How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You cannot be an Irish nationalist and support a foreign monarchy downcow.

Misrepresenting again.
You know is was referring to british people who love the union but don’t support the monarchy.

I absolutely never referred to Irish nationalists supporting the monarchy

downcow wrote: »

Francie. Just for once admit when you are wrong.

Yes I used the term ‘traditional nationalist’. In ni that means someone who was reared in the nationalist community - and well you know it !

Who cannot be counted as Irish Nationalists downcow if they support the UK.

They are unionists, why would they be wound up by their flag?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ah right. Everybody is hiding their voting intentions until the big day. Ok, if that helps you sleep I suppose.

It won't be an all Ireland poll btw...it will be 2 separate polls. And both of them must be Yes to unity. So a Unionist vote will be a big potato where there are more of them (hint - in the place where an artificial majority was created for them)

Who was it created that ‘artificial majority’ Francie?
You can’t blame the big bad brits for that one.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who cannot be counted as Irish Nationalists downcow if they support the UK.

They are unionists, why would they be wound up by their flag?

Very difficult to have a discussion with you Francie when you dance on the head of a pin

downcow wrote: »

Who was it created that ‘artificial majority’ Francie?
You can’t blame the big bad brits for that one.

Threatening a fledgling country with 'immediate and terrible war' would incur a lot of blame. Mustering thousands of men and weapons and threatening sedition of you don't get your sectarian bigoted way would also incur a fair share of the blame.

downcow wrote: »

Very difficult to have a discussion with you Francie when you dance on the head of a pin

Don't use terminology that is wrong so. If you support the UK you are not an Irish nationalist and you won't therefore be 'wound up' by the flag of that union.

downcow wrote: »

I think this is a mad counterproductive idea like something the dup would come up with. I am so glad it will not apply to ni. Would only wind up the many traditional nationalists who currently support the union.

If they support the union why would they be wound up over the flying of the union flag?

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57309/september-1913

Didn't take long:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-to-push-for-new-rule-on-union-flag-for-northern-ireland-40236952.html

bonzothedog

downcow wrote: »

The poll is a nonsense as it opens with rediculous assumptions eg unionists will accept it - my goodness that means I will accept it. I am actually surprised anyone in Roi will stand in the way if that list of assumptions is trus.

Ah ffs man, I came up with the poll after 5 minutes deep thought about the assumptions give me a break!

I think the poll results are interesting though, what do you think?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Francie. Just for once admit when you are wrong.

Yes I used the term ‘traditional nationalist’. In ni that means someone who was reared in the nationalist community - and well you know it !

"Cultural Nationalist" would be a more appropriate and accurate term lad.

jm08

JimmyVik wrote: »

No, its not the equivalent. Nowhere near it

I notice on the poll thread a lot of people saying Ireland can afford the North.
Once they find out what will be coming out of their own pocket for it they might think a little more about that one

Yeats will be turning in his grave!

What need you, being come to sense,

But fumble in a greasy till

And add the halfpence to the pence

And prayer to shivering prayer, until

You have dried the marrow from the bone;

For men were born to pray and save:

Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,

It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

JimmyVik

jm08 wrote: »

Yeats will be turning in his grave!

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57309/september-1913

Yeats wont be voting either

briany

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The way things are progressing it wouldn't appear at the moment that any compromise towards unionists would be required to get it to pass. So if no compromise is necessary, then why bother? As has been pointed out unionism will not be satisfied with any form of Irish unity, so what would throwing them a bone achieve?

I can see the process already, a government that thinks it's being responsible will construct a referendum for unity which requires symbols etc to be changed. Such a referendum would likely pass but a nationalist government at a later point, lookups for an easy political win would quickly propose reversing it.

The only way unity is a success is through assimilation and absorption. Expecting the majority to change for an unpleasable minority will be a disaster.

I think it's the attitude of 'no compromise' toward British Unionists which makes many of them so afraid of the idea of UI. There's a certain ambiguity to the phrase 'no compromise' because it could mean no compromises beyond the freedoms they currently have, or it could mean no compromise where their culture is forcibly suppressed and they face discrimination at every turn.

