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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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downcow

trashcan wrote: »

That has always been my take on it too. Much more to do with keeping themselves apart from the rest of the island than anything else.

You seem infatuated on using religious terms for the conflict while everyone else on here seems to understand it in loyalist/republican terms.
Mind you your suggests that’s your main interest/agenda

Edit. Apologies that was meant for Fr who you had responded to

BluePlanet

trashcan wrote: »

But in such a scenario, where the majority of NI would have voted for unity, it’s highly unlikely that you would have a majority of the (former, at that stage) NI looking for devolution. So where would that leave you ? And your ultimate goal would be, what ? Full Independence for Northern Ireland ? In a scenario where Unionists are not in the majority ?

You sure you’ve thought this through ?

downcow has certainly not thought anything through.
An Independent NI would not last a day.

At best they would hope to establish part of Antrim and Down as some sort of separatist region but there's just no way that would be sustainable for even 1 week.
People need electricity, they need to get to work, they need food.
We live in a connected world and attempting to road block off a section of geography like that would be utterly futile. These are minds living in the past.

Who would support them?

Britain will gladly be shed this troublesome colony.

downcow

lawred2 wrote: »

I said to my wife earlier in the week to wait and see how the PSNI reacts if similar carry on kicks off in a nationalist area..

Being British she didn't quite believe me.

She sees it now.

Did you tell her why you are referring to one area as ‘nationalist’ and the other as ‘loyalist’?

downcow

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...so much for the claims that the protests hadn't been organised :rolleyes:

The psni (who you all seem to think are wonderful) said today that none of the weeks loyalist rioting was organised but loyalist paramilitaries

But you guys won’t want to hear that as it doesn’t suit your agenda

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

Who would look like goons if you refused devolution for this now homeless people. You paint it how you would like it but not a chance of a full blown terrorist campaign wanting re-entry into UK. That ship would have sailed.
You would have very serious community strife, street violence, loyalist/nationalist tit-for-tat murder. And all the poor downtrodden loyalist people would be (initially) asking for would be the tiniest devolution - you would look like awful people if you would give the ‘separatists’ nothing. Once you give something then we are on a slippery slope to full devolution, autonomy, independence.
I’ve never been involved with any political party or loyal order etc, but I’d be signing up for this movement the day after UI

But in such a scenario, where the majority of NI would have voted for unity, it’s highly unlikely that you would have a majority of the (former, at that stage) NI looking for devolution. So where would that leave you ? And your ultimate goal would be, what ? Full Independence for Northern Ireland ? In a scenario where Unionists are not in the majority ?

You sure you’ve thought this through ?

downcow

batman75 wrote: »

Dismayed to see water cannons used on nationalist youths rioting last night. It speaks of a continued state inequality in how Catholics and Protestants are treated. Fine if everybody gets the water treatment. It also feeds into unionist beliefs of superiority and that Catholics are the great unwashed. Disgusting.

They are the great washed today.

This is just silly. The water canon moved into Place following a very difficult night before. The psni were not expecting the loyalists to behave and the republicans take up the fight.
They thought they would be hiding the prods. So this is just more victimshood.
Who were the plastic billets fires at this week?

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

A nasty sectarian post that bears little resemblance to reality

What is sectarian about it? Go ahead give us the Unionist version of how Northern Presbyterians went from being pro-Republic to anti-Home Rule in 70 years. What happened in that period to see such a swing in opinion because there there was very little happening for Catholics other than a few famines and the ending of the penal laws? Have at it.

I have read enough of your posts to know when it comes to being far from reality, there is nobody worse than yourself.

steddyeddy

Tell me how wrote: »

'One of the main principles of Loyalism is Loyalty to the crown'

That's the only principle of loyalism.

I often wonder how that fits in with their throwing petrol bombs at busses in the UK policy?

