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RTÉ to cease radio transmission on DAB network

GerardKeating

RTÉ to cease radio transmission on DAB network.

Given they are the only broadcaster on DAB, is there any future for DAB in Ireland now, or is that a play to get the Government to "do something"..

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JDxtra

fryup wrote: »

i just bought my sister a dab radio as a birthday present....is there anything at all she can listen to??

Normally they have FM as well, or take it back for a refund and get a smart speaker (Google/Alexa).

Tork

Did you keep the receipt? :pac:

fryup

i just bought my sister a dab radio as a birthday present....is there anything at all she can listen to??

Jessex

Closing obsolete dab is the best decision RTE has ever made but that's not to say that radio on the internet is the answer. DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) is on the way giving all DAB benefits at low cost as DRM+ in VHF /FM band. See Cambridge Associates sub $10 low cost/energy module due 3rd quarter 2021

frozenfrozen

Wonder what the actual usage % of DAB was if they factor in people who had no idea they had been listening to it in the car?

plodder

youcancallmeal wrote: »

In my Peugeot 5008 the radio by default is setup to automatically switch over to DAB after a few seconds. I was listening to RTE radio 1 and it kept cutting out after a few seconds. I knew straight away what was going on so I pulled over and after a few minutes going through the settings I found out how to switch off DAB follow up. I just wonder how many cars will be like this and people who won't have a clue how to change the settings

Some cars even this isn't possible. Have checked with dealer and they know about it but can't do anything. DAB just overrides FM when available and it's still "available" until RTE switches off the carrier. Have emailed them to ask when they plan to switch off the carrier.

Antenna

kazoo106 wrote: »

2. All PI codes are still active - many car radios use the AF function to always select DAB over FM, meaning most or many new cars in coverage of this 5 MUX network cannot now listen to the 4 x National stations

They should have completely terminated the ID data for the 4 stations on FM anyway when the DAB audio was turned off, with the IDs and DAB advisory text continuing on the non-FM stations only.
They might as well have put on looped spoken announcements (on the non-FM stations) as well for anyone with visual disability that cannot read the displays (for as long as the advisory text is to be transmitted, it wouldn't cost anything extra).

[Deleted User]

Such a stupid decision by RTÉ.

Hamsterchops

Former Former Former wrote: »

While DAB had a lot of theoretical advantages, it was the right tech at the wrong time. This had been coming for a long time, but delighted the digital stations will continue.

DAB has been leapfrogged by internet radio IMO, Alexa and the like. Internet based radio that just needs a WiFi connection, that's my experience anyway ......

I gave up on DAB a long time ago when I realised it was always going to have the same limitations as the FM signal. Local Irish stations only! No BBC, no nothing from outside the ROI, hence internet radio to the rescue for me.

kazoo106

As somebody pointed out - got to have been one of the most fumbled closedowns with a complete lack of understanding of the technology by the operator.

1. Everything is still on air - just the volume or fader has been turned down (all stations can still be heard by turning up the volume)

2. All PI codes are still active - many car radios use the AF function to always select DAB over FM, meaning most or many new cars in coverage of this 5 MUX network cannot now listen to the 4 x National stations

*** How you can "turn down the volume" in this manner on a supposed DIGITAL AUDIO chain has me absolutely stumped

Clearly RTE never used a digital audio chain for this network

youcancallmeal

In my Peugeot 5008 the radio by default is setup to automatically switch over to DAB after a few seconds. I was listening to RTE radio 1 and it kept cutting out after a few seconds. I knew straight away what was going on so I pulled over and after a few minutes going through the settings I found out how to switch off DAB follow up. I just wonder how many cars will be like this and people who won't have a clue how to change the settings

[Deleted User]

Only just learned about this,

Shame to be honest, a few of my old work vehicles had a DAB radio and I would throw on 2XM or maybe Gold the odd time and it would actually be nice to have clear half decent music with no adverts.

Those same vehicles I drove in the UK and sure enough had loads of selection too. Oh well

Jonathan1990

The only reason why DAB has been so successful in UK is due to Global and Bauer launching lots of spin off stations with small playlists which suit people's different tastes of music.

Mickey Mike

From Woodcock Hill the TX is still live, you can barely barley hear the radio channels with my earplugs and portable radio and that is volume up to the last.
I'd love if the pirates start setting up a DAB network all over the country, and let RTE go to hell.

Jonathan1990

In The Netherlands they started doing low powered AM radio stations around 2017 once bigger ones such as NPO Radio 5 Nostalgia, Radio 10 Gold and Grootnews switched off. Seems like Ireland may do same thing with DAB. Shame it's ended now.

galtee boy

alzer100 wrote: »

I know that this particular issue has been discussed on this forum but I just bluetooth my phone to my car stereo system and play RTE Gold via the Irish Radio Player. It just means that you need to set it up before you start driving (if you want to keep it legal!) and I know you're stuck with that station until you are parked (again, if you want to keep it legal!) It really depends on how big that void is for you.

