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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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downcow

McMurphy wrote: »

If you identify as British who am I to disagree (or care)

You seem to have your insecurities about your Britishness, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to browbeat me into some kind of challenge for me to "accept it"

You're British? Great -fantastic - party time!

I couldn’t care less what you think I am. I am challenging your double talk.
The reality is the opposite. You can refer to me as whatever you like, even irish. The fact is that I am legally british

FileNotFound

downcow wrote: »

You are ignoring the question.
Do you accept that I am a Brit?

If you are from the North doesn't that mean you are not a Brit. Rather just a minion of the British empire?

Thus the whole Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

I always understood that Northerners were not Brits. Have never read or seen anything that has told me otherwise (doesn't mean I am right but historically and geographically this seems to be accurate no?)

trixi001

downcow wrote: »

You are ignoring the question.
Do you accept that I am a Brit?

To be the term Brit always referred to British Government, British Army etc. It was not a term used to describe normal people loving in the North who considered themselves British.

As for you saying you are a Brit...unless you are member of the British Establishment, then no i don't accept you are a Brit.

You can consider yourself to be British if you want, but i will never accept that anyone from Northern Ireland is British - as it is not part of Britain...Britain is England, Scotland & Wales. The UK consists of Britain & Northern Ireland..so i fully accept that you are a UK citizen...

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

You are ignoring the question.
Do you accept that I am a Brit?

If you identify as British who am I to disagree (or care)

You seem to have your insecurities about your Britishness, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to browbeat me into some kind of challenge for me to "accept it"

You're British? Great -fantastic - party time!

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Sorry for going to a funeral?'

Wow, that is some question to ask anyone.

Think about that for a second.

As I have said before, a way to allow people to respect and remember their dead has to be found. The idea that somebody would have to apologise 'for attending a funeral' is quite frankly depraved.

They have apologised for any breaches and would not do it in the same way again btw.

Why would that be absurd.
Michelle O’Neill was part of making rules that said that you must not attend a friends funeral. She told us all numerous times to obey it.
Then she brazingly broke it and attended her friends funeral. Very reasonable to ask her to apologise

Del.Monte

steddyeddy wrote: »

I lived in England for years and call BS on that Rob. Yes the unionists in mainland will routinely state that "Northern Ireland is as British as London". However, outside blanket statements like that they will be found extremely lacking. They don't even put the basic effort into understanding Northern Ireland (a part of the UK) and the history of the troubles there. Also a large overlap exists between Brexit voters and unionists. However, these are acting against unionism so don't really count as unionists.

BS, you could equally say that English people don't even put the basic effort into understanding Wales or Scotland and vice versa.

BluePlanet

I'll just leave this here.
It's from https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/04/22/brits-increasingly-dont-care-whether-northern-irel
Care%20if%20Northern%20Ireland%20leaves-01.png

Care%20if%20Northern%20Ireland%20leaves-01.png

downcow

McMurphy wrote: »

In that case, ave a word with your pal so.

Do you think of yourself as a Brit?

If you do, yeah, and that's your absolute right to identify as one.

You can think you're a goldfish for all I care btw.

You are ignoring the question.
Do you accept that I am a Brit?

BENDYBINN

Hamsterchops wrote: »

My understanding is that yes they moved over from Britain (just 12 miles away) and settled on this island, and the connections with said island (just 12 miles away) are still strong, so although they may live in Tyrone there is no reason for them to stop being plugged-into the neighbouring island of Britain.

When you look at it like that, I can certainly understand how they remain British. We on the other hand embarked on a different course, when one hundred years ago when we metaphorically rowed away from Britishness and our connections with the rest of these islands.

Now, if only NI Unionists would disconnect from Britain, renounce their Britishness and become one with us then there would be a clear demarcation between the two islands.

But it’s called Great Britain and Northern Ireland......The north isn’t British

Hamsterchops

Mimon wrote: »

No problem with unionism as a concept but does not make sense someone from Tyrone say calling themselves British when their ancestors left Britain 300+ years ago.

My understanding is that yes they moved over from Britain (just 12 miles away) and settled on this island, and the connections with said island (just 12 miles away) are still strong, so although they may live in Tyrone there is no reason for them to stop being plugged-into the neighbouring island of Britain.

When you look at it like that, I can certainly understand how they remain British. We on the other hand embarked on a different course, when one hundred years ago when we metaphorically rowed away from Britishness and our connections with the rest of these islands.

Now, if only NI Unionists would disconnect from Britain, renounce their Britishness and become one with us then there would be a clear demarcation between the two islands.

steddyeddy

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

I lived in England for years and call BS on that Rob. Yes the unionists in mainland will routinely state that "Northern Ireland is as British as London". However, outside blanket statements like that they will be found extremely lacking. They don't even put the basic effort into understanding Northern Ireland (a part of the UK) and the history of the troubles there. Also a large overlap exists between Brexit voters and unionists. However, these are acting against unionism so don't really count as unionists.

Jackben75

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEsFtiruIok

sums t up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmBauXYzgc
Boris

RandomViewer

Mimon wrote: »

Britishness always seemed to me to be a very contrived concept.

I know all nationalism including Irishness is in some way contrived but there is usually some sort of cultural similarities that bind a nation together. Seems to me Britishness was promoted as a fake nationality to hold the union together after the act of union.

No problem with unionism as a concept but does not make sense someone from Tyrone say calling themselves British when their ancestors left Britain 300+ years ago.

A lot of their ancesters were little more than indentured servants brought over to serve in the big houses, saved the laird having to acknowledge the existence of the natives,

bilston

tayto lover wrote: »

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

I suspect they will stop organised protests tonight, but we'll find out later.

