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Minnesota officer shoots dead another innocent black victim

10000maniacs

They really can't help themselves killing black people can they?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/12/us/brooklyn-center-minnesota-police-shooting/index.html

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nolivesmatter

Overheal wrote: »

Again, if you cannot distinguish between racism and implicit bias you will have a difficult time understanding what I have said. The vast majority of professionals are not 'racists,' they don't mutter racial epithets under their breath, they don't attend Klan meetings or similar. But virtually everyone adopts implicit biases, it's practically inescapable. Even if you're a black woman, you will have implicit preconceived notions of how a black male may react in a given situation. In much the same way many comments on here range from assuming so and so suspect is likely a 'gangbanger' etc. or how if a brown assailant commits a mass shooting it's almost certainly terrorism but if a white male does it it's 'obviously' going to be an incelibate lone wolf type, or more innocuous biases such as asians being proficient at mathematics or irish being prone to alcoholism.

Assuming that to be the case here, what implicit preconceived notion of how a black male may react do you think the officer had and why?

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

Tragic incident end of story.

Nonsense.

Something has to change.

yourdeadwright

Overheal wrote: »

Weird of you to stray off topic in favor of ad hominems.

Where oh where did I say "everyone is racist?"

Do you know the difference between racism and implicit bias? If you do, then you understand that the race of the attending physician is far from the primary factor. Blacks can be implicitly biased against blacks for instance.

The guy i mentioned was white and shot twice on purposes dor less than Mr Wright he was just lucky he survived,
Mr Wright was shot once by mistake and was unfortunate to die

Yes you mentioned that the ER would take a white man on there table more serious than a black man clearly implying they are racist

Bizarre comments from you, the make no sense, implying people who work in ER are racist and sont try to save blacl people,

Your out look makes me think you yourself can not see past people skin color so believe everyone else must be the same,

Absolute bizzare out look on life

Mr Wright incident was not about race and

nullzero

Tragic incident end of story.

tayto lover

Overheal wrote: »

Enough to kill him.

Ariel Roman is alive and well.

You were the one who was talking about people being shot multiple times yet this lad was only shot once. She must have been psychic to know that one round would kill him then.
It was an unfortunate accident.

You are spouting some drivel on here.

[Deleted User]

Overheal wrote: »

snip

Thanks. We're not worlds apart on this then. I agree with the bulk of what you've said.

We may however differ on the extent "implict bias" plays into this and other cases. Also, I think oftentimes (not all the time) stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. You may call it racism or implicit bias to be more afraid of encountering a 19 year old black man than a 80 year old white woman down a dark alley on the streets of Chicago - but the crime statistics would unfortunately make this rational and legitimate in my view.

Gradius

I think a lot of people forget how randomly violent the United States can be.

I was looking through some numbers and crunching a few things, interesting.

This year, so far, I make it out to be roughly 45 per million chance of dying as a police officer due to "assault". Can't break down these numbers to race, simply not reported.

The odds are approximately 9 per million, so far this year, of dying due to police if you are black american.

The violence is everywhere and every time you stop a car you don't know what the hell is waiting for you. So, it's a fearful, very much "take no chance" job for police.

If I was a cop, especially in a known bad area/situation, if you behave in any kind of strange or suspicious way you better believe you're a hare's breath away from getting shot dead.

And that's the United States for you.

bewareofthedog

Overheal wrote: »

In much the same way many comments on here range from assuming so and so suspect is likely a 'gangbanger' etc.

I'm sure the gun he was unlawfully carrying had absolutely nothing to do with crime. Also when he ran from officers last June it was just a big misunderstanding, just like when he tried to drive off a few days ago.

Overheal

Again, if you cannot distinguish between racism and implicit bias you will have a difficult time understanding what I have said. The vast majority of professionals are not 'racists,' they don't mutter racial epithets under their breath, they don't attend Klan meetings or similar. But virtually everyone adopts implicit biases, it's practically inescapable. Even if you're a black woman, you will have implicit preconceived notions of how a black male may react in a given situation. In much the same way many comments on here range from assuming so and so suspect is likely a 'gangbanger' etc. or how if a brown assailant commits a mass shooting it's almost certainly terrorism but if a white male does it it's 'obviously' going to be an incelibate lone wolf type, or more innocuous biases such as asians being proficient at mathematics or irish being prone to alcoholism.

