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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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deezell

Clareman wrote: »

I've the tado thermostat installed now, have to say I'm a bit surprised that it's battery powered rather than taking the power from the wall as it has to be wired anyway.

The wiring to a mechanical thermostat is generally only switched live from the old timer, no neutral wire, so you would need an additional neutral wire in order to complete a circuit to draw power for the stat. Unless you already had powered electronic stat or a mechanical stat with status lamps, its unlikely that a neutral wire would be present in the wall plate or box of the old stat. This would severely limit the use of the Tado aa a direct replacement for a vast number of existing wall stat installations. The battery cost is trivial, half a €2 6-pack of alkaline AAA from Eurogiant lasts a year.

Clareman

deezell wrote: »

The wiring to a mechanical thermostat is generally only switched live from the old timer, no neutral wire, so you would need an additional neutral wire in order to complete a circuit to draw power for the stat. Unless you already had powered electronic stat or a mechanical stat with status lamps, its unlikely that a neutral wire would be present in the wall plate or box of the old stat. This would severely limit the use of the Tado aa a direct replacement for a vast number of existing wall stat installations. The battery cost is trivial, half a €2 6-pack of alkaline AAA from Eurogiant lasts a year.

I suppose I was lucky to already have the neutral, batteries don't bother me I got a load of cheap rechargeables a few years ago that I use for everything

deezell

Clareman wrote: »

I suppose I was lucky to already have the neutral, batteries don't bother me I got a load of cheap rechargeables a few years ago that I use for everything

Tado won't like rechargeables, it will keep giving battery end of life warnings. This is because NiCad or NiMh rechargeable batteries have only 1.2 volts per cell, 3.6 for three in series. This is in comparison to alkaline at 1.5, 4.5 in series. The stat will assume the batteries are almost flat, and drive you mad with messages.

deezell

Pack of these will last two years. 75c year. No need to buy premium alkalines, quadruple the price for minimal extra life. These are as good as any. Same goes for AA in the TRVs.

Clareman

Every day is a school day, many thanks again

cubix

Can I add on a Tado query:

At the moment we have condensing gas boiler with 3 zones MV in the HP (2heat & 1HW), house never had wall stats. Was going to fit a standard 3CH EPH and add some form of a gateway so it could be controlled from a smartphone etc.

I like the idea of fitting the Tado Internet bridge and smart TRV's to replace my bog standard TRV's and the fact you can control individual rooms on top of the zoned MV . In this case do I need to purchase the tado smart wall stats. If so do these stats need cables or are they wireless.

grogi

deezell wrote: »

Tado won't like rechargeables, it will keep giving battery end of life warnings. This is because NiCad or NiMh rechargeable batteries have only 1.2 volts per cell, 3.6 for three in series. This is in comparison to alkaline at 1.5, 4.5 in series. The stat will assume the batteries are almost flat, and drive you mad with messages.

Newer Tado devices are aware of the rechargables and will not bother one unnecessary.

championc

cubix wrote: »

Can I add on a Tado query:

At the moment we have condensing gas boiler with 3 zones MV in the HP (2heat & 1HW), house never had wall stats. Was going to fit a standard 3CH EPH and add some form of a gateway so it could be controlled from a smartphone etc.

I like the idea of fitting the Tado Internet bridge and smart TRV's to replace my bog standard TRV's and the fact you can control individual rooms on top of the zoned MV . In this case do I need to purchase the tado smart wall stats. If so do these stats need cables or are they wireless.

A Smart Thermostat can be wired or wireless. If wireless, you need the Extension Kit, but an Extension Kit is needed if you want to control the heating of Hot Water.

So Smart TRV's can talk to the Extension Kit without the need for a Smart Thermostat or else they talk to a Wired Smart Thermostat

deezell

grogi wrote: »

Newer Tado devices are aware of the rechargables and will not bother one unnecessary.

Only for the TRVs, and even then its a very specific NiMh they list, about €6 for each TRV.
For the main Stat or a stat sensor its still Alkaline AAA only recommended.
http://support.tado.com/en/articles/3403608-what-type-of-batteries-should-i-use-in-my-tado-devices-how-do-i-replace-them

cubix

championc wrote: »

A Smart Thermostat can be wired or wireless. If wireless, you need the Extension Kit, but an Extension Kit is needed if you want to control the heating of Hot Water.

So Smart TRV's can talk to the Extension Kit without the need for a Smart Thermostat or else they talk to a Wired Smart Thermostat

Thanks for that, so is there any benifit having a Tado wall stat in the setup if your rads have smart TRV's.

grogi

cubix wrote: »

Thanks for that, so is there any benifit having a Tado wall stat in the setup if your rads have smart TRV's.

Wall stat gives much better temp readouts. I have them in two rooms, where the TRV had a bit restricted airflow and did think it was much warmer than it really was.

Clareman

cubix wrote: »

Thanks for that, so is there any benifit having a Tado wall stat in the setup if your rads have smart TRV's.

My understanding is that if you only have 1 radiator in a room then you are better off with just the TRV but you need to realise that the temperature is the temperature closest to the radiator so adjust accordingly, a wall stat would have a more accurate temp for where you are sitting. That's just from my own research not from actual usage

deezell

cubix wrote: »

Thanks for that, so is there any benifit having a Tado wall stat in the setup if your rads have smart TRV's.

