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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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coolbeans

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

The DUP held the balance of power under Teresa May. They refused to support her deal which would have preserved NI's position within the UK. Then they supported the mendacious and amoral Johnson who, predictably, sold them out after lying to their faces. He's no buffoon, he knew he'd lose the least political capital by betraying the wildly unpopular DUPers and the people of NI who are seen in England as simply a bunch of squabbling paddies, the orange tradition included. This is entirely unionism's doing. It's time to stop with the victim narrative and move along.

An Claidheamh

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's one thing to protest about something, but if you asked them what should replace it, they wouldn't have a clue. The British media don't care about it because to them it's an "Irish" problem.

History shows when we offer a reasonable solution they suddenly regard it as an “internal British problem”

Until others put some manners on them

An Claidheamh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

May was in Brussels ready to do the Deal.. The documentary, Storyville Brexit: Behind Closed Doors, has video of the fallout of when May says she can't do it because of the DUP. It's the famous one where they just go mental privatelt and talk about her being pathetic for not having the DUP onside already.

A small part of it is in the promo on this page: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-bbc-documentary-behind-closed-doors-barnier-verhofstadt-a8904156.html

The documentary is well worth a watch.

Her own fault, she should have stood up to them

An Claidheamh

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They had a point about the RCC, far too much control, the place was practically a theocracy. Partition allowed the worst elements to come to prominence in the north and south. However, the RCC in the south has been largely neutered.

In the north the largest Unionist party are dominated by a paleo-conservative sect known as 'Free Presbyterians', a lot of the members, and elected representatives, are in the Orange Order and they still routinely consult with unionist drugs/racketeering gangs on social policies.

What the Official Ireland narrative refuses to accept is that when British/Northern Protestants complain of Catholic control - they mean as opposed to full Protestant control

Protestantism is a basis of British identity along with Monarchy

Just like equality for nationalists was seen as “oppression” for unionists

Irish are “nationalist” because they are Irish nationals not British nationals

They are not secular and UK has never been a secular constitutional country (just a past of sectarianism)

They were against “Rome Rule” as they felt the British Monarch was giving them Protestant Rule and preferential treatment for being Protestant - which, of course, was true

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exports from here to GB fell in January. Exports from here to NI increased. The Protocol is a potential jobs bonanza for the North.

The lads out rioting wouldn't be looking for jobs, that could be seen as a threat to their culture

BanditLuke

Bye bye Loyalists. Head back to the mainland your time is up.

jimmycrackcorm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The young lads out rioting wouldn’t have a notion about the sea border, but they are being whipped up by unionist leaders. The leaders need to tone it down a bit.

It's one thing to protest about something, but if you asked them what should replace it, they wouldn't have a clue. The British media don't care about it because to them it's an "Irish" problem.

[Deleted User]

May was in Brussels ready to do the Deal.. The documentary, Storyville Brexit: Behind Closed Doors, has video of the fallout of when May says she can't do it because of the DUP. It's the famous one where they just go mental privatelt and talk about her being pathetic for not having the DUP onside already.

A small part of it is in the promo on this page: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-bbc-documentary-behind-closed-doors-barnier-verhofstadt-a8904156.html

The documentary is well worth a watch.

lawred2

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I find it amusing how loyalists are blaming the EU for the protocol. The UK government shafted them in the sense they said there would be no sea border and signed a deal with the EU agreeing to a sea border, you even had senior tory mps disputing there even is a sea border this year. Yet they only blame the EU. The levels of delusion are unreal.

Another thing they give out about is that it goes against the will the of the people in the North. Conveniently forgetting the North voted to remain in the EU. Anyway Unionist leadership shot themselves in the foot backing Brexit. They said no to May's agreement, the ERG said they would back it if it had Unionist support. If they had said yes there would be no sea border now. Clowns galore.

Wouldn't have believed that empty promise for a second

They'd have found another reason to shaft Theresa May

[Deleted User]

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I find it amusing how loyalists are blaming the EU for the protocol. The UK government shafted them in the sense they said there would be no sea border and signed a deal with the EU agreeing to a sea border, you even had senior tory mps disputing there even is a sea border this year. Yet they only blame the EU. The levels of delusion are unreal.

Another thing they give out about is that it goes against the will the of the people in the North. Conveniently forgetting the North voted to remain in the EU. Anyway Unionist leadership shot themselves in the foot backing Brexit. They said no to May's agreement, the ERG said they would back it if it had Unionist support. If they had said yes there would be no sea border now. Clowns galore.

