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Green Party disintegration / split

L1011

In the last few days, the heads of the Green Partys Youth and Queer divisions have resigned, and a high profile Councillor in Cork (Lorna Bogue, 5.5k FPV in February) has left the party

They also lost the very high profile, albeit serially unelected Saoirse McHugh over the summer.

There is also the "Just Transition Greens" grouping, currently still affiliated to the party, which formerly contained some of those overboard.

Is there an actual split in the offing? The formation of a SocDems equivalent for disenchanted reps is something I could easily see happening but four months in Government is a bit quick for such a split.

They've a lot smaller of a base to collapse from than Labour's serial resignations from 2011 onward; and the Government has a much smaller majority than in that case too.

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hotmail.com

This reminds me of the Eamon Ryan 'n' word stuff last year. The only ones who criticised him were from his own party.

[Deleted User]

Amirani wrote: »

This is all moot if Village Magazine is anything to go by...

https://twitter.com/VillageMagIRE/status/1374274483570233348

"exceptionally well-developed range of progressive policies, structures and strategies."

A new party on the left is exactly what our political system has been crying out for. This will solve everything, and splits on the left will be a thing of the past because of these exceptionally well developed policies. Just LOOK at their folder structure, impressive!

i taught RISE was the green party of left?

That being said,eamonn ryan has overseen a rather remarkable purge of progressive voices from within the green party

Wheter by accident or design,he has removed/forced out nearly all opposition to his leadership

Brussels Sprout

Be some laugh if by some miracle she got elected making those 3 her party colleagues in the upper house.

hotmail.com

Some of the Green Party want Hazel to be sacked from the party.

Great to see the party ripping itself apart so publicly.

I'm not quite sure Hazel is in the right party.

Brussels Sprout

Dun dun dun [Dramatic Music]

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1374767830781071360

Chips Lovell

awec wrote: »

What use are the TDs to him if they cannot be relied upon to vote with the party when they're told to?

As long as they don't vote against you on confidence or budget issues, you remain in government and get to implement your portions of the programme for government.

Amirani wrote: »

This is all moot if Village Magazine is anything to go by...

True. As I said, devil's advocate. But I guess, even if the malcontents left, it does reflect well on Ryan that he wasn't the one to force a split.

L1011

That'll just be Just Transition Green splitting off and I wouldn't be surprised if they do some fudge to let TDs that join it hang on as Ryan GP whipped / dual members like the Coop Party in the UK

awec

Village Magazine are some jokers. Aside from the whole yet-another-party silliness it's odd to see a publication so openly happy to drop any notion of journalism in order to post what is blatantly just PR.

Who do we think would be in this new watermelon party? Odds for McHugh or Bogue being involved?

Amirani

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I'll play devil's advocate here and say that it's frequently said of smaller left wing parties that they're too prone splits and thus never get big enough to gain a bit of critical mass, whereas the larger parties tend to be able to accommodate or live with internal fractiousness a lot better.

Perhaps it's to Ryan's credit and a sign of the party's growing maturity that he hasn't gone gangbusters on the dissenters?

This is all moot if Village Magazine is anything to go by...

https://twitter.com/VillageMagIRE/status/1374274483570233348

"exceptionally well-developed range of progressive policies, structures and strategies."

A new party on the left is exactly what our political system has been crying out for. This will solve everything, and splits on the left will be a thing of the past because of these exceptionally well developed policies. Just LOOK at their folder structure, impressive!

gormdubhgorm

awec wrote: »

Chu seems pretty eager to get into the senate. I think she has tried to be nominated before. I believe she has also approached some independents looking for an endorsement since she's technically not a green candidate.

The move smacks of absolute careerism to be honest and is just another example of the GP being full of people who don't really suit being in a party. What is the point in being in the Greens if you're happy to ditch it and go solo to run for a cosier position?

The senate has to be the cushiest number in Irish politics. Amazed the Irish people voted to keep in that referendum.

awec

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I'll play devil's advocate here and say that it's frequently said of smaller left wing parties that they're too prone splits and thus never get big enough to gain a bit of critical mass, whereas the larger parties tend to be able to accommodate or live with internal fractiousness a lot better.

Perhaps it's to Ryan's credit and a sign of the party's growing maturity that he hasn't gone gangbusters on the dissenters?

What use are the TDs to him if they cannot be relied upon to vote with the party when they're told to?

Chips Lovell

I'll play devil's advocate here and say that it's frequently said of smaller left wing parties that they're too prone to splits and thus never get big enough to gain a bit of critical mass, whereas the larger parties tend to be able to accommodate or live with internal fractiousness a lot better.

Perhaps it's to Ryan's credit and a sign of the party's growing maturity that he hasn't gone gangbusters on the dissenters?

L1011

PommieBast wrote: »

When I read about it, the first thing that sprang to mind is why she and/or those TDs who nominated her have not been suspended/expelled. Many parties have rules specifically against such stuff.

Remember this is the party that barely noticed Ministers breaking the whip.

Sam Russell

blanch152 wrote: »

The Climate Action Bill is of far more importance to Ryan than the political aspirations of a Green councillor. The Greens are in politics to achieve radical progress against climate change. That is what the bill is about.

