2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

schmittel wrote: »

Nice house - exterior, size, layout, garden but those stairs would have to go.

The stairs looks so out of place. Very strange how’s it’s just shoehorned into the house. It’s like they did all the work renovating and forgot they needed to leave room for the stairs

yagan wrote: »

Doesn't ploughing on with borrowing contradict your appeal for balanced budget?

im advocating for the end of this nonsense of balancing budgets, running deficits is far safer than doing so, we ve become over reliant on the private sector money supply, via credit creation, its now become extremely dangerous

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Full speed ahead with the shared-equity

Shared equity scheme will have 'substantially lower' interest rates than UK equivalent

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40271138.html

the home equity scheme is just pushing up property prices further

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im advocating for the end of this nonsense of balancing budgets, running deficits is far safer than doing so, we ve become over reliant on the private sector money supply, via credit creation, its now become extremely dangerous

the home equity scheme is just pushing up property prices further

Private sector pile into lending to governments too. It's not an either or magic fix.

Our problem is and has always been planning and regulation.

yagan wrote: »

Private sector pile into lending to governments too. It's not an either or magic fix.

Our problem is and has always been planning and regulation.

yes this is true, but we have become over reliant on this private sector monetary system, it is no longer providing us with our needs, it has become parasitic and predatory, hence why i advocate for a public banking system, to provide an alternative to the private sector, in which will give us an element of financial sovereignty. our main issue is with these monetary systems, in which the majority comes from the private sector, in the form of credit

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im advocating for the end of this nonsense of balancing budgets, running deficits is far safer than doing so, we ve become over reliant on the private sector money supply, via credit creation, its now become extremely dangerous

the home equity scheme is just pushing up property prices further

I think the era of deficit spending is near enough coming to an end. The big economies are swiftly moving away from it as they've now found their pot of gold i.e. taxing the companies who previously paid little tax due to locating in low tax countries. Deficit spending can't work long term as it completely distorts the real market price of most things and stops innovation, productivity growth etc.

The primary reason central banks were made independent is because Government's can't be trusted with money and this has been proven in Ireland over the past 5 years. Tens of billions of euro in additional revenue from both the carbon taxes and unforeseen multinational corporation taxes and where did it go? One of the most (if not the most) expensive hospitals in the world, buying/leasing/renting back homes from the funds at a multiple of what they bought them off us several years ago etc. etc.

Someone said years ago that we got very very lucky we never discovered easy oil in Ireland and they were right IMO

enricoh

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Full speed ahead with the shared-equity

Shared equity scheme will have 'substantially lower' interest rates than UK equivalent

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40271138.html

House prices to keep going increasing so. Numbers requiring government funded housing to increase even more so as more people say sod this, I'll have one too!
I think we're beyond help in this country!!

PropQueries wrote: »

I think the era of deficit spending is near enough coming to an end. The big economies are swiftly moving away from it as they've now found their pot of gold i.e. taxing the companies who previously paid little tax due to locating in low tax countries. Deficit spending can't work long term as it completely distorts the real market price of most things and stops innovation, productivity growth etc.

The primary reason central banks were made independent is because Government's can't be trusted with money and this has been proven in Ireland over the past 5 years. Tens of billions of euro in additional revenue from both the carbon taxes and unforeseen multinational corporation taxes and where did it go? One of the most (if not the most) expensive hospitals in the world, buying/leasing/renting back homes from the funds at a multiple of what they bought them off us several years ago etc. etc.

Someone said years ago that we got very very lucky we never discovered easy oil in Ireland and they were right IMO

we have to move on from this false thinking, deficits are the money supply, they are the public entity of the money supply, credit is the private sector entity of the money supply, traditionally the majority, and clearly obviously the most dangerous, i.e. 08 crash! deficit spending is clearly far more safer, it should be used to stimulate economies, in particular the private sector. by leaving the private sector create the majority of the money supply, all its doing is inflating asset prices, in particular property and land. the graph below shows exactly this, exactly what caused the 08 crash, i.e. over reliance on the credit supply, and and under reliance on the public money supply, i.e. deficits

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes this is true, but we have become over reliant on this private sector monetary system

The one that needed us to bail it out?

Again the problem has been domestic vested interests driving planning decisions against our collective interests.

Listen the Healy Rae, the TD with the most rental properties crow on about "da poor ordinary simple folk" and it's not hard to see that there's a domestic class of our own who think nothing of selling off another generation for short term profit.

