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Boards' traveller problem

dulpit

Something has been annoying me more and more over the last few months regarding boards. It seems that across a wider and wider portion of the site, people feel free to make sweeping anti traveller stereotypes with no real repercussions. AH and Current affairs forums have them all the time, and the post would need to be pretty egregious to have some sort of warning applied.

What's worse is that it's now across the site. I've seen comments in places like the radio forum, and today there was a thread about somebody who witnessed a car hit another car and drive away, it took maybe 5 posts for somebody to suggest it was travellers.

Why is this tolerated? I can understand the moderators can only do so much, but I still think its not being called out for what it is, racism/bigotry. If you replaced traveller with any other community/race it would attract site bans all the time, but apparently travellers are still largely fair game here.

This has been creeping across the site over the last few years and it's making the site less enjoyable to use. I have no idea what can be done about it, but it would be interesting to see if the mods and/or boards itself have any sort of insights here?

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JustAThought

anewme wrote: »

There is no confusion.

I clearly said on my post here that the posts I reported under GDPR were deleted.

Laughing at dead peoples homes is at best dickish behaviour, no? Certainly up there in my view (another reason why definitions are needed)

The report I'm referring to refers to a different home, posting the address and insinuating that it was a travellers home and the contents were obtained by dishonest means.

The posts claiming that the contents of that home were obtained off the back of a truck or because someone else is missing their contents remain on the thread.

The residents of that home have done nothing more than offer their home for sale. They dont deserve to be ridiculed and labelled thieves because they dont share the same interior design tastes as you.

Thats probably not the reason they’re being labelled tbh.

anewme

JustAThought wrote: »

Thats probably not the reason they’re being labelled tbh.

Posting photos of a random persons home without any other information and assuming the owners are thieves because they are travellers (due to their furnishings) is obvious racism at its most basic.

Doublebusy

Seen it myself in the threads i post
Not a great job by the mods imo
"yes im aware I can report posts if i want"
Its embarrassing some of the stuff that's posted
Negative comments towards other races are dealt with more harsh - should be equal

PeadarCo

anewme wrote: »

You keep using the unpaid volunteers line. The responsibility for this site does not rest with its unpaid volunteers. No one is asking unpaid Volunteers to justify their actions, they are asking for the beneficial owners to take responsibility.

Not a disrespect to volunteers, but Boards.ie is a Commercial entity and with that comes responsibility for Boards Management and owners.

I'll use your own feedback as an example here.

I believe by sharing photos of someones home and insinuating that they are thieves or dishonest because their home looks like a "traveller chic" home is racism and discrimination at its most basic, yet you deem it ok as its followed by a passive agressive smiley face.

You do understand that without the unpaid volunteers this site would be very unlikely to exist. Boards is reasonably well moderated, and very well moderated when compared to most Internet discussion sites of its scope ie Twitter and Facebook.

Boards maybe a commercial entity but it's not an exactly profitable entity(its not Facebook or Google) given how few full time staff actually run/maintain it. So it does come back to unpaid volunteers as on a day to day basis as they moderate the site. On some of the more contraversial forums I imagine it's an absolutely thankless job. Any changes you want have to be workable from their point of view as Boards will probably never be in a postion(never profitable enough) to be able to employee full time mods.

knucklehead6

anewme wrote: »

Posting photos of a random persons home without any other information and assuming the owners are thieves because they are travellers (due to their furnishings) is obvious racism at its most basic.

You’re being a little bit disingenuous here. It’s not as if people’s houses have been broken into and photos taken for laughs. The photos are quotes from property for sale websites, such as daft and myhome. I’ve never sold a house so I don’t know if the vendor gets to approve the photos the agent puts up but I’d assume that if the vendor had an issue the pictures would be removed.

[Deleted User]

knucklehead6 wrote: »

You’re being a little bit disingenuous here. It’s not as if people’s houses have been broken into and photos taken for laughs. The photos are quotes from property for sale websites, such as daft and myhome. I’ve never sold a house so I don’t know if the vendor gets to approve the photos the agent puts up but I’d assume that if the vendor had an issue the pictures would be removed.

Noone has an issue with the pics being shown?