But why is ER going on about minor rural railways when it is obvious to all that they are just money pits, and saying the M20 will cost €3 billion, when it is unlikely to exceed €1 billion? Where did that figure come from? The M20 is one motorway that they should support because it is needed for safety alone - put a toll on it if the car traffic needs curbing.

He opposed the Metrolink project because of a ginger group near Dunville Avenue opposed it and they are in his constituency, while Metrolink should be a major GREEN project ticking all green attributes - public transport, moves people out of cars, fully electric, major flag project, etc etc. What is not to like from a Green perspective? Well, ER found some things.

Reminds one of 'the first thing on the agenda for an Irish political party is the split'.

blanch152

Amirani wrote: »

Will largely be about Climate Action Bill I'd imagine.

The Climate Action Bill is of far more importance to Ryan than the political aspirations of a Green councillor. The Greens are in politics to achieve radical progress against climate change. That is what the bill is about.

PommieBast

When I read about it, the first thing that sprang to mind is why she and/or those TDs who nominated her have not been suspended/expelled. Many parties have rules specifically against such stuff.

Sam Russell

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Was there a reason given why she is running independent?

I would imagine that she is running as an independent because the Green Party (ER) refused her a nomination. This is, I assume, a Programme for Government commitment. ER is allowing the split to happen.

awec

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Was there a reason given why she is running independent?

Greens wouldn't endorse her as they don't believe she has a chance of winning.

Chu seems pretty eager to get into the senate. I think she has tried to be nominated before. I believe she has also approached some independents looking for an endorsement since she's technically not a green candidate.

The move smacks of absolute careerism to be honest and is just another example of the GP being full of people who don't really suit being in a party. What is the point in being in the Greens if you're happy to ditch it and go solo to run for a cosier position?

Like if she managed to get elected as an independent senator is she going to vote against any government bills, and therefore against her own party?

Eamon Ryan needs to start wielding the stick to those in his party who are not toeing the line.

gormdubhgorm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Or Hazel Chu running for the Senate.

Was there a reason given why she is running independent?

Sam Russell

Amirani wrote: »

Will largely be about Climate Action Bill I'd imagine.

Or Hazel Chu running for the Senate.

Amirani

Larbre34 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan coming up shortly on Newstalk with Cuddihy. Could be a clubbing.

Will largely be about Climate Action Bill I'd imagine.

Larbre34

Eamon Ryan coming up shortly on Newstalk with Cuddihy. Could be a clubbing.

Brussels Sprout

Sparko wrote: »

senator Michael D’Arcy resigned to become chief executive of the Irish Association of Investment Managers.

Tell me he's a member of FG without telling me he's in FG.

Sparko

Geuze wrote: »

Who died to cause this by-election?

No deaths, two resignations.

"One vacancy arose after former Fine Gael senator Michael D’Arcy resigned to become chief executive of the Irish Association of Investment Managers.

Former Sinn F senator Elisha McCallion also resigned following a controversy over Covid-19 grants in Northern Ireland."

Taken from here:
https://www.thejournal.ie/hazel-chu-seanad-by-election-5388721-Mar2021/

Geuze

Who died to cause this by-election?

awec

It must be nearly time for Ryan to start actually wielding the stick?

L1011

Its not "little chance", its zero chance. Other non-FF/FG candidates are aware they're doing it for PR - I would hope Chu realises this too.

Brussels Sprout

Revealing who broke ranks: Hourigan, O' Brien and Martin and her husband.

Green Party deputy leader Catherine Martin has signed nomination papers for Lord Mayor of Dublin Hazel Chu whose nomination for the Seanad the party had refused to support.

The Green Party leadership had held back on endorsing Ms Chu’s candidacy, as it believed she stood little chance of winning a seat. The party said on Monday that it was not putting forward a candidate and that Ms Chu “is not contesting the election as a Green Party candidate”.

However, alongside Ms Martin, several other Green Party members have defied some in the party leadership to sign Ms Chu’s nomination papers. They include Minister of State Joe O’Brien, and Neasa Hourigan, both of whom voted against the Government last year, Francis Noel Duffy TD and Seantor Vincent Martin. Mr Duffy is married to Ms Martin and Mr Martin is her brother.

She also secured nominations from Senators Eileen Flynn and Lynn Ruane, said sources, and Independent TD Marian Harkin.

link

L1011

Chu's mayoral term ends at the end of June - whether the Greens can hold together long enough to get to then could be questionable.

Further crumbling on DCC could threaten the remaining years of the mayoral rotation; Labour, SD and I'm presuming FF again in whatever order.

Brussels Sprout

Hourigan was always one of the most likely to go. She came out very strongly against going into coalition and then seemed to be annoyed when she was passed over for a ministry.

Costello didn't back going into government either but I figured he'd likely stay as long as his wife was Lord Mayor. With some sitting TDs jumping ship the starting of a new party would move closer.

If they did start a new party that would be kinda nuts since the Dail already has at least 1 TD from each of the following:

Sinn Fein
Green Party
Social Democrats
Labour
PBP
Solidarity
Rise
I4C

Perhaps if they got their act together and stopped fragmenting the left might have actually led a government by now!