We had Fianna Fail go from boasting about the cheapest bailout in history to saying "it was the EU wot made us done it", and to add insult to injury their current leader had the brass neck to recently claim that there was never a bank bailout, an assertion that he was forced to correct in the Dail record.

It's not the financial fault if we allowed AirBnb to completely distort the rental market. It was government that dragged its knuckles in responding to what everyone knew to be an unregulated market distortion.

yagan wrote: »

The one that needed us to bail it out?

Again the problem has been domestic vested interests driving planning decisions against our collective interests.

Listen the Healy Rae, the TD with the most rental properties crow on about "da poor ordinary simple folk" and it's not hard to see that there's a domestic class of our own who think nothing of selling off another generation for short term profit.

We had Fianna Fail go from boasting about the cheapest bailout in history to saying "it was the EU wot made us done it", and to add insult to injury their current leader had the brass neck to recently claim that there was never a bank bailout, an assertion that he was forced to correct in the Dail record.

It's not the financial fault if we allowed AirBnb to completely distort the rental market. It was government that dragged its knuckles in responding to what everyone knew to be an unregulated market distortion.

yes, this money ultimately came from the private sector, but it came in the form of credit, i.e. the debt sat on the private sector balance sheets, we need to stop this, as we re defaulting to it again, the new debts ultimately need to sit on the public balance sheets going forward, that means running continual deficits

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes, this money ultimately came from the private sector, but it came in the form of credit, i.e. the debt sat on the private sector balance sheets, we need to stop this, as we re defaulting to it again, the new debts ultimately need to sit on the public balance sheets going forward, that means running continual deficits

Does it?

We've seen sovereign wealth funds like Norway and Singapore pile into the private sector when it had surplus to societies needs.

Singapore has 80% public housing but that was a policy decision. Our problems can't be laid on finance as the fault has always been squarely on policy priority putting short term profit for vested interests ahead of basic long term housing needs.

I can see how Irish governments were never held to account for that short termism when emigration was also accepted policy.

Blaming the financial systems for us not regulating them is like blaming the pot for boiling over when we weren't watching.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we have to move on from this false thinking, deficits are the money supply, they are the public entity of the money supply, credit is the private sector entity of the money supply, traditionally the majority, and clearly obviously the most dangerous, i.e. 08 crash! deficit spending is clearly far more safer, it should be used to stimulate economies, in particular the private sector. by leaving the private sector create the majority of the money supply, all its doing is inflating asset prices, in particular property and land. the graph below shows exactly this, exactly what caused the 08 crash, i.e. over reliance on the credit supply, and and under reliance on the public money supply, i.e. deficits

I don't believe it is false thinking. But even if it is, the decisions have already been made but have yet to be communicated clearly to the public. Both the United States and many of the EU countries are now for ending the printing of money and getting back to how real economies should operate.

Deficit spending is out, collecting taxes to fund state spending is in. Unfortunately for Ireland, we have noone left to tax to fund, what I believe, will be a minimum gap of c. €10 billion every year going forward.

I calculate this from the reported potential €6 billion yearly loss from the global tax reforms, an additional €2 billion each year for health (i.e. 10% on top of the 2019 health budget) and other increasing costs e.g. pensions, lack of economic growth as the state is forced to pull back on spending on capital projects etc.

Unlike the big economies, we don't have the pot of gold that they have (i.e. taxing multinationals) and given that our closest ally (i.e. the UK) is out of the EU, we have noone left to defend our interests IMO

In fact, we're actually making enemies in the EU by throwing insults at them with Michael McGrath stating earlier this month that "The Minister for Public Expenditure has urged EU critics to lay off Ireland’s corporate tax strategy, putting their negativity down to envy."

Link to article on Michael McGrath here: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mcgrath-says-eu-countries-are-jealous-of-irelands-tax-success-40263021.html

PropQueries wrote: »

I don't believe it is false thinking. But even if it is, the decisions have already been made but have yet to be communicated clearly to the public. Both the United States and many of the EU countries are now for ending the printing of money and getting back to how real economies should operate.

Deficit spending is out, collecting taxes to fund state spending is in. Unfortunately for Ireland, we have noone left to tax to fund, what I believe, will be a minimum gap of c. €10 billion every year going forward.

I calculate this from the reported potential €6 billion yearly loss from the global tax reforms, an additional €2 billion each year for health (i.e. 10% on top of the 2019 health budget) and other increasing costs e.g. pensions, lack of economic growth as the state is forced to pull back on spending on capital projects etc.

