Minnesota officer shoots dead another innocent black victim

tayto lover wrote: »

So he had a criminal record??
Isn’t that the surprise.
I wondered why he resisted arrest and jumped back into the car but now I see he had previous form. A violent criminal no less.
The slight bit of sympathy I had for him has now eroded.
Victim me arse. What about his victims?

Justice is blind.

Should you deserve more or less justice in any given situation because of the outcome of justice in an unrelated situation? Why?

BorneTobyWilde

Looked like a total accident, a complete fc k up on behalf of the officer. Her shock and dismay was instant '' of fcuk I shot him''
I'm sure she is devastated by it, she didn't set out to kill anyone, unlike Chauvin who assassinated George Floyd ,

tayto lover

Overheal wrote: »

Justice is blind.

Should you deserve more or less justice in any given situation because of the outcome of justice in an unrelated situation? Why?

Your past comes back to haunt you.
Nothing criminal or violent is “unrelated”.
Being an apologist for his sort is blind.

Student_111 wrote: »

No problem. I never said it diminished their responsibility. In fact I explicitly stated she should be charged. But neither do I think his death is a loss to society. There's nothing inconsistent there.

Their no longer committing crimes, I suppose, would not be a net loss to society, but that is not to say that his death is not a loss to society. Every death in the hands of police is a loss to society, we lose our due process. Furthermore, when people celebrate such deaths (some even encouraging more of this sort of thing) it's a loss to our rights, leading to people, some exemplified on here, that suggest that it is your onus as a member of society to be scared literally to death of the police who protect and serve you, lest you dare 'act suspicious' in the wrong place or time, that you shouldn't question your law enforcement lest you be shot and killed.

tayto lover wrote: »

Your past comes back to haunt you.
Nothing criminal or violent is “unrelated”.
Being an apologist for his sort is blind.

Justice is blind.

Overheal wrote: »

Had mentioned GF in #325, which I assumed you were later responding to with your "On a separate point"

I thought your GF was just a typo for DW - thought it would be petty to correct it.
I said "separate point" as a way to illustrate that I can simultaneously believe that the cop was wrong and should face charges, and believe that the scumbag in a sense got when he deserved ultimately (though not justified).

Student_111 wrote: »

I thought your GF was just a typo for DW - thought it would be petty to correct it.
I said "separate point" as a way to illustrate that I can simultaneously believe that the cop was wrong and should face charges, and believe that the scumbag in a sense got when he deserved ultimately (though not justified).

Sure Jan.

You must have an awfully queer keyboard layout.

Overheal wrote: »

Their no longer committing crimes, I suppose, would not be a net loss to society, but that is not to say that his death is not a loss to society. Every death in the hands of police is a loss to society, we lose our due process. Furthermore, when people celebrate such deaths (some even encouraging more of this sort of thing) it's a loss to our rights, leading to people, some exemplified on here, that suggest that it is your onus as a member of society to be scared literally to death of the police who protect and serve you, lest you dare 'act suspicious' in the wrong place or time, that you shouldn't question your law enforcement lest you be shot and killed.

Agree 100%. He shouldn't have been shot.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

Nonsense.

Something has to change.

I'll agree if you can prove unequivocally that this person was purposefully shot because of their skin colour alone.

Overheal wrote: »

Sure Jan.

You must have an awfully queer keyboard layout.

I genuinely just thought you got the initials wrong. Do you seriously still think I was talking about George Floyd while linking articles about Wright holding a woman at gunpoint? Come on mate - I hadn't mention GF even once.

Student_111 wrote: »

I genuinely just thought you got the initials wrong. Do you seriously still think I was talking about George Floyd while linking articles about Wright holding a woman at gunpoint? Come on mate - I hadn't mention GF even once.

As I said, I had already brought it up as part of our conversation, without uproar. #325.

Overheal wrote: »

As I said, I had already brought it up as part of our conversation, without uproar. #325.

Well I wasn't referring to him in any of my posts.

Overheal wrote: »

You're trying very hard to ignorate yourself there.

Police budgets have all inflated over the years - except in the area of training, which has remained flat as a share of the budget. That's a crucial problem.

By all means happy to see if you have data showing that training has kept pace with the bloating of police budgets.

another simple question you are unable and or unwilling to answer ,

same attitude different thread

BorneTobyWilde

Overheal wrote: »

Assassinate?

Totally. Killed him deliberately

tayto lover

Overheal wrote: »

Justice is blind.

There’s more than Justice blind.

Fandymo

Overheal wrote: »

Neither are yours.

Again, I've never heard of the white community having to take responsibility for some random criminal based off their skin color. Why is it only the blacks that must do so? Why is their burden of responsibility so broad?

You’ve never heard of loyalists calling for calm in their communities?? Or republicans telling fellow republicans to cease hostilities in their area??

wicklowstevo wrote: »

another simple question you are unable and or unwilling to answer ,

same attitude different thread

It's like trying to reason with a 5 year old talking to him (Overheal) sometimes.

Overheal wrote: »

Which criminal am I responsible for now? I haven't been told I need to police my own white community etc. yet this is what happens to blacks.

ha ha called out on your BS statement by a load of posters and that's the best you can do ?

I m responsible for myself as it should be but not so for every one

White people are blamed for black on black crime , black on Asian and black on white crime,

what you claim happens to blacks happens at a much greater rate statistically (as posted multiple times on multiple threads ) to whites and other races but you choose victim hood over personal responsibility and let it drag black people backwards rather than forward,

Potential-Monke

Seems like a mistake to me, and not the first time it has happened in the US. Going by this recent article, it has happened 9 times since 2001. The article explains it can happen due to a number of reasons:

Reasons cited include officer training, the way they carry their weapons and the pressure of dangerous, chaotic situations. To avoid confusion, officers typically carry their stun guns on their weak sides — or their nondominant hand — and away from handguns that are carried on the side of their strong arms. This is the case in Brooklyn Center, where Gannon, the police chief, said officers are trained to carry a handgun on their dominant side and their stun gun on their weak side.