Their position makes no sense, the UK government, their government, agreed it! Totally shout themselves in the foot. Really clear that many of the unionists who backed Brexit did so in the hope it could strengthen the union, but that wasn’t very realistic. It is a fierce psychological blow for unionism, and has made the north more unstable. This summer could be quite bad, and if it is it’ll be the poor unfortunates from the poorest parts of the North that’ll have their cars damaged and end up with criminal records. Unionist people need some leadership now but it doesn’t seem to be there.

briany

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The young lads out rioting wouldn’t have a notion about the sea border, but they are being whipped up by unionist leaders. The leaders need to tone it down a bit.

Yes, if those leaders up the ante then they'll only hurt their cause. Violence over the sea border doesn't really have much popular support, and among those who might have been ambivalent about violence 40 or 50 years ago, the appetite for more is gone.

Tyrone212

I find it amusing how loyalists are blaming the EU for the protocol. The UK government shafted them in the sense they said there would be no sea border and signed a deal with the EU agreeing to a sea border, you even had senior tory mps disputing there even is a sea border this year. Yet they only blame the EU. The levels of delusion are unreal.

Another thing they give out about is that it goes against the will the of the people in the North. Conveniently forgetting the North voted to remain in the EU. Anyway Unionist leadership shot themselves in the foot backing Brexit. They said no to May's agreement, the ERG said they would back it if it had Unionist support. If they had said yes there would be no sea border now. Clowns galore.

[Deleted User]

briany wrote: »

The sea border is in place because it's easier to run it. The sea border is also in place because it has greater political and economic backing than the land one. Let's think back to Arlene Foster's meeting with NI business leaders a couple of years ago. Foster was annoyed when she realised the consensus was that the proposed backstop of the time was welcome. In 2019, 49 MLAs sent letters of support for the backstop to Donald Tusk. That was a majority of the NI assembly.

Not only that, but the current situation is not even permanent, or at least doesn't have to be, because there is a legal, democratic mechanism to cancel it and go back to the drawing board. No violence needed. So, why violence? Well it's obviously a language that paramilitaries are comfortable with using, but also I have to wonder if Loyalists see no way out of the sea border without violence, i.e. they don't have confidence of getting it voted down.

As I've always said, Brexit, or at least the Brexit as imagined by the ERG types, is incompatible with the GFA because it necessitates a border somewhere as the UK seeks to diverge with the EU on standards. But if a border absolutely has to go somewhere, then it *will* go somewhere, and it went somewhere the DUP do not like. Saying, 'well, Varadkar was threatening that the IRA would start up again if there was a land border" isn't really a point. Both Varadkar and Foster raised concerns of potential violence, but if there's going to be violence wherever this border goes then the point is moot, and it becomes a question of which violence is the more manageable. So far, the violence shown by some hoods in Belfast doesn't exactly rise above the general hum of an average marching season, so no-one really cares.

The young lads out rioting wouldn’t have a notion about the sea border, but they are being whipped up by unionist leaders. The leaders need to tone it down a bit.

Dyr

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

Indeed, if theres one thing that Unionism is renowned for its a willingness to compromise.

This is what I like about our northern brethern, necks like a jockeys bollix.

briany

The sea border is in place because it's easier to run it. The sea border is also in place because it has greater political and economic backing than the land one. Let's think back to Arlene Foster's meeting with NI business leaders a couple of years ago. Foster was annoyed when she realised the consensus was that the proposed backstop of the time was welcome. In 2019, 49 MLAs sent letters of support for the backstop to Donald Tusk. That was a majority of the NI assembly.

Not only that, but the current situation is not even permanent, or at least doesn't have to be, because there is a legal, democratic mechanism to cancel it and go back to the drawing board. No violence needed. So, why violence? Well it's obviously a language that paramilitaries are comfortable with using, but also I have to wonder if Loyalists see no way out of the sea border without violence, i.e. they don't have confidence of getting it voted down.

As I've always said, Brexit, or at least the Brexit as imagined by the ERG types, is incompatible with the GFA because it necessitates a border somewhere as the UK seeks to diverge with the EU on standards. But if a border absolutely has to go somewhere, then it *will* go somewhere, and it went somewhere the DUP do not like. Saying, 'well, Varadkar was threatening that the IRA would start up again if there was a land border" isn't really a point. Both Varadkar and Foster raised concerns of potential violence, but if there's going to be violence wherever this border goes then the point is moot, and it becomes a question of which violence is the more manageable. So far, the violence shown by some hoods in Belfast doesn't exactly rise above the general hum of an average marching season, so no-one really cares.

[Deleted User]

Am down south at the moment and haven’t been in the north for ages due to Covid. But I’d be amazed if any of those attacking the PSNI know a thing about sea borders. Doubt they give a damn about the Bobby Storey funeral either, but their leaders are manipulating them, plus a riot can be surprisingly good craic.
Am concerned about the north, unionism is in crisis for years now, and it’ll only get worse if the census shows a Protestant minority and especially if they lose the first ministers office. Even if the union continues them they’ll always be on the back foot compared to what was the case. Expect a lot more trouble from the Protestant side, sadly.