Just that people openly insinuating they are from a travellers house and therefore stuff in the pics must be stolen.

Like lads can say it all they want ,but factually speaking,if people were to broadbrush any other ethnicity/grouping with sterotypes/slurs for lols the posts would be actioned againest.......it seems obvious to me anyway,that this group
is treated different,either let such posting againest all groups(or none)

knucklehead6

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Noone has an issue with the pics being shown?

Just that people openly insinuating they are from a travellers house and therefore stuff in the pics must be stolen.

Like lads can say it all they want ,but factually speaking,if people were to broadbrush any other ethnicity/grouping with sterotypes/slurs for lols the posts would be actioned againest.......it seems obvious to me anyway,that this group
is treated different,either let such posting againest all groups(or none)

Then report the posts. Let the mods do what they do. Just don’t demand that the mods justify the call that they make to satisfy your curiosity

[Deleted User]

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Then report the posts. Let the mods do what they do. Just don’t demand that the mods justify the call that they make to satisfy your curiosity

Mate,its no skin off my nose.....just seems obvious to me,people say stuff about travellers that they wouldnt dream about saying on any other grouping

To my eyes the lesson to infer from this,is obvious

anewme

PeadarCo wrote: »

You do understand that without the unpaid volunteers this site would be very unlikely to exist. Boards is reasonably well moderated, and very well moderated when compared to most Internet discussion sites of its scope ie Twitter and Facebook.

Boards maybe a commercial entity but it's not an exactly profitable entity(its not Facebook or Google) given how few full time staff actually run/maintain it. So it does come back to unpaid volunteers as on a day to day basis as they moderate the site. On some of the more contraversial forums I imagine it's an absolutely thankless job. Any changes you want have to be workable from their point of view as Boards will probably never be in a postion(never profitable enough) to be able to employee full time mods.

I'm not saying the Mods do a bad job at all and Im sure it is a thankless job. Mod said above thousands of posts a day, cant be expected to read every post.

I'm saying that unpaid volunteers should not be used an excuse for tolerating racism/sexism etc.

Boards business model and the qualitative standards is one for the owners.

knucklehead6

anewme wrote: »

I'm not saying the Mods do a bad job at all and Im sure it is a thankless job. Mod said above thousands of posts a day, cant be expected to read every post.

I'm saying that unpaid volunteers should not be used an excuse for tolerating racism/sexism etc.

Boards business model and the qualitative standards is one for the owners.

They DON’T tolerate it. When it’s reported it’s dealt with.
But you have asked for a report on how YOUR reported posts are handled. That’s an even bigger timesink than Reggie Mc ReRegerson, re-regger at large.

anewme

knucklehead6 wrote: »

You’re being a little bit disingenuous here. It’s not as if people’s houses have been broken into and photos taken for laughs. The photos are quotes from property for sale websites, such as daft and myhome. I’ve never sold a house so I don’t know if the vendor gets to approve the photos the agent puts up but I’d assume that if the vendor had an issue the pictures would be removed.

I'm not being disingenuous at all.

The photos taken are for the purpose of selling the house and not for the purpose that they are being used in the example I gave.

Posting photos of someones home and address and laughing at their taste is dickish at best (in my opinion).

Making derogatory remarks or Insinuating that the contents of that home were obtained dishonestly purely because that house has been deemed a travellers home by Boards users is traveller bashing and an example of what the OP is talking about here.

anewme

knucklehead6 wrote: »

They DON’T tolerate it. When it’s reported it’s dealt with.
But you have asked for a report on how YOUR reported posts are handled. That’s an even bigger timesink than Reggie Mc ReRegerson, re-regger at large.

I gave a clear example of traveller bashing posts that were not dealt with.

Posting photos of someones home and saying they are travellers obtained the contents dishonestly can be nothing other than traveller bashing.

Mods asked for examples of traveller bashing threads that were not dealt with. I gave a clear example.

I'm giving that feedback to the Mods, by the way, not you.

knucklehead6

anewme wrote: »

I gave a clear example of traveller bashing posts that were not dealt with.

So either the mod decided not to action them, or hasn’t got around to them.

