blanch152 wrote: » O'Neill and Murphy have been censored in a democratic vote of the NI Assembly, yet they have refused to step down. Ignoring democracy is not a good look, and they need to show leadership and resign. It is not a bit strange to see Sinn Fein apologists avoid a discussion of this.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I agree they should have been censured. I don't agree anyone should have to resign for breaking Covid regs if it occurred at the start of the pandemic. It would be different now, given what we know. I am consistent with all parties who have made mistakes. Just because I don't answer your repeated questioning on this, does not mean anything.
FrancieBrady wrote: » There we have it. PSNI - Corrupt PPS - Corrupt IMC - Corrupt. Can you give your sources on where the IMC got their info?
blanch152 wrote: » Nonsense, spinning and twisting my posts. I did not say that the IMC were corrupt, I said that their sources were incorrect. They initially thought, based on those sources, that Paul Quinn was involved in criminality. That was wrong, so the rest of their findings on Paul Quinn lack credibility as a result. That doesn't mean that I said that they are corrupt. Similarly, if I said that the PSNI engaged in a corrupt action in allowing Sinn Fein to break Covid rules for the Storey funeral, I am not saying any more than that, and in particular I am not saying that the PSNI are generally corrupt. However, it is legitimate to question the recent actions of the PSNI in dealing with Sinn Fein. If you are going to continue down a path of discussion that involves twisting of others posts and asking rhetorical pejorative questions to elucidate a "gotcha" moment, you will end up lacking any credibility.
blanch152 wrote: » Are you saying that a Minister who has been censured by parliament does not have to resign? Would you say the same about a FG minister?
FrancieBrady wrote: » What 'sources'? Time for you to back up something for once.
blanch152 wrote: » https://www.irishcentral.com/news/ira-cleared-of-murder-involvement-1172-237604181 "We think that the attack on Paul Quinn was planned and carried out by local people and that it arose from local disputes," the IMC said."Whatever the immediate reason for the killing certain aspects of these disputes go back some time and were not unconnected with continuing illegal activity." The first two words tell you all you need to know. They thought, they didn't know. The rest of what they said was later found to be untrue. The only two people who still claim that Paul Quinn was involved in criminality are you and Conor Murphy. I don't need to know their sources to know that the sources were wrong. Again, you are spinning my posts.
FrancieBrady wrote: » So where have the IMC corrected their view? And that is not providing what I asked for...the IMC's 'sources' which you claim to know.
blanch152 wrote: » "In the course of our work we have met the following categories of organisations of people in Ireland North and South: political parties; government officials; police; community groups; churches; charities; pressure groups and other organisations; businesses; lawyers; journalists; academics; victims; private citizens, individually and as families; and former combatants."https://web.archive.org/web/20070202034106/http://www.independentmonitoringcommission.org/ You should know this, a simple google search would have told you. The same people that were whispering in the PSNI's ear and spreading malicious untrue rumours about Paul Quinn were also whispering in the IMC's ear.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51381092 "Appearing on the BBC NI's Nolan Live on Wednesday night, Mr Quinn's mother Breege said: "He hasn't said Paul wasn't a criminal." Her husband Stephen added: "I want him to come out in public and say that, because he said in public that Paul was a criminal."" Time for all the nauseating twisting and spinning to end and Murphy to do the decent thing.
FrancieBrady wrote: » What? I understand Mrs Quinn doesn't want her son's memory to be tarnished. That is perfectly understandable. Are you saying the IMC should lie about what they found out in their inquiry because of that? Seems to me you are saying that.
blanch152 wrote: » You and Conor Murphy are the only two people that I know of that say Paul Quinn was involved in criminality. Will leave that there.
FrancieBrady wrote: » And the IMC. But you contend, in order to yet again cling to a position that they are a little bit corrupt, like the PSNI are and the PPS are.
blanch152 wrote: » Please stop twisting my words. I never said that the PSNI or the PPS are a little bit corrupt. You appear unable to accept the opinions of others at face value and accept them for what they are.
FrancieBrady wrote: » How did I twist your words? You have said that in their decision on the Storey funeral that the PSNI and PPS are corrupt.
FrancieBrady wrote: » If you contend that the IMC only listened to republican sources in coming to their decision that is an allegation of corruption because they are not supposed to do that, they are supposed to be an INDEPENDENT monitoring conmission.
blanch152 wrote: » Saying that an individual action of an organisation was corrupt does not equate to an accusation that the organisation is corrupt. That has been explained to you multiple times yet you continue to spin and twist the words.
Here you go again, pretending that I have contended something I haven't.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Which is what I meant by 'a little bit corrupt', i.e. they were corrupt in this decision.
blanch152 wrote: » The decision was corrupt, not the organisation.
blanch152 wrote: » The decision was corrupt, not the organisation. Explained many many times.
Deleted User wrote: » Lads going around in circles at this stage. The long and the short of it is that a senior member of SF has information about the abduction, torture, and murder of a young Irishman. He chooses not to do anything about that. This is a party who wants to be in power. The same party who brought rape victims in front of their rapists to ‘clear the air’, know who is involved in smuggling diesel, and who attended the funeral of a man who was the enforcer for the IRA ‘nutting squad’ - a group who removed genitals with a hacksaw, removed eyes with a screwdriver, and who once shot a mentally handicapped 15 year old. Not a normal party. The only party of their type in Europe tbh. Dark times for Irish democracy.
Brendan Bendar wrote: » I’ve heard it all now. Michelle O’ Neill whose actions were the touchstone for the violence in NI deflecting to blaming the rioters for the unrest. Interviewed by Gavin Jennings she brushed away any blame for sparking the situation and tried to deflect any blame to the rioters. She really has to be honest, stop the rhetoric, the Bobby Storey event was a disaster and as the person who more than most was up front and central needs to stand down immediately. Has to happen. Can’t hide behind ‘rioters’ and claim ‘Nothing to do with me guv’. Game is up.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Loyalists riot, as loyalists routinely do, every fecking year...it's the shinners fault. Funny guys.
Deleted User wrote: » It’s not the Shinners fault. The Storey funeral was a fiasco though. One of your famous online commemorations would have sufficed. Shouldn’t have happened and it was another excuse for demuns to blame demuns. So depressing.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Whose playbook did they take it out of Mark, only the FG FF one. Are you unable to just condemn violence without using the shinner crutch?
markodaly wrote: » What do FG and FF have to do with this? Nothing. I was merely drawing a comparison to the violence yesterday to the violence of yesteryear. I condemn both, but we all know that SF/PIRA would never condemn the violence of yesteryear because it was for a cause.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I said from the start it was a mistake and shouldn't have happened. From my very first post on the issue. Golfgate was a mistake. The Garda Funeral was a mistake. Several Loyalist funerals were a mistake. The SDLP funeral was a mistake. Etc etc etc. People have made mistakes around Covid regulations.
Brendan Bendar wrote: » You seem quite happy with ‘whataboutery’ when your own crowd are involved Francis, everyone mentioned there, yet when SF are pillorying others and the respond with ‘whataboutery’ you play ‘this is a Fine whatever thread. This “mistake “ is a very popular word these days. I’ll tell you what is is- ‘a blatant attempt to illegally gain advantage, but you were caught’. That the definition of ‘mistake’ these days. #o’neillmustgo
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