace really, third level funding has been shredded to pieces over the years

curmudgeonly

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

Sure how would they know! Closest any of them came to getting an education from WIT was driving by it!

Have the FUSE group made a comment? Or are they even on the pitch?

Seanie you really have a horn for FUSE, I posted their last statement which you obviously did not read. This whole cluster is a political decision that has the backing of practically all our political classes at the moment, they do not want to listen and are determined to see this through. There is no stopping them by a voluntary group, FUSE realised that ,said as much and stepped out of the way of a speeding train. They are sensible people not suicide jockeys so give it a rest and find a new bone to chew on in your virtual world.

SeanieW1977

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Seanie you really have a horn for FUSE, I posted their last statement which you obviously did not read. This whole cluster is a political decision that has the backing of practically all our political classes at the moment, they do not want to listen and are determined to see this through. There is no stopping them by a voluntary group, FUSE realised that ,said as much and stepped out of the way of a speeding train. They are sensible people not suicide jockeys so give it a rest and find a new bone to chew on in your virtual world.

I read it a waste of time cheerleading for Matt shanahan. As it appeared it always was.

I don’t have a horn for anything - only what’s best for Waterford and this crowd took up the bandwidth required for a proper lobby group.

Frankly they (& you) got in the way.

I just don’t understand what the point of a this voluntary lobby group that was all guns and bluster at the start full of their own self importance.

Now that the big issues like unions rejecting MOU this lobby group is AWOL.

What was their purpose?

What did the fuse group actually achieve?

What was the purpose of them hopping onto the stage ?

A lobby group set up, came up against adversity and gave up. Sounds like a waste of peoples time & getting peoples hopes up, evidently you had the wrong people in the room either that or are totally Inept and incapable.

Fuse group were as about as much use as a chocolate teapot in all of this.

I have kids who I hope will go to university & this has put a noose around my and their neck for years to come.

In truth fuse was another Matt Shanahan group like the cardiac care one infiltrated and taken over.

Absolute jokers.

SeanieW1977

Malcolm Byrne and Gerard Hurley on.

Byrne didn’t do much bar talk the clock down, the chambers press release was actually decent yesterday, bit of punch in it at least.

Thought mary butler was a disgrace listening back to yesterday morning!

BBM77

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Seanie you really have a horn for FUSE, I posted their last statement which you obviously did not read. This whole cluster is a political decision that has the backing of practically all our political classes at the moment, they do not want to listen and are determined to see this through. There is no stopping them by a voluntary group, FUSE realised that ,said as much and stepped out of the way of a speeding train. They are sensible people not suicide jockeys so give it a rest and find a new bone to chew on in your virtual world.

Sure they knew this at the start. What is the point of setting up the FUSE group to fight for a university then giving up when they were told we are not getting a university? Sure we all know there is strong opposition to WIT becoming a university, we have known this for 80 years. Surly the point of groups like FUSE is to fight against this opposition not bend over because they were told this “the TUSE was the only game in town” nonsense.

WIT needs to pull out of the TUSE process and change the name to University College Waterford. We have given the government long enough to deal with this and they have not.

taytobreath

BBM77 wrote: »

Sure they knew this at the start. What is the point of setting up the FUSE group to fight for a university then giving up when they were told we are not getting a university? Sure we all know there is strong opposition to WIT becoming a university, we have known this for 80 years. Surly the point of groups like FUSE is to fight against this opposition not bend over because they were told this “the TUSE was the only game in town” nonsense.

WIT needs to pull out of the TUSE process and change the name to University College Waterford. We have given the government long enough to deal with this and they have not.

It has a lovely ring to it, doesnt it

I'm here on campus in NUIG and I see the potential that Waterford could have. We certainly dont lack space for new buildings, some of the facilites WIT has are as good as nuig, we have as good a library as here in nuig.

Its shameful whats happening, to be honest I hate reading about it, because it makes me so angry.

SeanieW1977

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40275047.html

The FG boot boys are out in force to ram this down Waterford’s throat.

imacman

It funny to hear all the terms that bandied about by politicians over and over when it comes to the TU , "gamechanger for the southeast" "an university of international standing " "a University City" "Its the only game in town "
The one I would add is "The Emperor has no clothes " Its evident to anybody who looks at this is any detail the TU is best a just a upgrade from an the Institute of Technology , but in no way like a real university . At worst its just a rebrand of the ITs who will operates in exactly the same way as they did up to now excepted as merged entities.