I would suggest that serious investment needs to be made in these areas but the DUP are actually benefitting by keeping these people in hate mode.

downcow

BluePlanet wrote: »

Look after a UI vote numerous stake holders are all on the same side: British Government, Irish Government, all their security and intelligence services and police services and all Republican groups, not to mention USA.
All striving for a peaceful transition to a UI.

It would an major international embarrassment for the UK if we see a bunch of Loyalist goons waving British flags, running riot to try to thwart the democratic will of the people for a UI.

I would expect the British government and intelligence services to do their due diligence and keep their useful idiots in NI in check.

Who would look like goons if you refused devolution for this now homeless people. You paint it how you would like it but not a chance of a full blown terrorist campaign wanting re-entry into UK. That ship would have sailed.
You would have very serious community strife, street violence, loyalist/nationalist tit-for-tat murder. And all the poor downtrodden loyalist people would be (initially) asking for would be the tiniest devolution - you would look like awful people if you would give the ‘separatists’ nothing. Once you give something then we are on a slippery slope to full devolution, autonomy, independence.
I’ve never been involved with any political party or loyal order etc, but I’d be signing up for this movement the day after UI

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

You might see it as a branch of Unionism, but it is the best description of people who support the DUP which is still the biggest party in NI. Maybe by another branch of Unionism, you mean the more moderate Unionists who might support the Alliance party and have emerged in the 20 years since the GFA. They are more likely to believe in the benefit of remining within the UK for pragmatic reasons(NHS etc), but are also the most likely to be open to the idea of a UI as well and are still far away from being the dominant force in Unionism.

Whether you like it or not, historically Unionisn has always been defined by Anti-Catholic doctrine. As I have pointed out more than once, when Home Rule was first mooted that would see Ireland remaining within the UK in the 1870/80s, the majority of Protestants were completely opposed to it even though it did not compromise their 'Britishness'. It was the idea of having to share power with Catholics they found appalling. The irony being that if Ireland had been granted home rule in the 19th century, it might have developed along a completely different line and may still have been part of the UK. If only Unionists had not been so shortsighted, bigoted and paranoid.

A nasty sectarian post that bears little resemblance to reality

trashcan

bilston wrote: »

Well coming from NI...I see myself as Northern Irish first and foremost and British and Irish in equal measure. I'm quite comfortable in any of those skins. That's the beauty of being from Northern Ireland...that and vaccines:D

Now this I can get on board with much more than any “I’m not Irish, I’m British” declarations.

[Deleted User]

Hamsterchops wrote: »

An existential threat to the Irish people

Really?

Scare mongering. Don't know one person that feels under threat at all. Let them destroy their own place if they want. Nothing to do with us. British governments problem, not the Irish.

trashcan

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

But historically, this idea of being British has less to do with being loyal to Britain than it had to do with not being associated with anything considered Catholic. The idea of Britishness over Irishness only really increased as Catholics in Ireland started to gain equal rights. That is why Unionism is built on nothing more than religious bigotry and intolerance and the OO has played a huge part in pushing that agenda.

That has always been my take on it too. Much more to do with keeping themselves apart from the rest of the island than anything else.

Hamsterchops

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes because the British state will remain an existential threat to the Irish people while it has a foothold on our island.

An existential threat to the Irish people

Really?

Tell me how

'One of the main principles of Loyalism is Loyalty to the crown'

That's the only principle of loyalism.

[Deleted User]

10000maniacs wrote: »

Even the scrotes have a moral code. Lets refrain from tearing the guts out of our community for a few days because Philip has died.
But in a few days we will resume doing it.

LOL. Great bunch of lads

igCorcaigh

10000maniacs wrote: »

Even the scrotes have a moral code. Lets refrain from tearing the guts out of our community for a few days because Philip has died.
But in a few days we will resume doing it.

Injustices... Christ.

10000maniacs

McMurphy wrote: »

Loyalist housing estates seem to have called off their scrotes for the meantime.

Even the scrotes have a moral code. Lets refrain from tearing the guts out of our community for a few days because Philip has died.
But in a few days we will resume doing it.

