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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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igCorcaigh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Looking at the footage, is there even 20 people causing hassle? You'll see this nonsense all through the summer now. Who is going to pay any attention really, in terms of the Protocol etc.

No one.
What can really be done about the protocol though?

The resistance to it is understandable, just another nasty effect of Brexit.
But there is no way that that can of worms can be opened again, either by UK or EU.
It's done.

RandomViewer

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Could have done with it last night for that f*ckwit that managed to set himself on fire

He'll have to show up at A&E, whatever suspended sentences he likely has will be activated,

igCorcaigh

Carrickfergus now too.

What do you think will be the strategy of these protests/riots?

I can't see the Brexit agreement being unravelled, surely the Loyalist leaders know that.
So, just throw some sh1t and see what sticks?

Atlantic Dawn

Looking at the vaccine roll out the marching season will be back in full swing this year, more carnage.

igCorcaigh

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Looking at the vaccine roll out the marching season will be back in full swing this year, more carnage.

Ah hardly.

I remember the Drumcree standoff back in, 1996?
Mad stuff.

Nqp15hhu

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

UDAWINNER

Unionists wanted Brexit, The DUP agreed with the Protocol. Everyone elses fault.
Loyalists must be very dim to keep supporting them

igCorcaigh

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

I suppose they thought that a hard border between North/South was the worse option?
But I agree, NI is a nation of compromises, has to be that way.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

What were Brexiteers expecting?

They were told again and again the Single market and Customs Union where not going to be set aside for them.

Junkyard Tom

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

The Protocol is the compromise. We could be much much more strict about the whole thing.

Things are about to get a whole lot worse for British exporters to the EU but not exporters from the north of Ireland. You could say we saved Unionist politicians from themselves.

[Deleted User]

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

There's no strict agreement and lots of compromise. The problem - for the purposes of this thread - is in two parts. One is the failure of the British government to do even the basic things it said it would do under the agreement to keep goods moving freely. The other is that you didn't bother reading the same thing when I posted it earlier in the thread. You're just moaning for moaning's sake at this stage.

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The Protocol is the compromise. We could be much much more strict about the whole thing.

Things are about to get a whole lot worse for British exporters to the EU but not exporters from the north of Ireland. You could say we saved Unionist politicians from themselves.

Exports from here to GB fell in January. Exports from here to NI increased. The Protocol is a potential jobs bonanza for the North.

[Deleted User]

obi604 wrote: »

Apologies, haven’t really looked at news in a few days.

What are the Belfast riots about?

Bunch of skanks bored with the Covid-19 restrictions decided to cause a kerfuffle and are using "themmuns EU Amazon packages" as an excuse.

(well, that's one explanation 'n'all'n'anyways)

igCorcaigh

This is probably OT, but an interesting insight, I think, to the nuances of identity in NI pre-troubles (1965).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujPmomkHMr4

Junkyard Tom

They had a point about the RCC, far too much control, the place was practically a theocracy. Partition allowed the worst elements to come to prominence in the north and south. However, the RCC in the south has been largely neutered.

In the north the largest Unionist party are dominated by a paleo-conservative sect known as 'Free Presbyterians', a lot of the members, and elected representatives, are in the Orange Order and they still routinely consult with unionist drugs/racketeering gangs on social policies.

Kermit.de.frog

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on the British identity and Union.

- We didn’t get to vote on it.
- Unionist people weren’t consulted.
- Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
- There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
- Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

There is no middle ground. It's zero sum. Border on the island or in the Irish sea. They chose the sea.

A physical border was never going to be put in place and neither part of Ireland voted for Brexit. The consultation was the Brexit referendum. The DUP, dinosaurs they are believed the Tories would never throw them under the bus. Yet they have again and again and again.

Hard to see where the complaints come from.

The people to blame are the tories and the DUP.

Yyhhuuu

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is no middle ground. It's zero sum. Border on the island or in the Irish sea. They chose the sea.

A physical border was never going to be put in place and neither part of Ireland voted for Brexit. The consultation was the Brexit referendum. The DUP, dinosaurs they are believed the Tories would never throw them under the bus. Yet they have again and again and again.

Hard to see where the complaints come from.

The people to blame are the tories and the DUP.

If a united Ireland is ever proposed would the UK government be expected to compensate the Irish State for anticipated costs of subsidising Northern Ireland as it is heavily subsidised by London at present?

I would like to see a united Ireland but not if my taxes rise to finance the North's economy.

I'm not particularly Political but my ancestors were and heavily involved in the establishment of the Irish free state and a close relative was a founding member of Sinn Fein. Forgive me if this is off topic.

Larbre34

There are more important things in life than low taxes. Like nationhood, for example.

We spend too much on frivolous crap in this Country anyway.

joseywhales

Fundamentally, as long as unionists want to be part of a union that does not actually want them, there will be endless frustration. Fair play for hanging on though!

dd973

The DUP effectively put them in this situation by toadying to the Tories and being full on Brexiteers, not much point in getting all sectarian and going after the 'taigs' who've done nothing to bring this about.

These riots might pass and not escalate though, there's a contrived choreographed aspect to them like previous ones.

Atlantic Dawn

The cost of living for those in NIRL is going to rocket if Sterling continues going in the direction it is.

