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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

When was this survey of all British people held?

McMurphy

RobMc59 wrote: »

I agree that Johnson hasn't helped Unionism.Prior to brexit there was zero chance of a UI imo,I'd say there's still little chance the people of NI would vote for it and the majority of people in Ireland wouldn't want the problems we are witnessing now which will always be there.

Johnson simply does not care one iota. As I suspect neither do the vast, vast majority of British people actually living in Britain.

https://twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1380127816503676932?s=19

malinheader

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a parade or March in Belfast before the storey funeral carried out by loyalists paramilitary factions also breaching covid restrictions.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

They tried something like that in the 70s (Internment). All it did was being a superb recruiting campaign for the IRA.

This is true...the IRA had no hand in activating Internment and had no hand in fortifying the border but they certainly gained membership as a result.

There is no doubt there are those who want victims on their own side. 'Victimhood' is a core component of this and you will hear them ramping up this talk of being the victims of the GFA while themun's got everything.
When equality is being portrayed as a bad thing you know there are remnants of supremacy still in the air.

RobMc59

10000maniacs wrote: »

Did you notice over the last 5 years that what they say and what they do are somewhat different? The thing I can't make any sense of is the DUP going full hard Brexit. It's like cutting off your legs to prove you are a loyal part of Bojos Brexit army.

I agree that Johnson hasn't helped Unionism.Prior to brexit there was zero chance of a UI imo,I'd say there's still little chance the people of NI would vote for it and the majority of people in Ireland wouldn't want the problems we are witnessing now which will always be there.

Hamsterchops

The Storey-IRA funeral was of course a massive breach of Covid regulations, regulations that everybody else had to abide by, so there really was no excuse for the Republican rally that it was, on saying that, there is no excuse for the outright thuggish behaviour of Loyalist youth (no doubt orchestrated by senior Loyalist figures) from Loyalist paramilitary groups!

Send in the water cannon I say (with coloured dye), so that the rioters can be identified and then cuffed & locked up the very next day.

Irish "sea border" isn't helping matters either.

banie01

The outbreak of rioting in nationalist areas is a worrying development but one I hope the leaders up there will rein in quickly.

The outbreaks at the peace wall are actually quite understandable if you know the area.
Loyalist rioters approached the wall and the Nationalists break out their own rioters to act as a threat/protection should the Loyalists cross the wall and what did the Loyalists do?
But try to breach the gates.

The whole premise of the riot as being in response to SF and the Bobby Storey fiasco?
It's bollox really, why not direct that ire at the charging authority?
I've not seen any calls for the Director of the PPS or the solicitor who reviewed the evidence to resign or any riots at their offices?

The direction of rioters towards Nationalist communities brought about a show of force on that side of the divide.
It is illustration of both how tribal the divide still is and how little trust Nationalist communities still have in the PSNI.
That lack of trust won't be helped by the manner and target of water cannon deployment.

jm08

ash2020 wrote: »

in the days where we have super cctv cameras, is it not possible to zoom in and record these groups at close range and the next day go and arrest them? if some of them turn out to be 12 and 13 year olds then arrest there parents for allowing there scum to take part in this flame throwing riots

a 10 year stretch sentence might be enough to get there attention? i personally dont care about religion or what groups they call themselvs, ira, nationalists, sinn fein , prodastands

looking at the news - its showing the crowds involved have to respect for the law, or other persons well been

lock them all up, build bigger prisons , throw away the key if needs be, there is innocent people up there scared out of there mind caught up in all this, imagine trying to go to work and put food on your table and bring up a young family and give them the best possibilities in life, and then have to withness this carry on down the road,

They tried something like that in the 70s (Internment). All it did was being a superb recruiting campaign for the IRA.

FrancieBrady

10000maniacs wrote: »

Did you notice over the last 5 years that what they say and what they do are somewhat different? The thing I can't make any sense of is the DUP going full hard Brexit. It's like cutting off your legs to prove you are a loyal part of Bojos Brexit army.