Get an Alexa Auto for the car, set it up once, leave it in the car and everytime you get in, it will automatically connect to your phone. You can change channels as much as you want while driving, because its voice controlled and hands free. I have one it's better than any DAB network, with all BBC stations and indeed any station from around the world, once you know its name and ask Alexa for it.

alzer100

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

I just select FM mode on the radio menu. Retune the channel to an FM station and save it. Look in the user's manual.

That said, I always listened to RTE Gold and nothing's filling the void.

I know that this particular issue has been discussed on this forum but I just bluetooth my phone to my car stereo system and play RTE Gold via the Irish Radio Player. It just means that you need to set it up before you start driving (if you want to keep it legal!) and I know you're stuck with that station until you are parked (again, if you want to keep it legal!) It really depends on how big that void is for you.

rogue-entity

Elmo wrote: »

BAI aren't licensing any national or local stations afaik, wasn't sure what they meant.

You could always apply for a service under Section 71 of the broadcast act, like Radio Maria, though its only for TV broadcast AFAIK.

I was looking for a licence to operate a multiplex as a service provider, at the time I didn't realise that multiplex licensing was deferred to the BAI, but it would be a Section 136 licence.

end of the road

larchill wrote: »

Aye, noticed that Gold & Radio 1 went silent around mid day alright. Carrier is obviously still there though. Will these be available on FM now?

the digital stations won't be available on fm, no.

Elmo

rogue-entity wrote: »

In 2012 I reached out to Comreg asking for a licence to run a DAB multiplex and was told I need to take it up with the BAI as they are solely responsible for the licensing of radio broadcasting (digital or otherwise). When I then spoke to the BAI I was told that they only deal with content providers (i.e. radio stations) and not service providers.
So there was (and unless that changed, is) no method or means to obtain a licence and I know I'm far from the only person interested in this endeavour.

BAI aren't licensing any national or local stations afaik, wasn't sure what they meant.

You could always apply for a service under Section 71 of the broadcast act, like Radio Maria, though its only for TV broadcast AFAIK.

Declan A Walsh

larchill wrote: »

Aye, noticed that Gold & Radio 1 went silent around mid day alright. Carrier is obviously still there though. Will these be available on FM now?

If you mean RTE Radio 1 (presumably), it has always been available on FM!

As regards, RTE Gold, 2XM, RTE Pulse and all RTE's other digital only stations, they are still available online (try Radio Garden for example) and on digital tv platforms like Saorview and Virgin Media.

larchill

Aye, noticed that Gold & Radio 1 went silent around mid day alright. Carrier is obviously still there though. Will these be available on FM now?

rogue-entity

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

I did have a DAB radio for a time, but Smart Speakers (Alexa, google et al) are just better.

Unless you're in your car :P

KildareP wrote: »

DAB+ would of course improve matters, but when you look at the regulatory framework (or lack thereof), a general unwillingness for anyone else to partner up to share costs of expanding coverage, our relatively small population and density compared to elsewhere in Europe to support niche services, does it make sense to continue ahead?

I'm skeptical of that claim, RTE's license for Digital Radio Broadcasting comes from it's own dedicated section of the Broadcasting Act of 2009, Licences for other operators are provided for elsewhere in the Act but it is entirely up to the BAI to offer said licence and they are neither offering nor accepting requests so far as I know.

In 2012 I reached out to Comreg asking for a licence to run a DAB multiplex and was told I need to take it up with the BAI as they are solely responsible for the licensing of radio broadcasting (digital or otherwise). When I then spoke to the BAI I was told that they only deal with content providers (i.e. radio stations) and not service providers.
So there was (and unless that changed, is) no method or means to obtain a licence and I know I'm far from the only person interested in this endeavour.

Pete Best wrote: »

Yep, there were trial multiplexes in Cork and the southeast that ran for quite a few years but they’ve since closed down.

Those multiplexes took advantage of Comreg's Test & Trial service which cannot be used to run a commercial service, and the operators of one of these was unable to obtain a licence to run the service full-time.

KReid wrote: »

There's nothing stopping new stations being broadcast online as opposed to on DAB.

In the short term, no, in the long run, here are a few things:

Online streaming is (barring a few exceptions) unscaleable and the costs quickly become prohibitive (an order of magnitude more than it would cost to run an FM or DAB network covering the same listenership)
Once you become noticed, and come to the attention of IMRO/PPI, those become new costs that (quite a few) stations don't pay and then you'll end up implementing geoblocking on top of that (which takes away one of the touted benefits of online services - the means to listen to a wider choice of stations)
You're banking on being able to convince advertisers to pay to advertise on your streamed broadcast and I'm skeptical of that as a viable market

KReid wrote: »

With internet coverage increasing every day and the rollout of 4g/5g, DAB seems totally irrelevant here. As someone else said, DAB is good technology, but it came between FM and Online Listening.

it might be increasing in suburban areas but I've yet to travel the length of the M8/M9 and have a 4G signal the entire duration, so, streaming is a non-starter.

