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The way forward for LC2021

History Queen

I'm interested in the views of other teachers as to what should happen to assess the work of LC2021 students. With growing calls for cancellation of the exams and predicted grades, I fear we are sleep walking in to a repeat of last year's debacle.

My personal view is the exams should go ahead as scheduled but perhaps a further review of papers to allow for more choice should happen, suggestions submitted from subject associations maybe?

As regards projects/orals/practicals I can only speak to my own subjects. In History I feel the project should go ahead as planned.

What do others think?

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Mmmml80

Hi all, has anyone heard anything about marking the orals? I’ve applied but heard nothing yet. Thanks!

am_zarathustra

Actually has anyone heard back about any of the exam correcting. I got my usual letter to confirm and returned by email but haven't heard anything since.

Random sample

Mmmml80 wrote: »

Hi all, has anyone heard anything about marking the orals? I’ve applied but heard nothing yet. Thanks!

Same. I don’t expect to hear until the date for sitting them has passed. They have no idea how many they have until they are all done.

Same for summer marking, they don’t really know how many they will have until the final date for change of mind passes.

km79

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0401/1207337-disconnect-work/

Department of Education please take note

Random sample

km79 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0401/1207337-disconnect-work/

Department of Education please take note

I wonder will that have any effect on the Friday evening info drop?

I know my principal is often caught between wanting to inform us and not wanting to encroach on our personal time.

km79

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0021_2021.pdf

35 pages

rainbowtrout

Random sample wrote: »

I wonder will that have any effect on the Friday evening info drop?

I know my principal is often caught between wanting to inform us and not wanting to encroach on our personal time.

It’s one thing a principal sending out emails after hours if they don’t expect a response to them until the following day/ Monday. It’s another if they are sending out emails and expecting a response.

Just chatting with friends from work on WhatsApp and one of them mentioned doing some particular inservice in May. Seemingly an email was sent out by principal in the last few days asking if people wanted to do it and clearly there are way too many staff in my school logging in to check their email and responding. He uses that to his advantage.

And then they wonder why we have poor working conditions. I’m on holidays. I’m not checking my emails.

Bobtheman

Not looking forward to last term.
I have some records on my 6th years. But I don't think I'm fit to judge them overall. NO mock.
Then into the mix comes the fact that our grades last year were marked down even though they were well within the past performance of our school.
Thus do I simply inflate my grades which I'm not entirely sure of-given I have never corrected for the SEC? Then take a swig of whiskey and hope for the best?
The department guidelines are useless as you'd expect. The whole thing is farcical.

Random sample

Bobtheman wrote: »

Not looking forward to last term.
I have some records on my 6th years. But I don't think I'm fit to judge them overall. NO mock.
Then into the mix comes the fact that our grades last year were marked down even though they were well within the past performance of our school.
Thus do I simply inflate my grades which I'm not entirely sure of-given I have never corrected for the SEC? Then take a swig of whiskey and hope for the best?
The department guidelines are useless as you'd expect. The whole thing is farcical.

Have a look at your schools past performance, the performance of your students at junior cycle and the national average for your subject. All of the teachers in your department should be sitting down and working out grades within what is normal for those.

Bobtheman

Random sample wrote: »

Have a look at your schools past performance, the performance of your students at junior cycle and the national average for your subject. All of the teachers in your department should be sitting down and working out grades within what is normal for those.

I don't think you read my post fully. We kept within past performances. Perhaps we didn't look at the JC result but I'm not sure that had to be done last year?
Boys in particular don't take the JC that seriously.
Plus is it fair to not assume kids can improve after 2 years??
No rhyme or reason to their system

Bobtheman

We kept within past performances and were still screwed.
Thus this year I'm inflating. The department will screw it up whatever you do
We are a Deis school.

History Queen

It's such a crap situation with predicted grades, with the best will in the world it is still a guess, albeit an educated one to as much a degree as you can.

Random sample

Bobtheman wrote: »

I don't think you read my post fully. We kept within past performances. Perhaps we didn't look at the JC result but I'm not sure that had to be done last year?
Boys in particular don't take the JC that seriously.
Plus is it fair to not assume kids can improve after 2 years??
No rhyme or reason to their system

I read your post. Junior cert results for each cohort were used last year. Might not be fair for students who didn’t know it would go towards their leaving cert, but same can be said for 5th year Christmas exams, which are the last exams I have that i fully trust as a marker of ability and possible outcomes for leaving cert. past performance and national average together is what i suggested, not just looking at one over another.