The belligerent part of Unionism knows what is coming. They know that in the short to medium term that the constitutional position is going to be tested, they are also watching Scotland (they panicked remember, when it looked like independence was going to win there)
Quite simple, they, like Theresa May, are not altogether sure the Remain side would win here:

Theresa May 'not confident' unionists would win Irish border poll

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/theresa-may-not-confident-unionists-would-win-irish-border-poll-reports-36908576.html

They need deepened division and a hard border on the island. That was the play and that is what led them to disaster basically.
What you are seeing now is a desperate rearguard action to try and create a bloodbath.

[Deleted User]

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

Recent behaviour of the Tories and in particular Boris himself would indicate otherwise. The DUP have done nothing but damage the Unionist community whilst casting blame everywhere else.

They dragged their heels on any kind of a deal and pushed for a hard Brexit which would clearly be detrimental and destabilizing to Northern Ireland. I don't know how many times this point was raised but the DUP ploughed on ahead anyway whilst selling Unicorns and Rainbows to any Unionists that wanted it.

No one else but the DUP caused the NI Protocol, this was their doing through sheer incompetence, stubbornness and fundamentalism.

The Unionist community would be wise to drop the DUP as their voice as soon as possible, because in reality they have done nothing, not one thing, not one iota for the Unionist Community in recent years and in particular they've caused untold amounts of damage to working class areas.

Now, here we are. Disillusioned Loyalists and Unionists in some of the most economically deprived areas rioting and lashing out at society. I don't condone this behaviour but I can certainly understand the frustration in relation to recent politics.

The DUP caused this. They cannot be allowed to continue to screw over Unionists whilst at the same time stoking tensions and blaming everyone else for their own incompetence.

FileNotFound

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Sorry for going to a funeral?'

Wow, that is some question to ask anyone.

Think about that for a second.

As I have said before, a way to allow people to respect and remember their dead has to be found. The idea that somebody would have to apologise 'for attending a funeral' is quite frankly depraved.

They have apologised for any breaches and would not do it in the same way again btw.

Is it actually true that the attendance was in breach of the laws at the time? I know arlene keeps saying it is but was it actually?

If it was then apologies are pointless as they broke the law. If they didn't break any laws then I suppose the apology for how it was done should be enough.

So my understanding is the regulations say the below:

The regulations, as they were in place on the day of the funeral, also stated that people can leave their homes to attend the funeral of a friend if no close family member or member of their household is attending.

I guess the question was this met.

Also is it true that SF politicians gave speeches at a separate Graveyard on the day to a large crowd?

afro man

downcow wrote: »

We have had crowds of young people rioting on both sides of the Lanark way peace line. Psni said on wed night equal numbers exchanged petrol bombs etc.

Why are all media networks referring to ‘loyalists’ on one side and ‘nationalists’ on the other side? And never unionists on one side and republicans on the other?

Downcow
why did Media not ask The Psni why after a full week of Riots in Mainly Loyalists Areas the water cannons were produced last Night and used on Nationalists only Rioting for the first Night ,And Arlene has the Neck to Stand up and criticize the Psni, Double Standards By PSNI When dealing with Riots but then again anybody who lived through the Troubles would not be surprised.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

They apologised for any hurt the funeral caused.
They have been asked time and again a number of quest they will not answer.
Are you sorry for going to the funeral?
Do you accept it was against health advice to attend?
Would you do same again?
Etc etc etc

'Sorry for going to a funeral?'

Wow, that is some question to ask anyone.

Think about that for a second.

As I have said before, a way to allow people to respect and remember their dead has to be found. The idea that somebody would have to apologise 'for attending a funeral' is quite frankly depraved.

They have apologised for any breaches and would not do it in the same way again btw.

10000maniacs

RobMc59 wrote: »

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

Did you notice over the last 5 years that what they say and what they do are somewhat different? The thing I can't make any sense of is the DUP going full hard Brexit. It's like cutting off your legs to prove you are a loyal part of Bojos Brexit army.