Clearly she mistook the gun for the taser and followed reasonable departmental procedures to call out 'taser taser taser' before discharge - but it shouldn't have happened, is designed not to happen, and a possible explanation for this is a lapse in composure likely brought on by the perceived threat of the suspect, a black male. Just my 2c. The sudden escalation would have caught anyone by surprise though. I'm moreover surprised that they failed to cuff him, up to that point he was reasonably compliant before making a split second decision to capitalize on an opening. It is not my belief he posed a risk of life to the officers and was just going to drive off (pursuit being it's own intangible and theoretical matter here). It's not as if in this case she emptied a clip at him, it appeared to be a single shot, as you would a taser. Taser deployment would have been sensible in the situation, yes.

I don't believe the officer will face a conviction and I don't feel that steep penalties are justified here anyway, I simply wonder about how race bias could have played a role in the interaction. In fairness to the officers he did not appear mistreated before he started fleeing.

[Deleted User]

Overheal - curious about your opinion on a couple of things relating to this case. Leaving aside your opinion on racism in general in the US:

1. Do you think the discharge by the police woman was deliberate, or do you think she did mistake her gun for a taser?
2. Do you think there is racism on her part here? Would she not have done the same had the victim been white?
3. Do you think pulling a taser on someone in this situation (resisting arrest and attempting to drive away with an outstanding warrent for firearm possession) is justified?

My answers to the above:
1. It was a mistake; I don't believe she premeditated it - which would have to be the case, as she was saying it was a taser at the time. It wasn't just an excuse after the fact. I do think she deserves to be punished for this however, as it is negligent/incompetent.
2. There is no evidence of racism IN THIS CASE.
3. Using a taser in the circumstances would have been justified.

Thanks.

Overheal

bewareofthedog wrote: »

Build robots to replace the police and get rid of the human error.

What could go wrong?

Must be taking the piss to imply the murder of Freddie Gray was 'human error.' None of the officers involved were acquitted by a jury.

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

I suppose if he valued his life he should have just gone along and gotten the Freddie Gray treatment? Let's dispel the notion that compliance with police results in your guaranteed survival.

Nothing in life is guaranteed but if he had functioned like a normal person that time he would likely be alive, same as thousands who interact with the police each day in America.

If he valued his life he wouldn't have acted as such, no doubt he wanted to avoid jail but he'd have been out in a few years.

I'm presuming by his movements that he was a bit baked at the time.

He was unfortunate 8n that he was likely high, no value on his life and met a cop who in a panic drew right, instead of left.

Human nature.

Overheal

The officer and the Chief of Police have both resigned.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/breaking-minnesota-police-officer-who-shot-daunte-wright-resigns/

Tell me how

This is off topic, but also, I think very relevant.

The officer who shot Daunte Wright has resigned, as has the Brooklyn Centre police chief. And the officer who pepper sprayed an active military member at Christmas after responding to the soldiers announcement that he was scared for his life with 'and you should be' was fired in the last few days when the video footage of the incident became available publicly. It's an all too familiar story, something happens, it's attempted to be protect the police first, and then, when it is deemed that there is too much heat, the officer is cut loose before likely facing criminal and/or civil proceedings and in the case of civil proceedings, such as George Floyds family's case against the Minneapolis police force, money comes out of public funds to pay for it leading to budget shortfalls elsewhere.

The fact that there is no shortage of police committing acts of violent up to and including fatal levels of such just shows where America is at. Other threads quite active on Boards at the moment about US gun control, individual shooting acts whether my members of the police or by civilians and the BLM protests all point to the same thing, the US conservative ideals that have driven policy in these areas for decades has not worked and putting more guns, more poorly trained over equipped police on the street is throwing good money after bad.