[Deleted User]

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The cost of living for those in NIRL is going to rocket if Sterling continues going in the direction it is.

Nonsense, irrelevant to this thread and “rocket” is a sensational comment, goods are moving more freely between Belfast and GB with every passing day.

Anyway rate is stable over the last few years and the same as 2009 so not sure what data you are looking at.

https://www.ofx.com/en-au/forex-news/historical-exchange-rates/yearly-average-rates/

shtpEdthePlum

Does anyone else find the footage of the teenagers who don't have a clue what this is really about chucking petrol bombs at psni and getting set sight absolutely unacceptable?

I think it was eight of the lads arrested for injuring the cops the other night were in their teens.

Why don't the people who are old enough to understand the nuance go and fight if it's so pivotal? Why send in kids?

fritzelly

Haven't watched the news in days - anyone care to give a one sentence explanation as to whats going on or is it the usual rubbish up there, someone not happy so start a riot?

joseywhales

fritzelly wrote: »

Haven't watched the news in days - anyone care to give a one sentence explanation as to whats going on or is it the usual rubbish up there, someone not happy so start a riot?

kids without prospects throw things at police, to give their hopeless live's meaning.

Zebra3

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Does anyone else find the footage of the teenagers who don't have a clue what this is really about chucking petrol bombs at psni and getting set sight absolutely unacceptable?

I think it was eight of the lads arrested for injuring the cops the other night were in their teens.

Why don't the people who are old enough to understand the nuance go and fight if it's so pivotal? Why send in kids?

That's the way it always is.

Did you see Bush or Blair fighting in Iraq?

[Deleted User]

Am down south at the moment and haven’t been in the north for ages due to Covid. But I’d be amazed if any of those attacking the PSNI know a thing about sea borders. Doubt they give a damn about the Bobby Storey funeral either, but their leaders are manipulating them, plus a riot can be surprisingly good craic.
Am concerned about the north, unionism is in crisis for years now, and it’ll only get worse if the census shows a Protestant minority and especially if they lose the first ministers office. Even if the union continues them they’ll always be on the back foot compared to what was the case. Expect a lot more trouble from the Protestant side, sadly.

briany

The sea border is in place because it's easier to run it. The sea border is also in place because it has greater political and economic backing than the land one. Let's think back to Arlene Foster's meeting with NI business leaders a couple of years ago. Foster was annoyed when she realised the consensus was that the proposed backstop of the time was welcome. In 2019, 49 MLAs sent letters of support for the backstop to Donald Tusk. That was a majority of the NI assembly.

Not only that, but the current situation is not even permanent, or at least doesn't have to be, because there is a legal, democratic mechanism to cancel it and go back to the drawing board. No violence needed. So, why violence? Well it's obviously a language that paramilitaries are comfortable with using, but also I have to wonder if Loyalists see no way out of the sea border without violence, i.e. they don't have confidence of getting it voted down.

As I've always said, Brexit, or at least the Brexit as imagined by the ERG types, is incompatible with the GFA because it necessitates a border somewhere as the UK seeks to diverge with the EU on standards. But if a border absolutely has to go somewhere, then it *will* go somewhere, and it went somewhere the DUP do not like. Saying, 'well, Varadkar was threatening that the IRA would start up again if there was a land border" isn't really a point. Both Varadkar and Foster raised concerns of potential violence, but if there's going to be violence wherever this border goes then the point is moot, and it becomes a question of which violence is the more manageable. So far, the violence shown by some hoods in Belfast doesn't exactly rise above the general hum of an average marching season, so no-one really cares.

Dyr

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

Indeed, if theres one thing that Unionism is renowned for its a willingness to compromise.

This is what I like about our northern brethern, necks like a jockeys bollix.

[Deleted User]

briany wrote: »

The sea border is in place because it's easier to run it. The sea border is also in place because it has greater political and economic backing than the land one. Let's think back to Arlene Foster's meeting with NI business leaders a couple of years ago. Foster was annoyed when she realised the consensus was that the proposed backstop of the time was welcome. In 2019, 49 MLAs sent letters of support for the backstop to Donald Tusk. That was a majority of the NI assembly.

Not only that, but the current situation is not even permanent, or at least doesn't have to be, because there is a legal, democratic mechanism to cancel it and go back to the drawing board. No violence needed. So, why violence? Well it's obviously a language that paramilitaries are comfortable with using, but also I have to wonder if Loyalists see no way out of the sea border without violence, i.e. they don't have confidence of getting it voted down.

As I've always said, Brexit, or at least the Brexit as imagined by the ERG types, is incompatible with the GFA because it necessitates a border somewhere as the UK seeks to diverge with the EU on standards. But if a border absolutely has to go somewhere, then it *will* go somewhere, and it went somewhere the DUP do not like. Saying, 'well, Varadkar was threatening that the IRA would start up again if there was a land border" isn't really a point. Both Varadkar and Foster raised concerns of potential violence, but if there's going to be violence wherever this border goes then the point is moot, and it becomes a question of which violence is the more manageable. So far, the violence shown by some hoods in Belfast doesn't exactly rise above the general hum of an average marching season, so no-one really cares.

The young lads out rioting wouldn’t have a notion about the sea border, but they are being whipped up by unionist leaders. The leaders need to tone it down a bit.