[Deleted User]

Mimon wrote: »

Britishness always seemed to me to be a very contrived concept.

I know all nationalism including Irishness is in some way contrived but there is usually some sort of cultural similarities that bind a nation together. Seems to me Britishness was promoted as a fake nationality to hold the union together after the act of union.

No problem with unionism as a concept but does not make sense someone from Tyrone say calling themselves British when their ancestors left Britain 300+ years ago.

No question, it's not really a British identity as such, more a Northern Irish one. Lived in Britain for many years and the north for a few, and nearly all British people would recoil from the leadership of Unionism in the North. The DUP fought gay marriage ffs, you'd struggle to find an English person who doesn't think that position is unacceptable.

[Deleted User]

The transition to a society where unionists don't dominate so much is hard for the Protestant side, which might encourage people to say 'a pity about them' but it is true and it is problematic.
In the 70s and in a sense even more so in the 80s, if you were a Catholic in Belfast you had to stay in certain areas. Things have changed very dramatically, in a way I certainly couldn't have seen. It's a way better place to be a Catholic now, way better. Sure, it is still part of the UK, but daily life has changed and there is some recognition of us as a people.
When I first arrived in the 70s there was no doubt who ran everything, back then things like the centenary stone that they wanted to put in Stormont would be in with no issues at all for the unionists. Union Jacks on all public buildings all the time, Orangemen paraded where they wanted, the police were all Protestant, they dominated the city. Now, it's much more neutral, and I think the whole Protestant community is still finding it traumatic, 23 years after the Agreement.
The unionists are not victims, not by any stretch of the imagination, but they think they are and they were reared thinking their identity would be prioritised and get them preferential treatment.
I don't think there's much can be done, but there is a need for more evolved Protestant political leadership to help ease the transition. The alliance party are helpful, but the DUP have been a disaster over the last number of years. They should not have backed Brexit, and when it happened they were in a position to push for the softest possible one, but they just wouldn't do it. The union won't last if the protestants don't find some leaders, and while I do hope for reunification, we need at least seven more years to prepare. We could be overtaken by events much sooner.

McMurphy

tayto lover wrote: »

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

I don't think that'll stop them tayto, just a hunch mind you.

But his funeral will be very interesting, obviously Arlene will turn down any invitation to attend. What with her uproar about the Sinn Féin funeral.

Watch this space.

Mimon

RandomViewer wrote: »

The British people of England,Scotland and Wales would consider the people who call themselves British in the North as the same as someone from Malta or old Hong Kong or someone white from Commonwealth Africa, technically British but not British really,

Britishness always seemed to me to be a very contrived concept.

I know all nationalism including Irishness is in some way contrived but there is usually some sort of cultural similarities that bind a nation together. Seems to me Britishness was promoted as a fake nationality to hold the union together after the act of union.

No problem with unionism as a concept but does not make sense someone from Tyrone say calling themselves British when their ancestors left Britain 300+ years ago.

tayto lover

caveat emptor wrote: »

They will be wearing black as a mark of respect as is the tradition. :pac:

There’ll be black flegs flying too.

caveat emptor

tayto lover wrote: »

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

They will be wearing black as a mark of respect as is the tradition. :pac: Good age all the same.

FrancieBrady

The 'Unionist' Tory party showed a majority would let northern Ireland go to achieve Brexit.

Not much solace in that stark reality.

tayto lover

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

RandomViewer

RobMc59 wrote: »

I said British people who believe in the Union.
As I've said before,that is regarded as normal here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionism_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Unionism%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2C%20also%20referred%20to%20as%20British,referred%20to%20as%20%22Unionists%22.

At least they've grouped the Orange order with the UDA and UVF as militant groups

RandomViewer

Mimon wrote: »

I think you are giving them too much credit. Most of them look at the union as something involving England, Wales and Scotland and have only a basic understanding of how the North of Ireland relates to that union.

If you asked British people to describe the nationality of someone with an Northern accent they would overwhelmingly say Irish, maybe a few would say Northern Irish. I would say 0% would say British

The British people of England,Scotland and Wales would consider the people who call themselves British in the North as the same as someone from Malta or old Hong Kong or someone white from Commonwealth Africa, technically British but not British really,

Mimon

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

I think you are giving them too much credit. Most of them look at the union as something involving England, Wales and Scotland and have only a basic understanding of how the North of Ireland relates to that union.

If you asked British people to describe the nationality of someone with an Northern accent they would overwhelmingly say Irish, maybe a few would say Northern Irish. I would say 0% would say British

RandomViewer

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Just saw that Ruth Dudley Edwards article on there. I thought it was a Waterford Whispers article. No joking.

She must be a hundred years old by now, didnt the Trimbles get a barring order against her?

[Deleted User]

RobMc59 wrote: »

I said British people who believe in the Union.
As I've said before,that is regarded as normal here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionism_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Unionism%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2C%20also%20referred%20to%20as%20British,referred%20to%20as%20%22Unionists%22.

Having lived in England for several years it was a rare occasion that the British in England, or Wales for that matter recognised the British in Northern Ireland. The Scots, obviously, are much more aware of the differences but in England and Wales, we're mostly Irish as far as many are concerned.

RobMc59

Seth Brundle wrote: »

When was this survey of all British people held?

I said British people who believe in the Union.
As I've said before,that is regarded as normal here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionism_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Unionism%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2C%20also%20referred%20to%20as%20British,referred%20to%20as%20%22Unionists%22.

afro man

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus, Nordies would depress you.

Stay out of Nordie thread so

[Deleted User]

Jesus, Nordies would depress you.