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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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afro man

downcow wrote: »

We have had crowds of young people rioting on both sides of the Lanark way peace line. Psni said on wed night equal numbers exchanged petrol bombs etc.

Why are all media networks referring to ‘loyalists’ on one side and ‘nationalists’ on the other side? And never unionists on one side and republicans on the other?

Downcow
why did Media not ask The Psni why after a full week of Riots in Mainly Loyalists Areas the water cannons were produced last Night and used on Nationalists only Rioting for the first Night ,And Arlene has the Neck to Stand up and criticize the Psni, Double Standards By PSNI When dealing with Riots but then again anybody who lived through the Troubles would not be surprised.

FileNotFound

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Sorry for going to a funeral?'

Wow, that is some question to ask anyone.

Think about that for a second.

As I have said before, a way to allow people to respect and remember their dead has to be found. The idea that somebody would have to apologise 'for attending a funeral' is quite frankly depraved.

They have apologised for any breaches and would not do it in the same way again btw.

Is it actually true that the attendance was in breach of the laws at the time? I know arlene keeps saying it is but was it actually?

If it was then apologies are pointless as they broke the law. If they didn't break any laws then I suppose the apology for how it was done should be enough.

So my understanding is the regulations say the below:

The regulations, as they were in place on the day of the funeral, also stated that people can leave their homes to attend the funeral of a friend if no close family member or member of their household is attending.

I guess the question was this met.

Also is it true that SF politicians gave speeches at a separate Graveyard on the day to a large crowd?

[Deleted User]

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

Recent behaviour of the Tories and in particular Boris himself would indicate otherwise. The DUP have done nothing but damage the Unionist community whilst casting blame everywhere else.

They dragged their heels on any kind of a deal and pushed for a hard Brexit which would clearly be detrimental and destabilizing to Northern Ireland. I don't know how many times this point was raised but the DUP ploughed on ahead anyway whilst selling Unicorns and Rainbows to any Unionists that wanted it.

No one else but the DUP caused the NI Protocol, this was their doing through sheer incompetence, stubbornness and fundamentalism.

The Unionist community would be wise to drop the DUP as their voice as soon as possible, because in reality they have done nothing, not one thing, not one iota for the Unionist Community in recent years and in particular they've caused untold amounts of damage to working class areas.

Now, here we are. Disillusioned Loyalists and Unionists in some of the most economically deprived areas rioting and lashing out at society. I don't condone this behaviour but I can certainly understand the frustration in relation to recent politics.

The DUP caused this. They cannot be allowed to continue to screw over Unionists whilst at the same time stoking tensions and blaming everyone else for their own incompetence.

FrancieBrady

10000maniacs wrote: »

Did you notice over the last 5 years that what they say and what they do are somewhat different? The thing I can't make any sense of is the DUP going full hard Brexit. It's like cutting off your legs to prove you are a loyal part of Bojos Brexit army.

The belligerent part of Unionism knows what is coming. They know that in the short to medium term that the constitutional position is going to be tested, they are also watching Scotland (they panicked remember, when it looked like independence was going to win there)
Quite simple, they, like Theresa May, are not altogether sure the Remain side would win here:

Theresa May 'not confident' unionists would win Irish border poll

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/theresa-may-not-confident-unionists-would-win-irish-border-poll-reports-36908576.html

They need deepened division and a hard border on the island. That was the play and that is what led them to disaster basically.
What you are seeing now is a desperate rearguard action to try and create a bloodbath.

jm08

ash2020 wrote: »

in the days where we have super cctv cameras, is it not possible to zoom in and record these groups at close range and the next day go and arrest them? if some of them turn out to be 12 and 13 year olds then arrest there parents for allowing there scum to take part in this flame throwing riots

a 10 year stretch sentence might be enough to get there attention? i personally dont care about religion or what groups they call themselvs, ira, nationalists, sinn fein , prodastands

looking at the news - its showing the crowds involved have to respect for the law, or other persons well been

lock them all up, build bigger prisons , throw away the key if needs be, there is innocent people up there scared out of there mind caught up in all this, imagine trying to go to work and put food on your table and bring up a young family and give them the best possibilities in life, and then have to withness this carry on down the road,

They tried something like that in the 70s (Internment). All it did was being a superb recruiting campaign for the IRA.

banie01

The outbreak of rioting in nationalist areas is a worrying development but one I hope the leaders up there will rein in quickly.

