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Belfast Disturbances

Lougho

So approaching a disjointed marching season in North of Ireland for a second year running, Sandyrow and The waterside in Derry have now erupted with violent clashes.

Sandyrow seen officers injured and it is being blamed on the Irish sea border, within the community it seems the Royal bar leadership were arching up the tensions the past few weeks with banners at the front of the bar.

Is the LCC committed to non violent means or is it more Smoke and mirrors from the UDA and UVF. Donegal pass under the UVF and Sandyrow both came to a standstill last night.

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ILoveYourVibes

Padre_Pio wrote: »

At least our lads know they're on extremely thin ice.

Do they though??

I reckon FF does but they still got in. FG not so much.

Kermit.de.frog

The north was always going to be a place apart with Brexit.

Unionists say it was a UK vote even though a majority voted to remain.

OK well the flip side of that is that the UK has decided to partially amputate a part of it to get it's way.

Can't complain now. Can't say it was a UK vote and at the same time complain about UK actions.

ILoveYourVibes

Ireland was just minding its own business ...WHEN ...yet its our fault.

Hotblack Desiato

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Yet it's the opposite of it.
It seems that the government in London cares not a jot for the regions.

Nonetheless, taking the UK as a whole, that's democracy.

Of course what renders it even more farcical is that none of the main GB parties run candidates in NI.

ILoveYourVibes

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Nonetheless, taking the UK as a whole, that's democracy.

Of course what renders it even more farcical is that none of the main GB parties run candidates in NI.

They do!

The Tories contested 4 seats in NI last general election.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-2019/northern-ireland-conservatives-to-contest-four-seats-in-general-election-38686719.html

Lab refused to though last elections. But they did in last elections before that.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/labour-document-rules-out-running-candidates-in-ni-as-irresponsible-38515298.html

They never get anywhere though.

Hotblack Desiato

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

They say “U.K. parliament voted for this”, yes they did. But what use is an MP from Hemel Hempstead to me, they don’t understand NI, and they don’t care about the impacts of this Protocol.

Put history and tribalism and religion to one side.

Does unionism really represent your best interests?

Since partition NI has spent 100 years going backwards economically.

GB politicians don't care about NI and increasingly resent funding it.

Although I have to say I'm really not looking forward to funding it either... I'd vote no to a unification referendum purely on economic grounds.

ILoveYourVibes

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Does unionism really represent your best interests?

It does though. Or it did. Maybe not the interests of the private economy. But for the state economy and civic issues it has always represented the best interests of Unionists a lot of the time over the interests of nationalists. Even leaving tribalism aside that much is true.

When covid is over they will want to march again and other things will crop up and unionism and the UK govt will again represent maybe not their actual BEST interests and needs ..but their base desires and wants.

Junkyard Tom

The Tories have pursued a version of Brexit so economically thick it tries to place Britain further outside the EU's economic ecosystem for goods than New Zealand and the DUP aided them at every turn. Now Unionists want Ireland to take the hit on it? Do they realise how patently arrogant and privileged that sounds to the rest of us?

If Britain cares about the north and unionists it will make agreements with the EU that ease the issues in the Irish Sea.

NeuralNetwork

What's seen from outside the bubble is quite simply that a bunch of English nationalists rode roughshod over one of the most fragile, unstable and, in recent history, one of the most violent regions in Western Europe that had been just about calmed down, in large part due to the EU frameworks and single market making the conflicts irrelevant.

There's no coming back from that. This is entirely on the Brexiteers. They've imperilled the agreements that people put decades of work into to achieve a peace in Northern Ireland.

This was explained, warned about and shouted from the rooftops about by many people on all sides of Northern Irish society and those genuinely involved the peace process over the decades, as well as countless academics, journalists, politicians and observers.

It was ignored, just like anything else because Brexit is a parlour game between a bunch of overgrown public school boys and girls.

Northern Ireland was barely even stable after the 'Troubles'. The sheer stupidity and callousness of what's been done over the last few years just cannot be underestimated.

History will certainly not be kind to any of them. They've undone so much and will quite likely be the undoing of the UK itself.

GazzaL

Any truth in the rumour that Arlene Foster is in the 'RA? It's the only explanation for her leading the Unionist backing of Brexit.