But in whatever way the phrase is meant, I'm not sure it's true to say that no compromise is necessary. It shouldn't be assumed that every NI Nationalist/Catholic would vote for a UI because at least some of them would have economic concerns about what a UI would actually mean. Having no border on the island is one thing, but that doesn't put food on the table, and it doesn't assuage fears of losing the NHS and what that means.

And unless our collective memories are very short, it was only a few years ago that we saw the UK undertake a divisive and very close referendum of their own, and 'We won, you lost. No compromise." led to years of political infighting and lasting bitterness. I don't think it's a model to be followed.

droidman123 wrote: »

If they support the union why would they be wound up over the flying of the union flag?

I think you know.
They grew up as nationalists, have Irish culture and identity and don’t like the ‘butchers apron’ but they like the ni identity and love the benifits of living in the U.K.

bonzothedog wrote: »

Ah ffs man, I came up with the poll after 5 minutes deep thought about the assumptions give me a break!

I think the poll results are interesting though, what do you think?

Why did you need to put in assumptions? Why not let people think for themselves?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

"Cultural Nationalist" would be a more appropriate and accurate term lad.

I am ok with that terminology, but thank you for confirming that you know exactly what I meant. We just need Francie to catch up now

Rodin

The Union fleg will not be making an every day return to buildings in the north

downcow wrote: »

I am ok with that terminology, but thank you for confirming that you know exactly what I meant. We just need Francie to catch up now

You tried to say the flag issue was one that would only upset people who were born into nationalist homes.

They aren't nationalists they are Unionists downcow if they support the 'Union' and they aren't the ones upset...as I showed in the article I posted about the DUP. Belligerent Unionism is upset....as usual.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You tried to say the flag issue was one that would only upset people who were born into nationalist homes.

They aren't nationalists they are Unionists downcow if they support the 'Union' and they aren't the ones upset...as I showed in the article I posted about the DUP. Belligerent Unionism is upset....as usual.

Francie you are on your own now. Everyone else clearly knows what I said. You are trolling

downcow wrote: »

Francie you are on your own now. Everyone else clearly knows what I said. You are trolling

I knew what you said at the time downcow. You were trying to make a point about only people who were born into nationalist homes would be upset and you were 'concerned' about them.

You were as usual trying to make the best of something. The only people upset by this so far are belligerent Unionists.

trashcan

downcow wrote: »

Who was it created that ‘artificial majority’ Francie?
You can’t blame the big bad brits for that one.

Why not, since it was them partitioned the Country ?

trashcan wrote: »

Why not, since it was them partitioned the Country ?

I got an education on this forum. Seems it wasn’t the brits partitioned the island but rather the ROI invited OWC to stay in the UK if they wished. So I don’t know how you blame the brits for that?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because PARLIAMENT IS SOVEREIGN in the UK, here the people are sovereign, constitutional change here can only be brought about by referendum.

So was there a referendum last time ni was allowed to separate from ‘Ireland’?

downcow wrote: »

So was there a referendum last time ni was allowed to separate from ‘Ireland’?

Our first constitution was written in 1922.

Saw Biden today talking about what ‘the Brits’ did to his ancestors, the arc of history is long! Can imagine Dodds and Sammy Wilson fit to burst with rage when they heard the comment!

Rodin

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Saw Biden today talking about what ‘the Brits’ did to his ancestors, the arc of history is long! Can imagine Dodds and Sammy Wilson fit to burst with rage when they heard the comment!

He did get his geography wrong though. The Irish sea isn't between Ireland and the US

Rodin wrote: »

He did get his geography wrong though. The Irish sea isn't between Ireland and the US

Not sure he did, he said his great grandfather got on a coffin shop in the Irish Sea, didn’t say it crossed the Irish Sea, just that was where his ancestor boarded. Anyway, we’’d have forgiven him the mistake if he’d made it!

Hurrache

Rodin wrote: »

He did get his geography wrong though. The Irish sea isn't between Ireland and the US

A lot of the famine trails headed to Dublin.