Bill Lewinski, an expert on police psychology and founder of the Force Science Institute in Mankato, Minnesota, has used the phrase “slip and capture” errors to describe the phenomenon. Lewinski, who has testified on behalf of police, has said officers sometimes perform the direct opposite of their intended actions under stress — their actions “slip” and are “captured” by a stronger response. He notes that officers train far more often on drawing and firing their handguns than they do on their stun guns.

If you look at this without prejudice, the reasons are, well, reasonable. And with the current climate regarding police stops in America, especially in that city/area, it would be extremely stressful to be involved in a normal stop and have it escalate into the suspect (which the cops would know has previous) suddenly tries to get free and into their car. Any normal, sane cop would rightly believe they may be going for a gun. In Ireland, we really don't understand how easily and quickly a standard stop can turn into a shootout. Plenty of videos on YT showing that.

I believe her when she says it was an accident, the calls of tazer, the immediate response from her, it doesn't happen and sound like an intentional shooting. Not excusing it in the slightest, she will have to live with what she did, and again going by the article she will most likely be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and face 2-6 years (I reckon 2, it's very clear cut to me). Someone with 26 years experience wouldn't just randomly decide to shoot a black man. It just doesn't add up, coupled with the bodycam footage.

It's terrible, and shouldn't have happened, but it's nothing like the Floyd case and doesn't excuse the rioting (nothing does - damaging peoples property and businesses even though they've nothing to do with it, makes no sense).

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Totally. Killed him deliberately

That still far from satisfies the definition even if he was motivated to kill him during the arrest.

wicklowstevo wrote: »

ha ha called out on your BS statement by a load of posters and that's the best you can do ?

I m responsible for myself as it should be but not so for every one

White people are blamed for black on black crime , black on Asian and black on white crime,

what you claim happens to blacks happens at a much greater rate statistically (as posted multiple times on multiple threads ) to whites and other races but you choose victim hood over personal responsibility and let it drag black people backwards rather than forward,

Please show this greater rate.

SexBobomb

silverharp wrote: »

this is mad, comedian Sam Hyde predicted something like this happening back in March :eek:

https://twitter.com/HungryBandaid/status/1381667599692480515

https://youtu.be/a3_PPdjD6mg
He cant keep getting away with it !!

Overheal wrote: »

Please show this greater rate.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

there you are , go nuts , the internet is full of statistics and to be honest your not worth doing research for or feeding with attention

Andrewf20

The way I see it is the police have become so paranoid of getting shot themselves that the adrenaline is in the red on most traffic pull overs, often causing complete overreaction by the officers. All thanks to the 2nd amendment.

10000maniacs

Fandymo wrote: »

More white people than black people get shot yearly by the police. Are they racist against white people?

African Americans make up 13% of the population in the USA. So in order for your point to wash, there would need to be 6 times more Caucasian people shot by the police. Yet the figure is only 1 African American person for 1.89 Caucasian's.
You need better material buddy.

wicklowstevo wrote: »

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

there you are , go nuts , the internet is full of statistics and to be honest your not worth doing research for or feeding with attention

Thanks, that just establishes my point, and doesn't show your rate claim.

2020, deaths by police, whites: 457. 44.7% of total (1,021). Whites are 76.3% of the population.

2020, blacks: 241. 23.6% of total. 13.4% of population.

That math clearly demonstrates that blacks are killed at a rate far higher than whites are killed per capita. It's not rocket surgery.

2019, crimes, whites, 7,014,550. 69.5% of net arrests*. 76.3% of population.
2019, crimes, whites, 2,667,010. 26.4% of net arrests*. 13.4% of population.

*arrests are not convictions. All you've shown is blacks are more likely to be arrested, not convicted of crimes.

Potential-Monke

Andrewf20 wrote: »

The way I see it is the police have become so paranoid of getting shot themselves that the adrenaline is in the red on most traffic pull overs, often causing complete overreaction by the officers. All thanks to the 2nd amendment.

Boom. This. Exactly.

10000maniacs wrote: »

African Americans make up 13% of the population in the USA. So in order for your point to wash, there would need to be 6 times more Caucasian people shot by the police. Yet the figure is only 1 African American person for 1.89 Caucasian's.
You need better material buddy.

I checked for stats on white vs black crime, and I've no idea how accurate the results I got were, but they're on the OJJDP from the Department of Justice, so I'd say accurate enough.

I filtered to adults only, and white people commit a lot more crime in 22 of the 24 categories, but black people commit more Murder/non-negligent manslaughter and robberies. I then googled how many robberies involve firearms. In 2019, there were 101k strong arm robberies (no weapon), 82k with a firearm, ~43k with other weapons (~20k with knives). So around 40% chance the robbery call will have a firearm involved. And a slightly higher chance the suspect is black. This could possibly add to the explanation that a higher number of black people are involved in cop related shootings. Plus the chance of a call to a murder/manslaughter type is far more likely to involve a firearm.

Statista Robberies
Statista Homicide

10000maniacs wrote: »

African Americans make up 13% of the population in the USA. So in order for your point to wash, there would need to be 6 times more Caucasian people shot by the police. Yet the figure is only 1 African American person for 1.89 Caucasian's.
You need better material buddy.

Indeed, if race wasn't a factor in police killings, 7 in 10 police victims would be white as they are 7 in 10 of the population.

Overheal wrote: »

Indeed, if race wasn't a factor in police killings, 7 in 10 police victims would be white as they are 7 in 10 of the population.

are 7 out of then violent criminals white ?