BluePlanet

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

It was ignored, just like anything else because Brexit is a parlour game between a bunch of overgrown public school boys and girls.

Private school boys, not public.

EDit

BluePlanet wrote: »

Private school boys, not public.

in the UK the terms are interchangeable

lawred2

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Eugh people outside NI don’t look at this the way we do. They don’t think about the real world impact of the protocol, the loss of jobs, the loss of choice, the tariffs, the constant forms, the checks etc.

They see it as a competition between Unionism and Nationalism and the U.K. and Europe.

Real people on the ground are affected by this protocol.

Continual blame and forcing the entire population of NI to suffer is wrong, and not the right approach. If you want to punish us, what does that say about you?

That you HATE Unionism and want to cripple Northern Ireland.

I’m sick of hearing about the DUP did this, the DUP did that. Enough about them. And work to help the people in NI

Really? These riots are amongst the merchant class? The market traders, business people and entrepreneurs of Northern Ireland are out burning cars and injuring police because of trade barriers?

Pull the other one.

McMurphy

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Have some empathy. We’re ALL suffering from trade barriers. It’s not one community.

I have a lot of empathy for the people in the north, unfortunately all the people in the north will suffer because of certain type of unionist intransigence. Unionists had a safe and secure future under the GFA, but they decided to champion Brexit - everyone warned them what would happen, but they carried on like the lemmings they are.

The NI Protocol was thrown on us. Nobody here voted for it or asked for it, no matter what you say.

The NI protocol is a direct result of everything else the DUP and it's Brexiteer bedfellows rejected.

Many of the Brexit cheerleading unionists who sided with some of the most rabid right wing Tory's, are the same people who campaigned against the aforementioned GFA, and some have even been cheering for it to be scrapped and abandoned completely.

Unionists want it to go whatever way they say it should go, regardless of anyone else.

You can't be complaining or take issue about "no one voting for the protocol" or a lack of mandate etc in one breath, and then in the next breath willfully ignore a very comparable absence of a democratic vote and lack of mandate for Brexit in the north to begin with.

Unionists are in a cul-de-sac of their own making I'm afraid, you didn't realise you had it so good when you did.

Dyr

Still, bit of a disappointing turn out for the DUP and the UVF, there were more angry jaffas knocking around for the fleg protests a few years back.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

https://twitter.com/DUPleader

https://twitter.com/duponline

The two main DUP twitter accounts...NOT A WORD about the violence all weekend.

Never mind us thinking NI should burn, you should be worried about those within who want it to burn for their own selfish political survival.

FTA69

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I agree. But many outside NI see the NI Protocol that way, they think we should all suffer.

They say “U.K. parliament voted for this”, yes they did. But what use is an MP from Hemel Hempstead to me, they don’t understand NI, and they don’t care about the impacts of this Protocol.

This protocol is unsustainable in its current form. It’s just too rigid and uncompromising.

Hahaha this is gas. “An MP from Hemel Hempstead doesn’t understand Ireland”.

Well deduced mate! Pretty much the entire pretext of Republicanism there. The British establishment doesn’t care about Unionists. I mean, Unionism realises this of course but since Brexit the mutual strategic interests are now fully diverged and you’ve been badly caught out again.

The DUP is probably the thickest leadership Unionism has ever had in its history to be honest.

briany

In the context of NI history, this whole thing rates as a pretty big fat 'meh'. I'm not trying to be facetious about criminal actions, but it's not a big deal in comparison to what's happened in the past, or even skirmishes during peacetime over basically nothing at all. Scobies are going to scobe, I suppose.

If the worst of the vitriol is this type of stupidity and some lad in a Linfield jersey, with bad tats and a ratty moustache, being interviewed for a Guardian YT piece in an anonymous-looking housing estate outside Belfast, going "This whole thing's doon mah fockin' head in. This sea border's only the start'f it. Ten more years of this and we'll be livin' under the trickolour. Yoo mark mai wurrds.", then what is that but business as usual in the North?

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1378641497474670595

A bit backward really.

igCorcaigh

briany wrote: »

In the context of NI history, this whole thing rates as a pretty big fat 'meh'. I'm not trying to be facetious about criminal actions, but it's not a big deal in comparison to what's happened in the past, or even skirmishes during peacetime over basically nothing at all. Scobies are going to scobe, I suppose.