You must have one wired or wireless wall stat in the system in order to call the boiler on behalf of the TRVs. The ext kit alone can not act as a relay for the TRVs unless it is associated wirelessly with a stat. Without a wall stat, wired to the boiler or wireless to an ext kit, TRVs can only regulate room temperature while the boiler is active, but can not directly call the boiler.

championc

My bad, thanks for the clarification

Bawnmore

For anyone with the Drayton Wiser system - we have 3 devices in the hall (room thermostat + 2 TRVs. When adding, I added as Hall/Hall 1/Hall 2 - I'm assuming this is wrong and I should be adding to one room so the room thermostat can act as the parent? At the moment, I'm guessing what's happening is that if the room thermostat is 1 degree cooler (which it usually is) and calls for heat, the TRV's don't care and stay closed - does that sound right?

Paulzx

Yes. You need to add the 3 devices to the same room. The room thermostat will then take precedent over the 2 TRV's

Bawnmore

Paulzx wrote: »

Yes. You need to add the 3 devices to the same room. The room thermostat will then take precedent over the 2 TRV's

Perfect - got it now - cheers.

Blowheads

What is the best smart Stat, 2 zone plus HW
I have and want rid of Nest due to constantly going offline

Are ye not fond of climote?
Do we like tado?
What about hive?

Josieg

Would anyone know if a Nest stat (or any stat) be placed in a bathroom/shower room? I've never seen one in a bathroom before so wondering if its a general electrical safety thing.

Clareman

Blowheads wrote: »

What is the best smart Stat, 2 zone plus HW
I have and want rid of Nest due to constantly going offline

Are ye not fond of climote?
Do we like tado?
What about hive?

I had the Netamo for years and needed to change, all the research I've seen suggest that Tado is the way to go, especially with TRVs.

If the Nest is constantly going offline I'd be checking the warranty on it, I've found Google brilliant and replacing things if they go flaky, even if out of warranty, they might even give you a discount on a new 1

Clareman

Josieg wrote: »

Would anyone know if a Nest stat (or any stat) be placed in a bathroom/shower room? I've never seen one in a bathroom before so wondering if its a general electrical safety thing.

It's not recommended to have electronic stuff in bathrooms, I assume because of moisture, I can't imaging having an electronic device in a steamy environment for long could be a good thing.

Josieg

Clareman wrote: »

It's not recommended to have electronic stuff in bathrooms, I assume because of moisture, I can't imaging having an electronic device in a steamy environment for long could be a good thing.

Yeah, that's what I assumed and I'd image most stats wouldn't be IP rated for any moisture. It seem strange though as you'd think having temperature control in a bathroom would be a good thing to have. These Nest sensors would be a handy workaround only for the fact they don't work on Nest stats outside the US!
https://support.google.com/googlenest/answer/9248154?hl=en

Clareman

I'd imagine there's some many rules & regulations to get around it just wouldn't be worth the hassle for them, same way as their outdoor cameras have to connect to a 2.4 network over here, that'll probably change in years to go but there's no-one willing to drive the change so it'll take some time.

deezell

Josieg wrote: »

Would anyone know if a Nest stat (or any stat) be placed in a bathroom/shower room? I've never seen one in a bathroom before so wondering if its a general electrical safety thing.

It would be against regs to fit a wired ome switching mains. A wireless one would be safe, but the issue of reliability in a high humidity environment is another matter, it would depend on the manufacturer. Similarly, a smart TRV would be electrically safe, but it's electronics would have to be immune to high humidity also.

Blowheads

Clareman wrote: »

I had the Netamo for years and needed to change, all the research I've seen suggest that Tado is the way to go, especially with TRVs.

If the Nest is constantly going offline I'd be checking the warranty on it, I've found Google brilliant and replacing things if they go flaky, even if out of warranty, they might even give you a discount on a new 1

Do you have tado?
Where you buy and who did install?

championc

Blowheads wrote: »

Do you have tado?
Where you buy and who did install?

Buy via Amazon, but time a purchase right xnd get decent discounts. It's sold as a consumer installable product

Clareman

Blowheads wrote: »

Do you have tado?
Where you buy and who did install?

I bought them directly from tado a month ago, i installed the stat myself and I'm waiting for a plumber to change the valves on my radiators to install the TRVs.

Blowheads

Clareman wrote: »

I bought them directly from tado a month ago, i installed the stat myself and I'm waiting for a plumber to change the valves on my radiators to install the TRVs.

I wouldn't be too confident of the wiring, since I'd be moving from nest heatlinks to this setup

deezell

Blowheads wrote: »

I wouldn't be too confident of the wiring, since I'd be moving from nest heatlinks to this setup

Drayton wiser kit 3 would be a better option. The equivalent receiver would replace both heatlinks, two CH and HW switching. Stats are wireless. Your Nest stats will sell for a good price also, highly sought after.

Bawnmore

deezell wrote: »

Drayton wiser kit 3 would be a better option. The equivalent receiver would replace both heatlinks, two CH and HW switching. Stats are wireless. Your Nest stats will sell for a good price also, highly sought after.

I assume there's no market for an EPH controller and stat? I actually haven't removed the EPH stat yet, just turned it up the full way (I think it said this in the Drayton intructions). Assuming that's OK?

Everything great otherwise - installed last TRV last night and tweaking every few days. Will have the schedule perfect soon I'd say.