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

I didn’t say I identified as a Brit. I said I am a Brit. A very different thing

In that case, ave a word with your pal so.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

"The Brits" is a lazy term, it's a derogatory term, a misused term, and fare I say it's a confusing term, cuz for many, specially if it only referers to the Government of the day, and not the Brits!

Do you think I’m a Brit McM?

Do you think of yourself as a Brit?

If you do, yeah, and that's your absolute right to identify as one.

You can think you're a goldfish for all I care btw.

onrail

10000maniacs wrote: »

It's not what we think on this forum that counts. It's what the Whitehall goons think. And they certainly don't think you are Brits. You are alien to them. You don't compute. That's the way of the world.

I'd be less kind and suggest that those goons almost universally see NI (and ALL of its inhabitants) as a money pit, an annoyance, an embarassment and a liability.

downcow

McMurphy wrote: »

Someone can identify as an Uzbek for all I care downcow, that's a lazy assumption on your part. You've as much right to identify as being British as Biden has to identify himself as Irish.

I didn’t say I identified as a Brit. I said I am a Brit. A very different thing

Do you think I’m a Brit McM?

RobMc59

10000maniacs wrote: »

It's not what we think on this forum that counts. It's what the Whitehall goons think. And they certainly don't think you are Brits. You are alien to them. You don't compute. That's the way of the world.

All British people who believe in the Union consider the people of NI as British and want it to stay that way.

10000maniacs

downcow wrote: »

Great observation. The problem is that posters like McM are using the term to goad my community by implying we are not brits

It's not what we think on this forum that counts. It's what the Whitehall goons think. And they certainly don't think you are Brits. You are alien to them. You don't compute. That's the way of the world.

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

Great observation. The problem is that posters like McM are using the term to goad my community by implying we are not brits

Someone can identify as an Uzbek for all I care downcow, that's a lazy assumption on your part. You've as much right to identify as being British as Biden has to identify himself as Irish.

It still doesn't take away from the fact the British Government couldn't give a dam about you and your loyalist and unionist neighbours, and the uncomfortable fact they did throw you under the bus at the first given opportunity, exactly as was forewarned to unionists from everyone and their dogs would happen.

Take it up with them, not the Irish people who actually argued against Brexit and the predicament you now find yourselves in.

downcow

We have had crowds of young people rioting on both sides of the Lanark way peace line. Psni said on wed night equal numbers exchanged petrol bombs etc.

Why are all media networks referring to ‘loyalists’ on one side and ‘nationalists’ on the other side? And never unionists on one side and republicans on the other?

downcow

Hamsterchops wrote: »

"The Brits" is a lazy term, it's a derogatory term, a misused term, and fare I say it's a confusing term, cuz for many, specially if it only referers to the Government of the day, and not the Brits!

I heard Arlene Foster getting quite exercised about the term on the radio, and her insistence that "we are the Brits" (as she put it) ... "so stop talking about the Brits in some abstract way when we actually live here".

Boris & Co are here today, gone tomorrow ...

Great observation. The problem is that posters like McM are using the term to goad my community by implying we are not brits

Hamsterchops

McMurphy wrote: »

"The Brits" in the context it was posted above = short for "The British Government" which in no way was to be meant to be taken as derogatory term, which I'm sure you knew, but interesting it is the only thing in the post you sought to pretend to take issue with.

I'll refer to actual unionists, and loyalists as "unionists and loyalists", and have done so in the exact same post you quoted,.and countless other times on this site, they're completely distinct from one another.

"The Brits" is a lazy term, it's a derogatory term, a misused term, and fare I say it's a confusing term, cuz for many, specially if it only referers to the Government of the day, and not the Brits!

I heard Arlene Foster getting quite exercised about the term on the radio, and her insistence that "we are the Brits" (as she put it) ... "so stop talking about the Brits in some abstract way when we actually live here".

Boris & Co are here today, gone tomorrow ...

McMurphy

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The Brits, the Brits, the Brits ....

They (the Unionist/Loyalist population) are the Brits, and they ain't leaving anytime soon, and apparently we are going to unite with them shortly and create a United Ireland :cool:

So, after 400+ years we should accept that the Brits ain't leaving anytime soon.