If the worst of the vitriol is this type of stupidity and some lad in a Linfield jersey, with bad tats and a ratty moustache, being interviewed for a Guardian YT piece in an anonymous-looking housing estate outside Belfast, going "This whole thing's doon mah fockin' head in. This sea border's only the start'f it. Ten more years of this and we'll be livin' under the trickolour. Yoo mark mai wurrds.", then what is that but business as usual in the North?

I think the point to take note of is that the kids in the street are being directed by more senior figures. The message being sent is that they are willing to use violence and street disturbances to block the implementation of the NI protocol.

briany

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I think the point to take note of is that the kids in the street are being directed by more senior figures. The message being sent is that they are willing to use violence and street disturbances to block the implementation of the NI protocol.

But none of this really new is the point I'm making, and is highly unlikely to change the situation. Paramilitary figures directing clueless youngsters to engage in criminal actions isn't a new thing in Northern Ireland. Clashes with police when something goes against Loyalists' wishes is nothing new, be it the 2013 flag protests, not being allowed to march through Ardoyne and now the NI protocol. They're always threatening to kick off in response to anything even a bit against their wishes.

The problem that these Loyalist groups face is that I don't think there's really that much of a mandate for what they're doing. The people of NI, of either community haven't really the appetite for anything like a large-scale return to violence, so the net result is little pockets of knackers doing criminal damage under a political banner, as opposed to their usual banner of being bored and tanked up on Buckfast. And to the rest of the world, it's all just part of the white noise out of that wee country.

Feisar

Did ye see the fúckin egit that set himself alight? Spewed tea laughing at the clown.

FrancieBrady

briany wrote: »

But none of this really new is the point I'm making, and is highly unlikely to change the situation. Paramilitary figures directing clueless youngsters to engage in criminal actions isn't a new thing in Northern Ireland. Clashes with police when something goes against Loyalists' wishes is nothing new, be it the 2013 flag protests, not being allowed to march through Ardoyne and now the NI protocol. They're always threatening to kick off in response to anything even a bit against their wishes.

The problem that these Loyalist groups face is that I don't think there's really that much of a mandate for what they're doing. The people of NI, of either community haven't really the appetite for anything like a large-scale return to violence, so the net result is little pockets of knackers doing criminal damage under a political banner, as opposed to their usual banner of being bored and tanked up on Buckfast. And to the rest of the world, it's all just part of the white noise out of that wee country.

Didn't change the direction of travel with the Anglo Irish Agreement, the GFA, Parades, Flags and now the Protocol and with each one the strength of the protest diminishes.

kravmaga

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I think the point to take note of is that the kids in the street are being directed by more senior figures. The message being sent is that they are willing to use violence and street disturbances to block the implementation of the NI protocol.

Or another angle/ take on the rioting, scum will be scum.

The PSNI are bearing the brunt of feral teenagers throwing petrol bombs and missiles (stones, bricks, ) etc.

Its plain and nasty angry youths ,anti- social behaviour, they are probably organising on some sort of social media app/ platform.

Certainly not good PR Belfast or Northern Ireland as its all over the media in UK and ROI.

Looks like a scene from a warzone. Not sure what they are trying to achieve.

A good blast from a water cannon might do the rioters no harm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0404/1207838-northern-ireland-violence/

lawred2

Feisar wrote: »

Did ye see the fúckin egit that set himself alight? Spewed tea laughing at the clown.

I might like to see that

Zebra3

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I guess you all think NI should burn to the ground.

Stop embarrassing yourself with your little tantrums.

The only people actually trying to burn down NI are loyalist criminals. If you’re that concerned about NI burning down maybe go to a forum (or to the streets) and confront those committing crimes on the “Queen’s Highway”.

The pitifulness of it all.

Grown men declaring loyalty to an unelected head of state. Medieval stuff.

Beechwoodspark

Tit for tat as usual up there

[Deleted User]

"It's time for the border poll"

:rolleyes:

Atlantic Dawn

Feisar wrote: »

Did ye see the fúckin egit that set himself alight? Spewed tea laughing at the clown.

Karma...

https://twitter.com/BBCMarkSimpson/status/1378652447246274561

[Deleted User]

He needn't worry about the barbers being closed....