Unlike the big economies, we don't have the pot of gold that they have (i.e. taxing multinationals) and given that our closest ally (i.e. the UK) is out of the EU, we have noone left to defend our interests IMO

In fact, we're actually making enemies in the EU by throwing insults at them with Michael McGrath stating earlier this month that "The Minister for Public Expenditure has urged EU critics to lay off Ireland’s corporate tax strategy, putting their negativity down to envy."

Link to article on Michael McGrath here: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mcgrath-says-eu-countries-are-jealous-of-irelands-tax-success-40263021.html

...so what about America, and its 2 trillion stimulus??????????

deficits are they only way to go, or else..........

again, we need to stop with this nonsense of pots of gold, as governments arent like house holds, as governments have the ability to create money, we do this via deficit spending and arguably public banking systems, hence America and its 2 trillion!

its important to remember, most politicians, including ones mentioned, are neoclassically trained and advised, neoclassical economics has a refusal to accept these facts, even after the acknowledgement from respected central banks

yagan wrote: »

Does it?

We've seen sovereign wealth funds like Norway and Singapore pile into the private sector when it had surplus to societies needs.

Singapore has 80% public housing but that was a policy decision. Our problems can't be laid on finance as the fault has always been squarely on policy priority putting short term profit for vested interests ahead of basic long term housing needs.

I can see how Irish governments were never held to account for that short termism when emigration was also accepted policy.

Blaming the financial systems for us not regulating them is like blaming the pot for boiling over when we weren't watching.

the blame is ultimately between the state and the private sector, in particular the fire sectors(finance, insurance, and real estate), i.e. its a dual fault, all based on myths and false hoods, and dangerous ones at that. theres been an astonishing amount of research into all of this since 08, from respected sources, and it doesnt seem like many are listening

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the blame is ultimately between the state and the private sector, in particular the fire sectors(finance, insurance, and real estate), i.e. its a dual fault, all based on myths and false hoods, and dangerous ones at that. theres been an astonishing amount of research into all of this since 08, from respected sources, and it doesnt seem like many are listening

Does the voter not deserve some blame for constantly voting in parties that perpetuate the short term profit policies?

yagan wrote: »

Does the voter not deserve some blame for constantly voting in parties that perpetuate the short term profit policies?

i guess you could say so, but very few actually truly understand these complexities, and you d have to wonder, does anyone, fully, i certainly dont!

yagan wrote: »

Does the voter not deserve some blame for constantly voting in parties that perpetuate the short term profit policies?

Yep, voters but also all politicians, in government or opposition, for being so inept.

Look at what is in government and then look at the rest. How can the likes of Sinn Fein drop in opinion polls with the carry on and performance of the current government. I suspect some of it is because people start to educate themselves as to the alternatives and soon realise what they “offer”

mcsean2163

PropQueries wrote: »

I don't believe it is false thinking. But even if it is, the decisions have already been made but have yet to be communicated clearly to the public. Both the United States and many of the EU countries are now for ending the printing of money and getting back to how real economies should operate.

Deficit spending is out, collecting taxes to fund state spending is in. Unfortunately for Ireland, we have noone left to tax to fund, what I believe, will be a minimum gap of c. €10 billion every year going forward.

I calculate this from the reported potential €6 billion yearly loss from the global tax reforms, an additional €2 billion each year for health (i.e. 10% on top of the 2019 health budget) and other increasing costs e.g. pensions, lack of economic growth as the state is forced to pull back on spending on capital projects etc.

Unlike the big economies, we don't have the pot of gold that they have (i.e. taxing multinationals) and given that our closest ally (i.e. the UK) is out of the EU, we have noone left to defend our interests IMO

In fact, we're actually making enemies in the EU by throwing insults at them with Michael McGrath stating earlier this month that "The Minister for Public Expenditure has urged EU critics to lay off Ireland’s corporate tax strategy, putting their negativity down to envy."

Link to article on Michael McGrath here: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mcgrath-says-eu-countries-are-jealous-of-irelands-tax-success-40263021.html

Date of article April 1st.

Timing belt

PropQueries wrote: »

I don't believe it is false thinking. But even if it is, the decisions have already been made but have yet to be communicated clearly to the public. Both the United States and many of the EU countries are now for ending the printing of money and getting back to how real economies should operate.

Deficit spending is out, collecting taxes to fund state spending is in. Unfortunately for Ireland, we have noone left to tax to fund, what I believe, will be a minimum gap of c. €10 billion every year going forward.