Again, if you have other teachers in your department, your method is going to affect their students too, unless the department agrees to use the method as a whole and let the algorithm do the work.

Nothing about any of this is fair.

Bobtheman

It's the prisoners dilemma. Unless we both inflate..
What was the algorithm last year?

Newbie20

I wouldn’t be worrying too much about it this year as long as the exams go ahead. Students can do the exam if they want. If they don’t then that’s their own choice and they have to take what they get.

If they do the exam then they get the best of the predicted grade or exam anyway. So the way I see it, this year a student can have no complaints really whatever happens.

rainbowtrout

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Actually has anyone heard back about any of the exam correcting. I got my usual letter to confirm and returned by email but haven't heard anything since.

When did you get the letter? My subject has a new course and we all got an email telling us that we would have to reapply to mark this year (i.e. no automatic appointments from last year).

am_zarathustra

rainbowtrout wrote: »

When did you get the letter? My subject has a new course and we all got an email telling us that we would have to reapply to mark this year (i.e. no automatic appointments from last year).

End of February or very early March. Big subject, it'll be in the top 3/4 subjects being taken if not the most popular I'd say. Normal paperwork, just confirm you will

gaiscioch

Are most of your students sitting the LC? Mine are, or at least they said they will be. I'd be surprised if they didn't as they know last year's class had a number of students marked down by the SEC from the grade I gave.

That said, in other subjects (all HL, too), most students didn't show for the Mocks, or 'practice tests'. A majority seem to have opted for a grade rather than sitting the exam in English especially as LC results are poor and they could spend the time on another subject.

Aquals

Only one student in my class of 24 is not sitting the written LC exam. When they saw how much choice they were getting on this year’s paper, they all felt fairly well vindicated in their decision too!

am_zarathustra

It's dependent on subjects entirely. Huge numbers for biology, maths, geog, etc but very low in languages!

Mardy Bum

am_zarathustra wrote: »

It's dependent on subjects entirely. Huge numbers for biology, maths, geog, etc but very low in languages!

I don't think students are being informed about the nature of the bell curve. There is a belief that everyone can get "better" grades now the exams are "easier".

Treppen

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I don't think students are being informed about the nature of the bell curve. There is a belief that everyone can get "better" grades now the exams are "easier".

Students are Clever enough, if 100 people get 100% in all questions and there is zero room for marking down then applying bell curve is useless.

Aquals

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I don't think students are being informed about the nature of the bell curve. There is a belief that everyone can get "better" grades now the exams are "easier".

I think that the way my students are seeing it is that they can now get “the same grade” for much less work.

So if they would have gotten a H3 in the traditional leaving cert, they believe that it’s worth lashing in a bit of work to get that grade this year as an insurance policy against the accredited grade.

am_zarathustra

They are not wrong, without knowing the interplay of standardisation between accredited and the exam it's a sensible approach

shesty

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/most-leaving-cert-students-opt-to-sit-written-exams-in-june-1.4534522?mode=amp

An interesting breakdown of numbers.

skippy1977

shesty wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/most-leaving-cert-students-opt-to-sit-written-exams-in-june-1.4534522?mode=amp

An interesting breakdown of numbers.

All the students in our place (and I'm sure everywhere else) were told to make sure to tick the box to say they are sitting the exam, even if they had no intention of doing so. I'd say this article is completely meaningless.

am_zarathustra

Definitely, ours told the same. The irish etc is down to students not seeing much margin for improvement and the oral being quite soon after!

rainbowtrout

I’d agree. When the portal opens again this make the or in May those numbers will change. Interesting to see the high numbers in science subjects. Unsurprising though.

derb12

I can't see that IT article behind the paywall, but I read earlier that some very small % had opted for exam only?
https://www.thejournal.ie/leaving-cert-2021-accredited-grades-choice-irish-5407270-Apr2021/
Eg in Irish: "946 students, or 2%, will take the Irish exam and have turned down the option of an accredited grade."
How will that work? I had understood that we would be working out accredited grades for every student.

Random sample

derb12 wrote: »

I can't see that IT article behind the paywall, but I read earlier that some very small % had opted for exam only?
https://www.thejournal.ie/leaving-cert-2021-accredited-grades-choice-irish-5407270-Apr2021/
Eg in Irish: "946 students, or 2%, will take the Irish exam and have turned down the option of an accredited grade."
How will that work? I had understood that we would be working out accredited grades for every student.

They could be students without a teacher. Maybe students who are repeated higher level Irish for primary teaching. If they are in our classes we are required to provide them with an accredited grade even if they don’t apply for it, in case of illness or isolation when the exam is on.