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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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Clareman

sebdavis wrote: »

Its the old connections. If you don't already have a TRV installed then you need to follow the video above and install.....so its a drain the system and replace job...

Feck it anyway, better find a plumber then. Any recommendations of the valves to get for it?

Marlow

Clareman wrote: »

Feck it anyway, better find a plumber then. Any recommendations of the valves to get for it?

The most commonly used are the Honeywell ones. That's what gets fitted by most plumbers in Ireland anyhow. Either those or Danfoss.

My AVM TRVs fitted straight onto my Honeywell valves, but also had a Danfoss adapter in the package. I figure, the Tado would be similar.

/M

deezell

Clareman wrote: »

Feck it anyway, better find a plumber then. Any recommendations of the valves to get for it?

Feck is right.
These TRV bodies are good value,
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp
A bigger problem is if your old screw type valves have union joints to the rads, as all modern valves have compression fittings, a union TRV body is like hens teeth. It just means the union spigot into the rad has to be replaced by a compession spigot off the new valve. Makes the job messier and longer, but no problem for the plumber, it'll just take him a bit £ong€r. Have a look back here.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114567296&postcount=2149

Clareman

deezell wrote: »

Feck is right.
These TRV bodies are good value,
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp
A bigger problem is if your old screw type valves have union joints to the rads, as all modern valves have compression fittings, a union TRV body is like hens teeth. It just means the union spigot into the rad has to be replaced by a compession spigot off the new valve. Makes the job messier and longer, but no problem for the plumber, it'll just take him a bit £ong€r. Have a look back here.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114567296&postcount=2149

I've a plumber calling some evening to have a look to see what he needs, he reckons it'll take half a day to do the 10 radiators, have to drain the system, change the valves and charge the system again.

steve584

The tado and drayton radiator valves are on offer now on Amazon. Tado are half price!

Clareman

I've 1 rad the that had a plunger valve, can't believe how easy it was to install the TRV. Really tempted to swop the Netamo out for the new thermostat now but I don't want to risk blowing something up when it's nearly bedtime

Clareman

Just got a ping that the valve was shutting off because it detected an open window, I didn't realize there was air quality sensors in it as well, what a great feature.

Vikings

steve584 wrote: »

The tado and drayton radiator valves are on offer now on Amazon. Tado are half price!

Any more feedback on the noise of the tado TRVs?

grogi

Vikings wrote: »

Any more feedback on the noise of the tado TRVs?

I notice noise from Tado TRV moving the valve only when I expect it (exp. just boosted the temp in the room), but never otherwise. They never woke anybody either.

Overblown complain IMHO.

grogi

Clareman wrote: »

Just got a ping that the valve was shutting off because it detected an open window, I didn't realize there was air quality sensors in it as well, what a great feature.

It detects a sudden drop in temperature, not increase in air quality

Clareman

grogi wrote: »

It detects a sudden drop in temperature, not increase in air quality

The air comfort comes from outside, oops...

steve584

Vikings wrote: »

Any more feedback on the noise of the tado TRVs?

I don't actually have tado, it's the Drayton I have. However I don't really notice it. It hasn't woken anyone up. I read somewhere that if your pipes are somewhat loose around the rad the the movement of the trv could be amplified.

Bawnmore

Bawnmore wrote: »

After some reading around, I'm set on the Drayton Wiser system and TRV's. Just want to make sure I'm ordering the right thing.

So what we have:

- Boiler, zoned for rads and water.
- EPH controller that allows for separate schedules for heat and water. We don't have huge hot water needs so have it set for 30 mins in the morning and that's it.
- Separate mechanical timer for immersion.
- Wired twisty knob type thermostat in the hall.
- Hot Water cylinder gravity fed from attic.
- Manual TRV bodies on each rad.

So with above in mind, would the following sound right:

- https://www.screwfix.ie/p/drayton-heating-2-channel-wiser-thermostat-control-kit/9575V?gclsrc=ds which would replace the EPH controller and thermostat.
- Drayton Wiser TRV's for each of the radiators with the exception of the bathroom.

And then questions:

- Is replacing it a DIY job or something we'd need an electrician for?
- It doesn't say it in the package above, but I'm assuming the Drayton thermostats are wireless and I could move it to a better spot than the current thermostat (above a radiator) and just patch up the wiring hole?

So I did this - nice and easy and all set up and running perfectly now. Would be ordering additional TRV's in future anyway so went ahead and ordered for the rest of the radiators while they're reduced on Amazon. Had €40 credit with Screwfix which covered the cost of one so have one coming from there and rest coming from Amazon. Thanks again for the advice here folks!