America has 4% of worlds population, 20% of the worlds incarcerated people and far and away the highest level of gun violence in developed countries.
Thoughts and Prayers, arming the 'good guys', telling people 'it's easy, just comply', claiming the sanctity of the second amendment, even focusing on 'was it racist' or otherwise, is all just detracting from the reality of the situation. they have a cancer in their society and that cancer is the availability and willingness to use guns and to make sure to get your retaliation in first.

There's been a lot of discussion here on whether it was a specifically racist attack or not and some using evidence of white people being shot by police to show that they are not racist. There can still be racism (I believe a predisposition to target and suspect black people in particular ways is rooted in a prejudiced view against them which can still be rooted in racism even if there isn't use of the N word or a KKK membership badge), there can still be idiots who try to abscond, there can still be people who talk about government overreach and infringement of rights but these things exist in every country, but, while in Ireland or many other countries we talk about this and refer to someone on either side of the argument as a p*ick or bully or whatever, the video footage which emerges from such incidents (aside from very rare events) are most often showing a halfhearted foot chase for 50 yards or something. Meanwhile, in the US, guns (the fear of and access to) literally raise tensions exponentially in a fraction of a minute and then we end up going down the path of trying to justify it, see someone convicted for it or whatever, while all the time people are either grieving, traumatized, injured or dead.

I mentioned conservative ideals above and I stand by this statement, their position on gun control is well known (recent shootings in Colorado and Tennessee were noteworthy in Republican led legislators having passed laws to make it easier to carry guns publicly in the case of Tennessee, or defeated a law aimed to restrict access to guns in the case of Colorado just a week before each event. They clearly are definitively on the 'Back the Blue' side on the BLM debate and Senator Tom Cotton recently announced his view that America has an under-incarceration problem. I'm not suggesting that Democrat's have all the answers, I'm not suggesting that Democrats are blameless or that all of them are against access to guns, but, in the polarized environment that is American politics, GOP influence on the above or their views on how to make society safer should take a seat for the foreseeable future. It ain't working.

So, for those of a conservative mindset here (and don't tell me they don't exist, I see the same posters on threads on these topics (and others) where they are espousing the conservative position just as much as I'm sure you feel you see me arguing the case from a Dem standpoint), if you were President of America for 1 year, with a GOP leading Senate and House, what bill would you bring to the houses with a view to reducing the sense of fear and violence which is so common for so many in the country today.

bewareofthedog

Overheal wrote: »

I suppose if he valued his life he should have just gone along and gotten the Freddie Gray treatment? Let's dispel the notion that compliance with police results in your guaranteed survival.

Build robots to replace the police and get rid of the human error.

What could go wrong?

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

Standard 2 fold approach.

1. I looked at his actions prior to his demise.
2. I contacted Charlie Haughey in hell, got him to get Dwaune to the phone and confirmed it.

I suppose if he valued his life he should have just gone along and gotten the Freddie Gray treatment? Let's dispel the notion that compliance with police results in your guaranteed survival. Just obey police instructions and everything will be f-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

Danzy

Overheal wrote: »

Is that your expert assessment or did you interview him in purgatory?

Standard 2 fold approach.

1. I looked at his actions prior to his demise.
2. I contacted Charlie Haughey in hell, got him to get Dwaune to the phone and confirmed it.

Fandymo

Overheal wrote: »

If the claim about ER staff is "incredible" to you, it only speaks to your lack of awareness about implicit bias in medicine, not to my pulling things out of my hat.

I don’t think it’s your hat most people think that you pulled it from.

Overheal

twowheelsonly wrote: »

No matter how you dress it up, black, white, asian or martian, events like this are still out of the ordinary in the general scheme of things, in particular given the high rate of both legal and illegal gun ownership in the US.

From the Bureau Of Justice Statistics:

Given those figures, the number of Police / Public encounters that actually end in violence and particularly death is miniscule. Given your claim that the Police (and incredibly ER staff !!) are so biased then surely the figures could and should be higher. The number of non violent / shooting related cases would also suggest that your tax dollars are not doing too badly.