Just because you decide something is a clear example doesn’t mean that the mod dealing with it does.

dulpit

Just to be clear to respond to comments, I have definitely reported traveller comments in threads that I'd be more involved in. The threads that appear in AH or current affairs I tend to ignore.

And I don't expect any specific actions from individual mods here, but I do think the issue needs to be acknowledged by boards as an entity. I mean, there's people in this thread trying to justify this anyway.

One thing that isn't clear to me is whether or not there's a standard set of actions that are imposed for specific transgressions. If somebody says something or does something that could be viewed as racist, defamatory, abusive, etc - is it up to the individual mod to decide on course of action? Or is it forum specific? Or do boards have some rules that should be followed?

anewme

knucklehead6 wrote: »

So either the mod decided not to action them, or hasn’t got around to them.

Just because you decide something is a clear example doesn’t mean that the mod dealing with it does.

That's why people are asking for more transparency.

Insinuating someone is a thief based on nothing more than a photo of their home is a serious allegation to make and should be treated accordingly.

knucklehead6

anewme wrote: »

That's why people are asking for more transparency.

Insinuating someone is a thief based on nothing more than a photo of their home is a serious allegation to make and should be treated accordingly.

It’s interesting to see how people’s perspectives differ and can change over time. I remember a thread from a good while back where you were seriously intolerant of travellers, and traveller behaviour.

anewme

dulpit wrote: »

Just to be clear to respond to comments, I have definitely reported traveller comments in threads that I'd be more involved in. The threads that appear in AH or current affairs I tend to ignore.

And I don't expect any specific actions from individual mods here, but I do think the issue needs to be acknowledged by boards as an entity. I mean, there's people in this thread trying to justify this anyway.

One thing that isn't clear to me is whether or not there's a standard set of actions that are imposed for specific transgressions. If somebody says something or does something that could be viewed as racist, defamatory, abusive, etc - is it up to the individual mod to decide on course of action? Or is it forum specific? Or do boards have some rules that should be followed?

People have been asking for a more specific charter similar to what you are asking here.

I do believe it is required also and have given the same feedback on numerous occassions.

I've given examples here of what I would see being racist or dickish comments, but as you say that can be open to people's own interpretation or the Mods.

Given the size of the site, I accept it is not possible to have calibration across the site, however a base standard would be a start and would help Mods and Posters.

I believe the small cohort referenced here dont want the status quo to change and are doing their best to pile on people advocating change and silence them. This has been raised at Mod level too.

[Deleted User]

This is the second feedback thread in a week where one or two posters are permaposting demanding that the site reflect only those opinions they approve of, without regard to the function of a message board such as boards to reflect to the fullest practicable level a diversity of comment that falls short of the strictest definition of prohibited or undesirable speech.

That line will never be subject to full agreement, and for a poster or a minority of posters to demand it again and again is imo not fair engagement with what boards is or should be.

The tone they feel entitled to take towards moderators is, if i can say it, beyond the pale entirely.

Ive had my bumps with mods and will again, but if someone pipes up constantly to opine what boards should be, they should back it up by giving real world examples of a comparable site that manages to meet that standard (and answer the obvious question- why arent you there instead?)

The concerted move towards intolerance of a blurred line (and thats what interactions with people who dont agree with you on everything are going to be) isnt anything that mods or boards should or can treat as actionable feedback imo

[Deleted User]

Beasty wrote: »

We simply cannot review every post - we have thousands every day in the 2 main forums I have responsibility for

Why don't you be more proactive an report stuff? Whenever I see a thread like this I trawl back through reports for examples of the issue being raised, but I cannot see any from you over the past 16 months relating to threads in which travellers have been discussed

In fairness, there's a fair few posters that are still active on the site that regularly post atrocious and nasty views. They get disciplined but continue to do so. It's as if they continue to get in trouble but somehow avoid an absolute ban. Eg I can think of a poster who called for refugees on boats to be gunned down. They got disciplined and continue to get away with pretty dodgy posts including on travellers.

It's pretty clear that there's some level of tolerance for some awful stuff at this point. There just seems to be denial of the fact.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In fairness, there's a fair few posters that are still active on the site that regularly post atrocious and nasty views. They get disciplined but continue to do so. It's as if they continue to get in trouble but somehow avoid an absolute ban. Eg I can think of a poster who called for refugees on boats to be gunned down. They got disciplined and continue to get away with pretty dodgy posts including on travellers.

