Belfast Disturbances

downcow wrote: »

It’s very fluid.
It could do anything from fizzle out in weeks to escalate into full blown violent armed conflict that won’t be turned off for years. If the later happens then I feel the south will definitely be pulled in to it as there is extreme anger up hear about how the threat of republican violence was used by Roi to achieve protocol.
I think it is unlikely to escalate as far as armed inter community conflict - but the problem is if someone gets killed eg last night there was interface violence and known ira and Uvf leaders were photographed on the streets (directing or calming - people will believe what they want).
A peace wall gate was breached and each side blames the other. If a young person gets caught on the wrong side and murdered then who knows where this goes.

I fear this weekend will be worse.
A number of protests are being organised. Young people are being invited to attend with faces covered (for covid reasons - a little sarcasm in the invites) with flutes etc. Story funeral has left this next to impossible for police to prevent - or else they are further demonstrating two-tier policing as they helped organise the republican illegal gathering.
Lisburn looks tricky tonight but Belfast looks downright dangerous the following night. There is a call for a parade from Donegal road into west Belfast. I guess the paraders want to be attacked, and they most surely will. In their heads it will be like a civil rights march being attacked.

So I have know idea where this will all be by July. Could have fizzled our or could be very nasty

Sadly I agree with Downcow, this is very dangerous. Of course the young people are being manipulated, but that’s kind of beside the point. If someone gets killed or guns come out then things could escalate very seriously.
This has been coming for a few years, unionism is having a bit of a crisis as it’s influence declines and this is it lashing out. Brexit didn’t deliver like it had hoped, in fact it has only boosted nationalism, which no one expected.
The violence at the intersections is particularly risky.
There isn’t much that can be done, except for calling for calm and hope the police can cope with what’s coming. But there generally are unforeseen consequences when there’s rioting for a period of time.

What needs to be done with Unionists is that someone needs to go out with a loud hailer and tell them again and again that after the May Backstop was rejected by UNIONISTS among others, that it was BORIS JOHNSON who proposed the Protocol, NOT the EU and not Ireland.
Boris proposed it and negotiated it with Jean Claude Junker and AGREED it.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Just rediculous to blame Arlene. I am far from an Arlene admirer. But to blame someone who was driven from her home as a child, then the ira tried to murder her father, then her school bus was bombed. She still remained moderate enough to support the gfa She is not the bigot that she get painted
I think blame mainly falls on those who used the threat of violence to put a border through the middle of our nation eg Leo, and of course the shinners for seemingly given permission to have illegal gatherings

She left the UUP for the DUP because she didn't support the GFA. She has been unable to get over the tradegy of her childhood so won't lead people out of NIs past into a decent future.

Granadino

downcow wrote: »

I agree with all that, but you forgot about the bit about ROI using threat violence to get the protocol. That may come back to bite them on the bum

and now loyalists are actually being violent....

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Loyalists riot every summer somewhere in the north and carry on with the taunting at bonfires etc. Costs a fortune to clean-up after them and to police. It is just starting early this year.
This will go on all summer sadly. People will find it harder to escape to the south to avoid though because of Covid.

A very good reason to reject a united Ireland.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

downcow wrote: »

Boris was dishonest. The dup sleptwalked into it.
I did not vote for brexit, but I am a democrat and my nation did.
It was the Irish protocol which has created the problem

I do wish some posters would try to see things from the Unionist perspective more and try to learn from it rather than adopt a 'my tribe has been attacked and I will defend them at all costs' perspective. And vice versa.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What needs to be done with Unionists is that someone needs to go out with a loud hailer and tell them again and again that after the May Backstop was rejected by UNIONISTS among others, that it was BORIS JOHNSON who proposed the Protocol, NOT the EU and not Ireland.
Boris proposed it and negotiated it with Jean Claude Junker and AGREED it.

I don’t think the situation will be quietened over the next few years with political arguments really, unionism is in disarray and has been facing the abyss for a long time. Belfast now is very different to the 70s, being Protestant doesn’t give you an advantage now, even since the year 2000 it has been a long downward drag for the Protestant side.
Really what’s needed is encouragement for kids to do better in school, have some positive outlets. There’s quite little focus on that, but all this sabre rattling is going on, and these loyalist drug dealers have a bit of undeserved status.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

No they were not for invading themselves, rather they regularly raised the threat of republican violence eg Leo taking a picture of bombed border posts to an Eu dinner. Do you need the link?

The security people at HoC Brexit Committee were saying it long before Leo showed them the problem. Barnier and EU negotiating team made visits to the Border area to meet locals. Merkel met people from there when in Dublin, so the EU and the British government were not getting their info from newspaper articles. The initial warning about the border came from NI security forces and the Gardai 9 (and don't forget the Garda Commissioner is ex PSNI/MI5 whose father was murdered by the PIRA.

blanch152 wrote: »

A very good reason to reject a united Ireland.

For 'you' to reject it.