Further to your claim about the anti-black bias:

If the claim about ER staff is "incredible" to you, it only speaks to your lack of awareness about implicit bias in medicine, not to my pulling things out of my hat.

It is your claim, not anyone else's here, that implicit bias must 'surely' result in higher instances of violent police encounter than we see. I'm not sure I see the relevance, we aren't discussing nonviolent interactions with police, we are discussing interactions which result in a death. That's like dismissing a discussion about seatbelt safety by citing the rate of blown out tyres. It bears virtually no correlation. All you've added is that these lethal encounters are rare overall. However, among these rare circumstances, blacks find themselves dead in them at a rate >3x that of their white contemporaries.

Overheal

Danzy wrote: »

It's a pity that Wright didn't have any value on his own life.

Is that your expert assessment or did you interview him in purgatory?

twowheelsonly

Overheal wrote: »

This fallible thinking inexorably leads to 'police can never be at fault because the victim has always done something to attract the attention of the officer'

Worry less about blaming the dead victim and concentrate more on why we keep seeing this groundhog day. My taxpayer dollars train police officers, not suspects.

No matter how you dress it up, black, white, asian or martian, events like this are still out of the ordinary in the general scheme of things, in particular given the high rate of both legal and illegal gun ownership in the US.

From the Bureau Of Justice Statistics:

In the prior 12 months, as of 2018, among persons age 16 or older—

About 61.5 million residents had at least one contact with police.

Given those figures, the number of Police / Public encounters that actually end in violence and particularly death is miniscule. Given your claim that the Police (and incredibly ER staff !!) are so biased then surely the figures could and should be higher. The number of non violent / shooting related cases would also suggest that your tax dollars are not doing too badly.

Further to your claim about the anti-black bias:

Published by Statista Research Department, Mar 31, 2021:
Sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 213 civilians having been shot, 30 of whom were Black, in the first three months of 2021.

Danzy

Student_111 wrote: »

But you cared enough to take the time to write a comment. Odd.

A few words on boards may be all Wright's life was worth to that poster. It's not like a comment shows one cares or not.

It's a pity that Wright didn't have any value on his own life.

It certainly strikes a chord here with people who think they went to Sweet Valley High.

Monkey arris

biko wrote: »

Again, I was merely trying to keep the discussion on this particular case but I am not a mod here so can't make you do anything, nor do I want to.

So here is a quite inrelated video of very clear racism for you all. Racism is not a one-way street.

https://twitter.com/ChanceTyColeman/status/1381690703332397058?s=20

I was responding to a comment on how being polite and not fleeing the scene means you are in no danger. I don't believe a Chris Rock sketch is closer to the thread title. My clip was actually a Minnesota cop shooting a black man as the thread states.

[Deleted User]

Overheal wrote: »

And you were 'off'

I was... that was half an hour ago. Time is a funny thing.

Overheal

Student_111 wrote: »

But you cared enough to take the time to write a comment. Odd.

And you were 'off'

[Deleted User]

Bad Boyo wrote: »

*man dies in foreign country

Gonna file this in the 'don't care folder'.

But you cared enough to take the time to write a comment. Odd.

[Deleted User]

God almighty. Enough bull crap from the US.

Overheal

Student_111 wrote: »

Haha I actually laughed out loud. In other words, you can't explain it. Have a good day now, I'm off.

Can't explain what? You are accusing me of implying something, yet you can't seem to explain what that implication is.

[Deleted User]

Overheal wrote: »

I don't have to explain anything to you. The conversation has already played out. If you need more expanation go and re-read it, if you are looking for more innuendos in my speech ask about them here I guess https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Haha I actually laughed out loud. In other words, you can't explain it. Have a good day now, I'm off.

Overheal

Student_111 wrote: »

Then explain your statement. What were you implying?

I don't have to explain anything to you. The conversation has already played out. If you need more explanation go and re-read it, if you are looking for more innuendos in my speech ask about them here I guess https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576