Junkyard Tom

Del.Monte wrote: »

And what if there was a border poll and the result was NO to a United Ireland, would we be asked to vote every couple of years until the result is YES

Yes because the British state will remain an existential threat to the Irish people while it has a foothold on our island.

maccored

Del.Monte wrote: »

Don't forget to show your wife this report of baton rounds being used against loyalist rioters or would that not sit comfortably with your agenda.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/ni-street-violence-bus-driver-at-centre-of-hijacking-is-badly-shaken-and-will-need-time-before-returning-to-work-six-baton-rounds-fired-at-rioters-by-psni-brandon-lewis-flies-in-for-emergency-talks-over-rioting-3192990

wow, 6 whole rounds.

Del.Monte

lawred2 wrote: »

I said to my wife earlier in the week to wait and see how the PSNI reacts if similar carry on kicks off in a nationalist area..

Being British she didn't quite believe me.

She sees it now.

Don't forget to show your wife this report of baton rounds being used against loyalist rioters or would that not sit comfortably with your agenda.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/ni-street-violence-bus-driver-at-centre-of-hijacking-is-badly-shaken-and-will-need-time-before-returning-to-work-six-baton-rounds-fired-at-rioters-by-psni-brandon-lewis-flies-in-for-emergency-talks-over-rioting-3192990

lawred2

batman75 wrote: »

Dismayed to see water cannons used on nationalist youths rioting last night. It speaks of a continued state inequality in how Catholics and Protestants are treated. Fine if everybody gets the water treatment. It also feeds into unionist beliefs of superiority and that Catholics are the great unwashed. Disgusting.

I said to my wife earlier in the week to wait and see how the PSNI reacts if similar carry on kicks off in a nationalist area..

Being British she didn't quite believe me.

She sees it now.

Kermit.de.frog

McMurphy wrote: »

Loyalist housing estates seem to have called off their scrotes for the meantime.

Is it April 1st? I'm sure it's not April 1st. Could be wrong.

Seth Brundle

McMurphy wrote: »

Loyalist housing estates seem to have called off their scrotes for the meantime.

https://i.postimg.cc/tTHRgC5v/IMG-20210409-174330.jpg

...so much for the claims that the protests hadn't been organised :rolleyes:

Del.Monte

BluePlanet wrote: »

Look after a UI vote numerous stake holders are all on the same side: British Government, Irish Government, all their security and intelligence services and police services and all Republican groups, not to mention USA.
All striving for a peaceful transition to a UI.

It would an major international embarrassment for the UK if we see a bunch of Loyalist goons waving British flags, running riot to try to thwart the democratic will of the people for a UI.

I would expect the British government and intelligence services to do their due diligence and keep their useful idiots in NI in check.

And what if there was a border poll and the result was NO to a United Ireland, would we be asked to vote every couple of years until the result is YES like that rabble in the SNP want for their backwater? :rolleyes:

Hamsterchops

Good for you :rolleyes:

ulster

McMurphy wrote: »

Loyalist housing estates seem to have called off their scrotes for the meantime.

I had a good laugh reading that.

Lucy8080

batman75 wrote: »

Dismayed to see water cannons used on nationalist youths rioting last night. It speaks of a continued state inequality in how Catholics and Protestants are treated. Fine if everybody gets the water treatment. It also feeds into unionist beliefs of superiority and that Catholics are the great unwashed. Disgusting.

I believe the P.S.N.I. reported using six baton rounds( not sure what the official name they now use) the night(s) before on the Shankill side. Water Cannon is used when the threat level to life/property is less corcerning.

Don't think we can judge this as inequality in policing both sides. Water cannon was judged sufficient last night.

Baton rounds tend to be a last resort.

RandomViewer

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It certainly will be very telling if the riots continue following the death of a royal.

He's only an inlaw, dont think it'll make any difference

McMurphy

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It certainly will be very telling if the riots continue following the death of a royal.

Loyalist housing estates seem to have called off their scrotes for the meantime.

Great going considering the protests are not organised.