KReid wrote: »

If I was involved in radio station here, I wouldn't be bothered by this, an online app that is transferable between Website/Phone/Smart Speaker is a far superior product.

The problem is a bit like the M50, when you're driving to the airport at 3am you could say "it's a fine road, no delays" but make that same trip during the morning rush and you'll be disappointed.

KReid wrote: »

I feel we will end up almost entirely on Internet Based streaming by 2030.

Which would be the death of radio in Ireland (at worst) or lead to no significant change to the status quo (at best)

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

It was nothing to do with RTE not wanting to compete. They were very enthusiastic about DAB but the commercial FM stations had no interest or even saw it as a commercial threat, brining more competitors into their FM fiefdoms.

Precisely, and for the moment, they don't take streaming seriously.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Like it or not, streaming services are where it’s at. We’ve relatively little issue steaming in cars, and that will get better and better as time goes on.

I disagree in part for the reasons I mentioned above. I'll grant you that paid services like Spotify are "where it's at" as the phone with a Bluetooth (or AUX jack connection) replace the stack of CDs in the glovebox but that's a different animal from providing a live streaming radio station. But I will add that your experience with streaming while out-and-about is not universal. There's areas of Waterford where I can't even get a 2G signal, nevermind 4G and you can forget about maintaining a constant internet connection traveling up the motorway, nevermind the national roads; the national TETRA network has better coverage.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

You’ve fairly ubiquitous fast, affordable broadband and a massive rural broadband scheme rolling out too and couple that with virtually 100% smartphone ownership.

Except bandwidth is neither free nor cheap, and the broadcaster is the one that has to pay for each and every listener, the cost of running a broadcasting transmitter is much less expensive.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Analog FM is likely to be on air for decades yet. It’s simple, ubiquitous, produces decent quality and very competent at what it does.

It's also cheap to setup and to run; the problem is when you want to launch a radio station and assuming there is a frequency available you're going to be told no licence is available. If you start an online station, that's cheap if you have at most 700 listeners (assuming 128k MP3 and an average of 8hrs of listening per day) but it quickly becomes painfully expensive.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

If we could spin up some cheap, local DAB infrastructure, maybe it might have done something but that's not how it's evolved and there was plenty of commercial and non-commercial effort put into doing that over the last few years and all of it has amounted to nought.

Except we can, and, we could for about the same price as it would cost to get started on FM but it's less about the financial cost and more about the technical cost as it isn't as simple as turning on a transmitter.

I'm saddened by the loss of RTE's DAB service, I'd pick it up a fair distance out from the airport and it was enjoyable listening, there's nothing else on FM of interest. At this point I'm rather tempted to pick up a HackRF board, another Raspberry Pi to have an in-car Mux since the stations I like are at least still alive

JDxtra

Now that DAB is gone, it's a good time for a fresh start. There is very limited value in a new provider doing a dual broadcast of DAB/DAB+. They should just go with DAB+ and an expanded list of services.

The Spare Bowler

RTÉ will regret closing the DAB channels, because later this year a DAB/ DAB+ multiplex will start in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford. It will have 10 radio stations they will broadcast in DAB and DAB+. It’s coverage will grow to the whole country eventually, it will be legal and licensed. They advertised for stations and were oversubscribed. As all new DAB radios and cars must have DAB+, so eventually the DAB service will stop and it will only be on DAB+. I contacted a Dublin station today and they told me that they hope to be on DAB+ later this year. So don’t give up it’s going to get a lot better later this year.

plodder

Andy454 wrote: »

I mentioned this in a previous comment - car radios are programmed to pick up DAB “where available”.....

Yes, and DAB is technically still available for RTE 1 etc. It's just dead air, but the radio doesn't know that. If they hadn't tried to be so clever with it, these radios would just have automatically retuned to FM and most owners wouldn't even notice. In my wife's car you can disable DAB completely, but in another car it does not appear to be possible.

Dindane

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

I just select FM mode on the radio menu. Retune the channel to an FM station and save it. Look in the user's manual.

That said, I always listened to RTE Gold and nothing's filling the void.

BBC Radio 2?

Jim_Hodge

ITV2 wrote: »

anyone when they will switch the TXs off, my car keeps switching to RTE R1 on dab for some reason so it's impossible to listen to RTE1 on FM.

I just select FM mode on the radio menu. Retune the channel to an FM station and save it. Look in the user's manual.

That said, I always listened to RTE Gold and nothing's filling the void.

galtee boy

Larbre34 wrote: »

No. There is no broadcast network any longer.

I hope I don't get into trouble for this, but isn't there a pirate DAB network in various parts of Ireland called Freedab? I think its on Mux 5A.

plodder

ITV2 wrote: »

anyone when they will switch the TXs off, my car keeps switching to RTE R1 on dab for some reason so it's impossible to listen to RTE1 on FM.

Exact same problem here. You couldn't make it up.

I don't know which is worse: the car that can't disable DAB, or RTE for broadcasting silence on their DAB channels.