Zebra3

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Does anyone else find the footage of the teenagers who don't have a clue what this is really about chucking petrol bombs at psni and getting set sight absolutely unacceptable?

I think it was eight of the lads arrested for injuring the cops the other night were in their teens.

Why don't the people who are old enough to understand the nuance go and fight if it's so pivotal? Why send in kids?

That's the way it always is.

Did you see Bush or Blair fighting in Iraq?

joseywhales

fritzelly wrote: »

Haven't watched the news in days - anyone care to give a one sentence explanation as to whats going on or is it the usual rubbish up there, someone not happy so start a riot?

kids without prospects throw things at police, to give their hopeless live's meaning.

fritzelly

Haven't watched the news in days - anyone care to give a one sentence explanation as to whats going on or is it the usual rubbish up there, someone not happy so start a riot?

shtpEdthePlum

Does anyone else find the footage of the teenagers who don't have a clue what this is really about chucking petrol bombs at psni and getting set sight absolutely unacceptable?

I think it was eight of the lads arrested for injuring the cops the other night were in their teens.

Why don't the people who are old enough to understand the nuance go and fight if it's so pivotal? Why send in kids?

[Deleted User]

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The cost of living for those in NIRL is going to rocket if Sterling continues going in the direction it is.

Nonsense, irrelevant to this thread and “rocket” is a sensational comment, goods are moving more freely between Belfast and GB with every passing day.

Anyway rate is stable over the last few years and the same as 2009 so not sure what data you are looking at.

https://www.ofx.com/en-au/forex-news/historical-exchange-rates/yearly-average-rates/

Atlantic Dawn

The cost of living for those in NIRL is going to rocket if Sterling continues going in the direction it is.

dd973

The DUP effectively put them in this situation by toadying to the Tories and being full on Brexiteers, not much point in getting all sectarian and going after the 'taigs' who've done nothing to bring this about.

These riots might pass and not escalate though, there's a contrived choreographed aspect to them like previous ones.

joseywhales

Fundamentally, as long as unionists want to be part of a union that does not actually want them, there will be endless frustration. Fair play for hanging on though!

Larbre34

There are more important things in life than low taxes. Like nationhood, for example.

We spend too much on frivolous crap in this Country anyway.

Yyhhuuu

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is no middle ground. It's zero sum. Border on the island or in the Irish sea. They chose the sea.

A physical border was never going to be put in place and neither part of Ireland voted for Brexit. The consultation was the Brexit referendum. The DUP, dinosaurs they are believed the Tories would never throw them under the bus. Yet they have again and again and again.

Hard to see where the complaints come from.

The people to blame are the tories and the DUP.

If a united Ireland is ever proposed would the UK government be expected to compensate the Irish State for anticipated costs of subsidising Northern Ireland as it is heavily subsidised by London at present?

I would like to see a united Ireland but not if my taxes rise to finance the North's economy.

I'm not particularly Political but my ancestors were and heavily involved in the establishment of the Irish free state and a close relative was a founding member of Sinn Fein. Forgive me if this is off topic.

Kermit.de.frog

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on the British identity and Union.

- We didn’t get to vote on it.
- Unionist people weren’t consulted.
- Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
- There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
- Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

There is no middle ground. It's zero sum. Border on the island or in the Irish sea. They chose the sea.

A physical border was never going to be put in place and neither part of Ireland voted for Brexit. The consultation was the Brexit referendum. The DUP, dinosaurs they are believed the Tories would never throw them under the bus. Yet they have again and again and again.

Hard to see where the complaints come from.

The people to blame are the tories and the DUP.

Junkyard Tom

They had a point about the RCC, far too much control, the place was practically a theocracy. Partition allowed the worst elements to come to prominence in the north and south. However, the RCC in the south has been largely neutered.

In the north the largest Unionist party are dominated by a paleo-conservative sect known as 'Free Presbyterians', a lot of the members, and elected representatives, are in the Orange Order and they still routinely consult with unionist drugs/racketeering gangs on social policies.

igCorcaigh

This is probably OT, but an interesting insight, I think, to the nuances of identity in NI pre-troubles (1965).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujPmomkHMr4

[Deleted User]

obi604 wrote: »

Apologies, haven’t really looked at news in a few days.

What are the Belfast riots about?

Bunch of skanks bored with the Covid-19 restrictions decided to cause a kerfuffle and are using "themmuns EU Amazon packages" as an excuse.

(well, that's one explanation 'n'all'n'anyways)