"The Brits" in the context it was posted above = short for "The British Government" which in no way was to be meant to be taken as derogatory term, which I'm sure you knew, but interesting it is the only thing in the post you sought to pretend to take issue with.

I'll refer to actual unionists, and loyalists as "unionists and loyalists", and have done so in the exact same post you quoted,.and countless other times on this site, they're completely distinct from one another.

The Brits (govt) have left the unionists and loyalists swinging, they've been hung out to dry, as they were warned they would be!

So with that in mind, I'm unsure what point you actually think you're trying to make above, but suffice to say you're making it badly.

(As a big "BTW" I mentioned "the Brits" twice in the post you quoted, you mentioned "the Brits" FIVE TIMES.)

Hamsterchops

McMurphy wrote: »

Sums up exactly what I've been asking for years ref a "threat of violence" from unionists in any UI.

What, they're going to attack us because the Brits withdrew because of a democratic vote and international agreement?

What will their aim be, to make a united Irish govt withdraw? To where?

Will they attack HMG and security services in the perceived hope of reinvading, and partitioning the isle again?

Fcuk sake, the dopes voted for what they have now, they were paramount in cheerleading Brexit, and despite everyone and their dogs warning they'd be shafted by Boris and co, they championed it anyway.

Now they're kicking up a fuss about it because the Brits left them swinging?

Eejits.

The Brits, the Brits, the Brits ....

They (the Unionist/Loyalist population) are the Brits, and they ain't leaving anytime soon, and apparently we are going to unite with them shortly and create a United Ireland :cool:

So, after 400+ years we should accept that the Brits are here for the long haul as the majority of the population up in the NE corner of this island.

They are the Brits we have to deal/unite with!

caveat emptor

I'd say it's going to be a protracted stale mate bull**** for the foreseeable. It's an intractable problem now.
If the extreme elements keep kicking up a fuss the British government is left with two options. Keep the Irish Sea border or reactivate the Northern Irish border.

I think the former is easier to control and the lesser of two evils. I think it's fairly clear at this stage that the UK just wants shot of Northern Ireland in the medium term and extricate itself from the border that isn't a border ****show.

In 10 years we could see a push for a border poll or the UK just relinquishing it. That would pose a massive problem for Dublin as there would be a significant insurgency. Ireland would want to prepare for this eventuality as it may be foisted on them. Majority of Unionist community would be unhappy at this outcome but wouldn't necessarily take up arms. The irreconcilables will be the problem.

End of the world stuff but it if they get this pissed off a trade checks then who knows.

I'd say more likely scenario is Unionism will cop on that temper tantrums will push them further away from UK and there will be a concerted effort to crack down on the criminal elements leading the youth astray.

Leaving the lovely segregated stalemate we have today for the foreseeable. Until kids are educated together the bigotry will be passed from one generation to the next on both sides.

VinLieger

downcow wrote: »

A good starting point for this thread discussion would be for us all to challenge nonsense on here from whichever side it comes

Bit rich coming from you after the content of your posts yesterday

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When you apologise for something it is pretty much implied that you accept you did something wrong.

They apologised for any hurt the funeral caused.
They have been asked time and again a number of quest they will not answer.
Are you sorry for going to the funeral?
Do you accept it was against health advice to attend?
Would you do same again?
Etc etc etc

downcow

RandomViewer wrote: »

Sea border is slowing the flow of Loyalist drugs, this is criminality dressed up as political unrest, heroin keeps the Free Presbyterian collection plates full

I am not sure if you are trolling or trying to be series. Both comments are just absurd.

A good starting point for this thread discussion would be for us all to challenge nonsense on here from whichever side it comes

Tyrone212

FileNotFound wrote: »

Had a scan of the daily mail uk comments on related articles.

Gas stuff, all to be blamed on the EU and republicans wanting to destabilise the UK and cause a untied Ireland.

Gotta love it really.

Just saw that Ruth Dudley Edwards article on there. I thought it was a Waterford Whispers article. No joking.