For me, I have seen the levels of yearly taunting and violence decline as we head towards a normal equal society that is not based on the imposition of an abnormal unbalanced partition.
Restoring the balance on the island represents the best chance of solving this. Turning a blind eye to it, accepting a 'level' of violence' is not an option.

downcow wrote: »

Nonsense. It was Irish republicanism placed the border in the middle of our nation

Imagine thinking it was the Irish people who created an international border in our own country, and not the invading, conquering, imperial nation which has caused countless civil wars in almost 100% of the countries they've occupied through the millennia. I've read some doozies on here over the years, but feck me, that's right up there.

What colour is the sky in the world in which you live?

downcow wrote: »

Just rediculous to blame Arlene. I am far from an Arlene admirer. But to blame someone who was driven from her home as a child, then the ira tried to murder her father, then her school bus was bombed. She still remained moderate enough to support the gfa She is not the bigot that she get painted
I think blame mainly falls on those who used the threat of violence to put a border through the middle of our nation eg Leo, and of course the shinners for seemingly given permission to have illegal gatherings

She left the UUP because of David Trimble's support for the GFA. To say she remained moderate enough to support the GFA is patently nonsense.

downcow wrote: »

Nonsense. It was Irish republicanism placed the border in the middle of our nation

Eh? Care to explain that?

downcow wrote: »

Boris was dishonest. The dup sleptwalked into it.
I did not vote for brexit, but I am a democrat and my nation did.
It was the Irish protocol which has created the problem

The protocol that Boris Johnson and his team designed? That's the problem?

malinheader wrote: »

Not going to happen. Seen a crowd at the front of a land rover last night throwing a pallet.
Don't think another section of the community would get as close without being severely dealt with.

Ah c'mon. Both sections of the community get treated the same way when it comes to a riot situation. Did you see the footage of Gerry Kelly from a few years ago hanging off the front of a landrover?

Tbf it is because of Brexit that the so called sea border is there, it’s definitely not on the Republic of Ireland.
Unionists could have backed May and avoided it. Realistically the sea border is really not going to be much of an issue in the longer term, will have nothing like the impact that a more substantial north-south border would have had.

whisky_galore

I think we have enough anti social knackers on this side without welcoming more cnuts into the fold who just want to riot and burn stuff.
United Ireland, no fcuking thanks.

malinheader

Penfailed wrote: »

Ah c'mon. Both sections of the community get treated the same way when it comes to a riot situation. Did you see the footage of Gerry Kelly from a few years ago hanging off the front of a landrover?

When I see the plastic bullets being used It might bear some resemblance to the way one side were treated

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/british-government-knew-of-dangerous-deficiencies-in-use-of-rubber-bullets-1.1423988

malinheader wrote: »

When I see the plastic bullets being used It might bear some resemblance to the way one side were treated

The rubber bullet, later to become the plastic bullet was developed to be used against the nationalist/republican side.

Three died from rubber bullets and 14 from plastic bullets which were introduced in the mid-1970s. Eight of the 17 were children and all but one was Catholic.

Granadino

They're (SF) banging on about "accommodating" loyalists in any "new Ireland". I'm sure some unionists would be ok in a united Ireland under certain conditions, but there are a certain number who will never be accommodated or don't want to be (Gregory Campbell for example on Claire Byrne summed it up a few weeks ago), and I don't know what the solution is. The island of Ireland is their home as well, so what do you do? Pay them to move across the water, which is wrong, or what?

malinheader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The rubber bullet, later to become the plastic bullet was developed to be used against the nationalist/republican side.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/british-government-knew-of-dangerous-deficiencies-in-use-of-rubber-bullets-1.1423988

Shocking. As far as I remember they were supposed to be fired off the ground first but rarely were.

malinheader wrote: »

Shocking. As far as I remember they were supposed to be fired off the ground first but rarely were.

Saw how they were used with my own eyes, fired straight at peaceful protestors at border road closing.

downcow wrote: »

That’s exactly the issue and why the calls for chief con to resign. Sf give them their plan and not once did psni say there was a problem

They did tell them was a problem. They went ahead anyway.

trixi001

Hopefully, the nationalists area will know better than to respond...

Let it play out between the loyalists and the PSNI, just like the flag protests did.

Also in typical NI form, the Executive & Media only care when it is Belfast rioting...There has been serious rioting in the Waterside in Derry for about the last week, and no where near the level of concern and coverage that 1 night of rioting in Belfast gets...

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/derry-residents-fear-more-trouble-as-they-are-left-to-pick-up-pieces-40282750.html

An Claidheamh

downcow wrote: »

Nonsense. It was Irish republicanism placed the border in the middle of our nation

Are you the guy who set himself on fire?

steddyeddy

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Are you the guy who set himself on fire?

No, that was Gerry Adams if Arlene is to be believed.

RandomViewer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The rubber bullet, later to become the plastic bullet was developed to be used against the nationalist/republican side.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/british-government-knew-of-dangerous-deficiencies-in-use-of-rubber-bullets-1.1423988

https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/issues/violence/rubberplasticbullet.htm
Names to the statistics