The outbreaks at the peace wall are actually quite understandable if you know the area.
Loyalist rioters approached the wall and the Nationalists break out their own rioters to act as a threat/protection should the Loyalists cross the wall and what did the Loyalists do?
But try to breach the gates.

The whole premise of the riot as being in response to SF and the Bobby Storey fiasco?
It's bollox really, why not direct that ire at the charging authority?
I've not seen any calls for the Director of the PPS or the solicitor who reviewed the evidence to resign or any riots at their offices?

The direction of rioters towards Nationalist communities brought about a show of force on that side of the divide.
It is illustration of both how tribal the divide still is and how little trust Nationalist communities still have in the PSNI.
That lack of trust won't be helped by the manner and target of water cannon deployment.

Hamsterchops

The Storey-IRA funeral was of course a massive breach of Covid regulations, regulations that everybody else had to abide by, so there really was no excuse for the Republican rally that it was, on saying that, there is no excuse for the outright thuggish behaviour of Loyalist youth (no doubt orchestrated by senior Loyalist figures) from Loyalist paramilitary groups!

Send in the water cannon I say (with coloured dye), so that the rioters can be identified and then cuffed & locked up the very next day.

Irish "sea border" isn't helping matters either.

RobMc59

10000maniacs wrote: »

Did you notice over the last 5 years that what they say and what they do are somewhat different? The thing I can't make any sense of is the DUP going full hard Brexit. It's like cutting off your legs to prove you are a loyal part of Bojos Brexit army.

I agree that Johnson hasn't helped Unionism.Prior to brexit there was zero chance of a UI imo,I'd say there's still little chance the people of NI would vote for it and the majority of people in Ireland wouldn't want the problems we are witnessing now which will always be there.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

They tried something like that in the 70s (Internment). All it did was being a superb recruiting campaign for the IRA.

This is true...the IRA had no hand in activating Internment and had no hand in fortifying the border but they certainly gained membership as a result.

There is no doubt there are those who want victims on their own side. 'Victimhood' is a core component of this and you will hear them ramping up this talk of being the victims of the GFA while themun's got everything.
When equality is being portrayed as a bad thing you know there are remnants of supremacy still in the air.

malinheader

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a parade or March in Belfast before the storey funeral carried out by loyalists paramilitary factions also breaching covid restrictions.

McMurphy

RobMc59 wrote: »

I agree that Johnson hasn't helped Unionism.Prior to brexit there was zero chance of a UI imo,I'd say there's still little chance the people of NI would vote for it and the majority of people in Ireland wouldn't want the problems we are witnessing now which will always be there.

Johnson simply does not care one iota. As I suspect neither do the vast, vast majority of British people actually living in Britain.

https://twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1380127816503676932?s=19

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

When was this survey of all British people held?

[Deleted User]

Jesus, Nordies would depress you.

afro man

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus, Nordies would depress you.

Stay out of Nordie thread so

RobMc59

Seth Brundle wrote: »

When was this survey of all British people held?

I said British people who believe in the Union.
As I've said before,that is regarded as normal here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionism_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Unionism%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2C%20also%20referred%20to%20as%20British,referred%20to%20as%20%22Unionists%22.

[Deleted User]

RobMc59 wrote: »

I said British people who believe in the Union.
As I've said before,that is regarded as normal here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionism_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Unionism%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2C%20also%20referred%20to%20as%20British,referred%20to%20as%20%22Unionists%22.

Having lived in England for several years it was a rare occasion that the British in England, or Wales for that matter recognised the British in Northern Ireland. The Scots, obviously, are much more aware of the differences but in England and Wales, we're mostly Irish as far as many are concerned.

RandomViewer

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Just saw that Ruth Dudley Edwards article on there. I thought it was a Waterford Whispers article. No joking.

She must be a hundred years old by now, didnt the Trimbles get a barring order against her?

Mimon

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

I think you are giving them too much credit. Most of them look at the union as something involving England, Wales and Scotland and have only a basic understanding of how the North of Ireland relates to that union.

If you asked British people to describe the nationality of someone with an Northern accent they would overwhelmingly say Irish, maybe a few would say Northern Irish. I would say 0% would say British

RandomViewer

Mimon wrote: »

I think you are giving them too much credit. Most of them look at the union as something involving England, Wales and Scotland and have only a basic understanding of how the North of Ireland relates to that union.