I calculate this from the reported potential €6 billion yearly loss from the global tax reforms, an additional €2 billion each year for health (i.e. 10% on top of the 2019 health budget) and other increasing costs e.g. pensions, lack of economic growth as the state is forced to pull back on spending on capital projects etc.

Unlike the big economies, we don't have the pot of gold that they have (i.e. taxing multinationals) and given that our closest ally (i.e. the UK) is out of the EU, we have noone left to defend our interests IMO

In fact, we're actually making enemies in the EU by throwing insults at them with Michael McGrath stating earlier this month that "The Minister for Public Expenditure has urged EU critics to lay off Ireland’s corporate tax strategy, putting their negativity down to envy."

Link to article on Michael McGrath here: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/mcgrath-says-eu-countries-are-jealous-of-irelands-tax-success-40263021.html

How has the US stopped printing money? Are the fed not actively buying bonds and undertaking QE?

Timing belt wrote: »

How has the US stopped printing money? Are the fed not actively buying bonds and undertaking QE?

As I stated above, deficit spending is out, collecting taxes to fund state spending is in. They found their pot of gold and they're closing down the low tax countries permanently. We should have been prepared. We aren't and now we will all pay heavily as there's no way out of this outside of permanent austerity IMO

In the Financial Times today, the head of the Bundesbank said the following:

"There can be no lack of determination, even if rising interest rates increase countries borrowing costs. This is important for the credibility of monetary policy."

Basically, our free ride is now coming to an end and it will be much sooner than most people expect and before we can get our house in order IMO.

Link to FT article here: https://www.ft.com/content/c587dd18-29d4-4ad4-9362-6b7ab94ba2dd

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/kyle-beag-landenstown-sallins-naas-co-kildare/4456203

My mate sent me this as he is relocating back to Ireland for work. Anyone know anything about Sallins area? While the inside is pretty nice the exterior is just bizarre looking. “Architecturally designed”??

hometruths

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/kyle-beag-landenstown-sallins-naas-co-kildare/4456203

My mate sent me this as he is relocating back to Ireland for work. Anyone know anything about Sallins area? While the inside is pretty nice the exterior is just bizarre looking. “Architecturally designed”??

Always amuses me when EAs attempt to make a selling point out of the fact a house has been designed by an architect, as if this is unusual.

They're obviously a cut above all the houses designed by fishmongers.

awec

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/kyle-beag-landenstown-sallins-naas-co-kildare/4456203

My mate sent me this as he is relocating back to Ireland for work. Anyone know anything about Sallins area? While the inside is pretty nice the exterior is just bizarre looking. “Architecturally designed”??

The design of this house is appalling.

schmittel wrote: »

Always amuses me when EAs attempt to make a selling point out of the fact a house has been designed by an architect, as if this is unusual.

They're obviously a cut above all the houses designed by fishmongers.

“Unique facade” is 1 way of putting it

PropQueries wrote:

As I stated above, deficit spending is out, collecting taxes to fund state spending is in. They found their pot of gold and they're closing down the low tax countries permanently. We should have been prepared. We aren't and now we will all pay heavily as there's no way out of this outside of permanent austerity IMO

Again, please explain americas 2 trillion stimulus? Once again, austerity means reducing the public entity of the money supply, I.e. Deficit spending, pushing the need to expand the money supply back into the private sector, via credit creation, as per the graph supplied earlier, so what is the likely outcome if this occurs?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/mount-vernon-411-clontarf-road-clontarf-dublin-3/4417332

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Again, please explain americas 2 trillion stimulus? Once again, austerity means reducing the public entity of the money supply, I.e. Deficit spending, pushing the need to expand the money supply back into the private sector, via credit creation, as per the graph supplied earlier, so what is the likely outcome if this occurs?

Basically, we and the other low-tax/tax-haven countries in the world will be paying for Biden's infrastructure plan. According to the WSJ:

"The infrastructure plan would cost roughly $2.3 trillion over eight years and be paid for over 15 years by raising the corporate tax rate to 28% from 21% and increasing taxes on companies’ foreign earnings. The tax changes would revamp or replace much of the international tax structure congressional Republicans established four years ago in the law signed by then-President Donald Trump."

Link to WSJ article here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-set-to-unveil-2-trillion-infrastructure-plan-11617181208

Cyrus

this is a strange one, you own part of the sea, across the road

hometruths

Cyrus wrote: »

this is a strange one, you own part of the sea, across the road

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/mount-vernon-411-clontarf-road-clontarf-dublin-3/4417332

No idea re its value, but I like that house a lot.