It's pretty clear that there's some level of tolerance for some awful stuff at this point. There just seems to be denial of the fact.

For clarity's sake, i fully agree with this too. Not everything is fair comment and there are definitely repeat offenders who seem to enjoy a longer career than you'd like.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's pretty clear that there's some level of tolerance for some awful stuff at this point. There just seems to be denial of the fact.

I think this is a fair observation,i dont understand the pushback and attempts by mods to trip people up,for pointing out the bloody obvious

nullzero

I find that any intolerance is typically well dealt with on this site.

It comes back to reporting posts. Make yourself vocal through the report system.

Boards much like life in general features people and opinions we don't all agree with and there does appear to be a concerted effort from a small number of people to create a space where only their views are tolerated which does a disservice to the platform as a whole..

Again, report posts you find offensive. You'll find the reports are listened to.

Hotblack Desiato

anewme wrote: »

Posting photos of someones home and address and laughing at their taste is dickish at best (in my opinion).

Feel free to not read it then. :rolleyes:

But I hadn't seen that thread, so thanks, it's a great thread

Leg End Reject

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Noone has an issue with the pics being shown?

Just that people openly insinuating they are from a travellers house and therefore stuff in the pics must be stolen.

Like lads can say it all they want ,but factually speaking,if people were to broadbrush any other ethnicity/grouping with sterotypes/slurs for lols the posts would be actioned againest.......it seems obvious to me anyway,that this group
is treated different,either let such posting againest all groups(or none)

Comments are made about all the houses posted, and most of them are negative.

By your logic, I could argue it would be discrimination not to comment on traveller's houses. Some of the comments on that house were also posted before the RIP notice, mine included.

I'm sure most of us are aware that our own houses would receive negative comments if posted because we all have different tastes and opinions on what makes a house a home. You can see on the thread that some will love one house, while others hate it.

However, new money, gangland types and travellers all tend to have their own recognisable taste and that is commented on in a lighthearted way. Some may view it as anything but lighthearted, but again that's down to the individual and their mindset.

anewme

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Feel free to not read it then. :rolleyes:

But I hadn't seen that thread, so thanks, it's a great thread

Telling people not to read something is not what giving feedback is about.

nullzero

anewme wrote: »

Telling people not to read something is not what giving feedback is about.

Creating a situation where you can have every discussion go your way is not what a site like this is about.

If an opinion is offensive and or wrong it is self evident, countering those opinions is what a Web forum is all about. Remove the opposition and you remove the fun and the site becomes redundant.

[Deleted User]

nullzero wrote: »

Creating a situation where you can have every discussion go your way is not what a site like this is about.

If an opinion is offensive and or wrong it is self evident, countering those opinions is what a Web forum is all about. Remove the opposition and you remove the fun and the site becomes redundant.

There is a concerted attempt on this site by a certain cohort to stifle debate of content they find objectionable. Orwell had his finger on the pulse nearly a century ago. The very nature of boards is to champion a diversity of opinion, it is enlightening to observe two opposing positions for a broader worldview. Removing one because it is contrary to a poster's belief system is the antithesis of a democracy and for all intents and purposes embracing a dictatorship. Sporting the Helen Lovejoy garb and starting peppering the feedback thread with thinly veiled "why can't everybody think like me" prattle isn't conducive to constructive debate. The mods by and large are doing an admirable job of keeping the boards ethos alive, and long may a platform of open-mindedness persevere.

[Deleted User]

But sure you could say the same about multiple subjects / groups.

Gardai, British, muslim.

All regularly dragged through the mud and half the time in threads that area biting to do with them or not their fault

[Deleted User]

anewme wrote: »

Telling people not to read something is not what giving feedback is about.

Telling people what they can post is not what debate is about

anewme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Telling people what they can post is not what debate is about

No one is telling them what they can post.

They are asking for clarity on what the guidelines are.

This is not a debate thread. It’s a feedback thread.
Telling people not to read threads that are racist is censorship itself and not feedback.