If you asked British people to describe the nationality of someone with an Northern accent they would overwhelmingly say Irish, maybe a few would say Northern Irish. I would say 0% would say British

The British people of England,Scotland and Wales would consider the people who call themselves British in the North as the same as someone from Malta or old Hong Kong or someone white from Commonwealth Africa, technically British but not British really,

RandomViewer

RobMc59 wrote: »

I said British people who believe in the Union.
As I've said before,that is regarded as normal here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionism_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Unionism%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2C%20also%20referred%20to%20as%20British,referred%20to%20as%20%22Unionists%22.

At least they've grouped the Orange order with the UDA and UVF as militant groups

tayto lover

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

FrancieBrady

The 'Unionist' Tory party showed a majority would let northern Ireland go to achieve Brexit.

Not much solace in that stark reality.

caveat emptor

tayto lover wrote: »

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

They will be wearing black as a mark of respect as is the tradition. :pac: Good age all the same.

tayto lover

caveat emptor wrote: »

They will be wearing black as a mark of respect as is the tradition. :pac:

There’ll be black flegs flying too.

Mimon

RandomViewer wrote: »

The British people of England,Scotland and Wales would consider the people who call themselves British in the North as the same as someone from Malta or old Hong Kong or someone white from Commonwealth Africa, technically British but not British really,

Britishness always seemed to me to be a very contrived concept.

I know all nationalism including Irishness is in some way contrived but there is usually some sort of cultural similarities that bind a nation together. Seems to me Britishness was promoted as a fake nationality to hold the union together after the act of union.

No problem with unionism as a concept but does not make sense someone from Tyrone say calling themselves British when their ancestors left Britain 300+ years ago.

McMurphy

tayto lover wrote: »

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

I don't think that'll stop them tayto, just a hunch mind you.

But his funeral will be very interesting, obviously Arlene will turn down any invitation to attend. What with her uproar about the Sinn Féin funeral.

Watch this space.

[Deleted User]

The transition to a society where unionists don't dominate so much is hard for the Protestant side, which might encourage people to say 'a pity about them' but it is true and it is problematic.
In the 70s and in a sense even more so in the 80s, if you were a Catholic in Belfast you had to stay in certain areas. Things have changed very dramatically, in a way I certainly couldn't have seen. It's a way better place to be a Catholic now, way better. Sure, it is still part of the UK, but daily life has changed and there is some recognition of us as a people.
When I first arrived in the 70s there was no doubt who ran everything, back then things like the centenary stone that they wanted to put in Stormont would be in with no issues at all for the unionists. Union Jacks on all public buildings all the time, Orangemen paraded where they wanted, the police were all Protestant, they dominated the city. Now, it's much more neutral, and I think the whole Protestant community is still finding it traumatic, 23 years after the Agreement.
The unionists are not victims, not by any stretch of the imagination, but they think they are and they were reared thinking their identity would be prioritised and get them preferential treatment.
I don't think there's much can be done, but there is a need for more evolved Protestant political leadership to help ease the transition. The alliance party are helpful, but the DUP have been a disaster over the last number of years. They should not have backed Brexit, and when it happened they were in a position to push for the softest possible one, but they just wouldn't do it. The union won't last if the protestants don't find some leaders, and while I do hope for reunification, we need at least seven more years to prepare. We could be overtaken by events much sooner.

[Deleted User]

Mimon wrote: »

Britishness always seemed to me to be a very contrived concept.

I know all nationalism including Irishness is in some way contrived but there is usually some sort of cultural similarities that bind a nation together. Seems to me Britishness was promoted as a fake nationality to hold the union together after the act of union.

No problem with unionism as a concept but does not make sense someone from Tyrone say calling themselves British when their ancestors left Britain 300+ years ago.

No question, it's not really a British identity as such, more a Northern Irish one. Lived in Britain for many years and the north for a few, and nearly all British people would recoil from the leadership of Unionism in the North. The DUP fought gay marriage ffs, you'd struggle to find an English person who doesn't think that position is unacceptable.

bilston

tayto lover wrote: »

With the death announced of Prince Philip will the so called Loyalists now go into mourning and cease their protests? Like fcuk they will.

I suspect they will stop organised protests tonight, but we'll find out later.

RandomViewer

Mimon wrote: »

Britishness always seemed to me to be a very contrived concept.

I know all nationalism including Irishness is in some way contrived but there is usually some sort of cultural similarities that bind a nation together. Seems to me Britishness was promoted as a fake nationality to hold the union together after the act of union.

No problem with unionism as a concept but does not make sense someone from Tyrone say calling themselves British when their ancestors left Britain 300+ years ago.

A lot of their ancesters were little more than indentured servants brought over to serve in the big houses, saved the laird having to acknowledge the existence of the natives,