RedSteve

Hi there, is there any consensus on the best home heating that works with HomeKit?
I have a 3 zone set up currently but with a “dumb” EPH controller and stats.
Currently leaning towards Hive and switching to Bord Gais but just want to see if there is something better out there first.

grogi

Ecobee is apple only, so if I had to bet something that integrates best with HomeKit, it would be it.

sebdavis

Just wondering has anyone had issue with batteries? I have installed 3 which are connected a good distance away from main controller, the battery life is gone already and they are only in 2-3 weeks. The others which are in weeks are still full? would they use up more battery because of distance? this is drayton wiser units

DrPhilG

I had a low battery warning come through for one of the living room units, but then it cleared and the battery indicator now says full.

System has been running a month or so now, with the 2 living room rads a bit longer.

Paulzx

No issues with batteries on any of my Drayton units (yet :eek:)

Had 1 TRV that refused to connect. Got onto Drayton customer service who went through a load of tests with me and then told me to get it replaced by Amazon using the Service Enquiry number that had been generated. I was refunded straight away by Amazon

masterboy123

Hello All,

I am planning to buy Drayton Smart radiator valves which wifi controlled.

I would like to ask can it fit on my current radiator valve? Please see picture :

championc

Technically yes - that is a manual TRV which the Drayton will replace.

However, be aware that the Drayton does NOT come with a pack of adapters, so if the collar size is anything other than 30mm (I think this is the correct size), then a separate adapter would need to be purchased (at around €10 per rad).

Tado include an adapter pack with all of their TRV's which suit 10's of valve types.

masterboy123

Thanks. I have ordered one from Amazon now.
It says Danfoss RA valve is included in every box and works with 90% of the existing valves.

championc wrote: »

Technically yes - that is a manual TRV which the Drayton will replace.

However, be aware that the Drayton does NOT come with a pack of adapters, so if the collar size is anything other than 30mm (I think this is the correct size), then a separate adapter would need to be purchased (at around €10 per rad).

Tado include an adapter pack with all of their TRV's which suit 10's of valve types.

Clareman

I'll probably won't need the adapter sets with my Tados so you're welcome to them if you need them, I'll just need to get my new valves installed first and I don't know when that will be

Clareman

Just looking at a few YouTube videos for the tado and am a bit worried that I'm missing something.

I've a simple boiler with no zones, I've an existing Netamo smart thermostat which I'm going to replace with the Tado smart thermostat. In addition I've gotten TRVs to control the rads, is that right or do I need an extension kit as well?

grogi

Clareman wrote: »

Just looking at a few YouTube videos for the tado and am a bit worried that I'm missing something.

I've a simple boiler with no zones, I've an existing Netamo smart thermostat which I'm going to replace with the Tado smart thermostat. In addition I've gotten TRVs to control the rads, is that right or do I need an extension kit as well?

You need the wireless extension kit if you want to control water heating as well.

reignschaos

deezell wrote: »

Feck is right.
These TRV bodies are good value,
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp
A bigger problem is if your old screw type valves have union joints to the rads, as all modern valves have compression fittings, a union TRV body is like hens teeth. It just means the union spigot into the rad has to be replaced by a compession spigot off the new valve. Makes the job messier and longer, but no problem for the plumber, it'll just take him a bit £ong€r. Have a look back here.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114567296&postcount=2149

@Deezell I trust all is well with yourself. Hope your not feeling the lockdown blues too much.

Wonder can I ask your opinion on TRV replacements. A few of my TRVs have been causing issues over the winter (giving them a jiggle gets them going for a while) so out with the old and in with the new.

EPH v Myson based on your posts
The main differences seem to be Wax v Liquid Sensor and With/Without Frost Protection.

Is either one better than the other? Is there a third alternative?

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp#product_additional_details_container

https://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/myson-trv-2-way-valve-body-only.html

Thanks

deezell

reignschaos wrote: »

@Deezell I trust all is well with yourself. Hope your not feeling the lockdown blues too much.

It's a complete PITH.

Wonder can I ask your opinion on TRV replacements. A few of my TRVs have been causing issues over the winter (giving them a jiggle gets them going for a while) so out with the old and in with the new.

EPH v Myson based on your posts
The main differences seem to be Wax v Liquid Sensor and With/Without Frost Protection.

Is either one better than the other? Is there a third alternative?

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/eph-controls-trvb15-white-angled-trv-body-only-15mm-x-1-5/877hp#product_additional_details_container

https://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/myson-trv-2-way-valve-body-only.html

Thanks

Those links are for TRV valve bodies only. The TRV head is the mechanical thermostat that presses down the pin in the TRV body when set temperature is reached, it does this using a liquid or wax filled expanding chamber. Liquid considered the best, wax heads are more compact. See here; https://phpionline.co.uk/feature-articles/trvs-wax-vs-liquid/
The third alternative TRV Head is of course electromechanical. These can be simple stand alone devices, not networked or smart, just a digital stat and maybe some timer programming done in the head. Smart TRV heads are of course networked and programmable, though all the smarts are generally built into the controlling app and receiver hub, the TRV just takes a temperature reading, sends it to the hub which replies with instructions to open or close the valve. There's a huge range of cheap digital TRV heads out there, as cheap as €20 online. Some more sophisticated than others, but apart from setting the temperature, it would be a pain to go round each one setting timings and local temperature schedules.
If you just want to replace mechanical heads, the choice is also huge. Check that the sticking ones are not caused by the valve body, remove the head and see does the TRV pin move freely. A dart of WD40 on the pin and a good working in and out might suffice. There's no plumbing involved in replacing heads, but if you need to replace old and sticking valve bodies, you can buy complete TRV with head and body from as little as €8, to as much as €60+

Check out entire Screwfix range, mechanical, battery, smart. https://www.screwfix.ie/c/heating-plumbing/thermostatic-radiator-valves/cat831012

wotswattage

Not sure if this is the best place for this post or should I start a new thread.

We have an old 2 bed house with single zone heating and the hot water cylinder is heated whenever the boiler is on. This seems to be done via an open loop in the system going through the cylinder. We also have an electric immersion with a timer, but that has barely been used lately because of the cold weather as the boiler is heating our hot water every day.

We also have a climote controller which is an absolutely useless piece of junk. Its just a timer. I was lead to believe it was some sort of magical technology :pac::pac:

I intend to install Tado smart thermostats on all rads and a boiler controller where each rad will be able to call for the boiler to heat a specific room according to our schedule. (In fact I have put the smart thermostats on the upstairs rads and can now control the temperature in those rooms on the app. Obviously I still need to turn the heating on and off with the climote, but will be going full tado over the next few weeks)

My main question is do I just leave the open loop going through the hot water cylinder or does it have to change something here too? Will it make the whole system less efficient having to heat the cylinder every time a Tado stat calls for the boiler to come on.

deezell

wotswattage wrote: »

Not sure if this is the best place for this post or should I start a new thread.
We have an old 2 bed house with single zone heating and the hot water cylinder is heated whenever the boiler is on....
...We also have a climote controller which is an absolutely useless piece of junk. Its just a timer. I was lead to believe it was some sort of magical technology :pac::pac:

You should read the crap expounded by the promoters/believers of the hub controller stat. It appears to have supernatural powers. Unfortunately, these kind of wooly ethereal claims have been worked into the grant process, meaning large sums of money which should be funding real efficiency improvements, valves, trvs, smart zoning, geofencing etc, are instead being diverted into credits to energy utilities who use a little of it to replace your basic timer with..., a basic dumb single zone timer (with magical properties). Read more on this nonsense in the Hub controller thread

I intend to install Tado smart thermostats on all rads and a boiler controller where each rad will be able to call for the boiler to heat a specific room according to our schedule. (In fact I have put the smart thermostats on the upstairs rads and can now control the temperature in those rooms on the app. Obviously I still need to turn the heating on and off with the climote, but will be going full tado over the next few weeks)

My main question is do I just leave the open loop going through the hot water cylinder or does it have to change something here too? Will it make the whole system less efficient having to heat the cylinder every time a Tado stat calls for the boiler to come on.

It will only be inefficient if your cylinder is uninsulated, in an upstairs hot press with big pipe air gaps through its ceiling into the attic. A modern deep insulated cylinder will just heat to the circulation temperature, then remain static with little loss.
If you want to time HW in an attempt to reduce costs or because you have a lossy cylinder and press, you will need a zone valve installed on the HW loop, and the Tado extension kit to provide switching for the valve, and also switching for the boiler when you dump the Climote.

wotswattage

deezell wrote: »

You should read the crap expounded by the promoters/believers of the hub controller stat. It appears to have supernatural powers. Unfortunately, these kind of wooly ethereal claims have been worked into the grant process, meaning large sums of money which should be funding real efficiency improvements, valves, trvs, smart zoning, geofencing etc, are instead being diverted into credits to energy utilities who use a little of it to replace your basic timer with..., a basic dumb single zone timer (with magical properties). Read more on this nonsense in the Hub controller thread

It will only be inefficient if your cylinder is uninsulated, in an upstairs hot press with big pipe air gaps through its ceiling into the attic. A modern deep insulated cylinder will just heat to the circulation temperature, then remain static with little loss.
If you want to time HW in an attempt to reduce costs or because you have a lossy cylinder and press, you will need a zone valve installed on the HW loop, and the Tado extension kit to provide switching for the valve, and also switching for the boiler when you dump the Climote.

Okay thanks for the reply, not a huge deal so. The tank is lagged but its a few years old and the lagging jacket isn't exactly a tailored fit. Probably medium lossy! I understand that maintaining temperature in the tank isn't a huge deal. A zone switch sounds like a good option if I really want the extra control.

We are toying with the idea of putting a combi boiler in we had one in a rented house before and liked that there was no wastage of unused heated water, plus you get a pump shower! We currently have one electric shower and one tank fed shower. The current boiler is a relatively new one so we may stick with it for another few years..

Agreed re the marketing on climote its a load of spin!

Clareman

I've the tado thermostat installed now, have to say I'm a bit surprised that it's battery powered rather than taking the power from the wall as it has to be wired anyway.