prunudo wrote: » I was sure they had already done an environmental survey last year. Definitely was talking to someone who said they were doing a survey on behave of Arup.
SeanW wrote: » If the plan is to go with widening the existing route, will the upgrade make it a motorway? From my limited experience using the N/M11, it always seemed like 2 lanes each way for general traffic is about right, but that the main problem is a sketchy dual carriageway making a weird Cumberland Gap between two sections of M11.
schmittel wrote: » I think that's the billion dollar question. Do they go with the widening the existing route, make traffic flow better and safe but accept that they will not be able to obtain motorway spec through the Glen - the Cumberland Gap. Or do they go for a continuous motorway and accept that they face an engineering challenge through virgin countryside. Between a rock and a hard place is particularly apt in this case!
punisher5112 wrote: » I doubt they will run into the tree huggers like before, the cost of these people really is how we are where we are now....
schmittel wrote: » The won't run into them like before I agree. The tree huggers are a lot more powerful nowadays. And this time EU law explicitly backs them up.
marno21 wrote: » There’s also the matter of the Minister for Transport being one.....
Steve012 wrote: » Plan is : A freeway, a free flow road from the north to Rosslare 3 lanes each side + a Express bus lane. That's the long and short of the idea.
Ireland trains wrote: » Would converting the hard shoulders into bus lanes for peak times along with a major park and ride north of wicklow and a bus distribution hub near bray/cherrywood (possibly brides glen) not be a much cheaper option? The project is estimated at one billion euro which is likley to rise. The eco warriors claimed that widening the glen of the downs in the 90s-00s would result us being back in the same place in 20 years time and they were absoloutly right. While a case can be made for a handful of interurban motorway projects such as the m20 the same cannot be said for the billions we will be pouring in to widening 'commuter' motorways. Also additional capacity on the rail line can be accommodated without major investment. Trains are usually 3-4 coaches, infrequent so just longer trains and more of them are required
punisher5112 wrote: » From what I gather it's to be M all the way. That would be the only real reason for these works and the necessary closures of exits and entrances onto the road as is. Look at the car park at GOTD, garden centre etc.
Ireland trains wrote: » Would converting the hard shoulders into bus lanes for peak times along with a major park and ride north of wicklow and a bus distribution hub near bray/cherrywood (possibly brides glen) not be a much cheaper option?
Pete_Cavan wrote: » Closing entrances and formalising junctions is required for safety and capacity reasons whether the road becomes motorway or not.
KrisW1001 wrote: » That's all fine, but it doesn't solve the need for a safe, efficient corridor for road freight, which will be much more evident as continental transport shifts from the UK land-bridge and Dublin Port to direct sailings into Rosslare. The current N11 is a dog's dinner - too narrow to add bus-lanes, too many junctions for efficient (and lower emission) travel, too many on-road developments. It's basically a local road, but for lack of any alternatives, it has to function as a long-distance national route too. I know the tunnel option is prohibitively expensive, but I think it's the only one that has a positive impact on everyone (except the exchequer, of course...). The current N11 can get a proper dedicated public transport corridor, a toll-for-cars tunnel like M50 is can keep lorries out of the Glen, and in combination with reducing the existing road to bus+bus plus single carriageway plus cycleways will still discourage increased car commuting. Also, by going under properties, through what is mostly granite, removes the problems of CPO and loss of woodland. It's a shame it's multiple times the cost of the alternatives, really... of all the options, it's the only one that would come close to the imaginary "billion euros" figure that people are bandying about.
schmittel wrote: » I think the tunnel is a crazy idea because of the problems building it whilst trying to keep the corridor open for traffic at the same time. I'm assuming it's a pretty major engineering project and not likely to be possible to happily work away without huge problems.
punisher5112 wrote: » Yes but this isn't happening, it's left like it is the last 22-23 years..... It will be happening in these changes to motorway though, well that's obviously the plan.
josip wrote: » As regards the loss of woodland, why don't they CPO some of the farmland either side of the N11 and adjacent to the current woodland. Play the long game and plant it with the same "stuff" that's in the current woodland, build a couple of wildlife bridges like these, https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/23/how-wildlife-crossings-are-helping-reindeer-bears-and-even-crabs-aoe and widen the N11 to 3 lane motorway? It'd be much cheaper than a tunnel and the woodland cover could increase without the massive costs of an alternative route/tunnel.
punisher5112 wrote: » The only way it could work is if it were off to the side where works could then be done up until changeover. I don't see that happening.
KrisW1001 wrote: » The tunnelled route option is a good distance to the west of the current N11.
KrisW1001 wrote: » https://n11m11.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Public-Consultation-Interim-Update-DEC-2020-For-Publishing.pdf A tunnel was proposed between two points on the existing road, but that does not mean a tunnel will go directly under the road - that idea is down to journalists failing at reading comprehension again. I suspect it would go to the west, between the current road and the Cyan option, which has also proceeded to the next phase. Looking at the Cyan option to the West of the Glen, it is either going to need very deep cuttings or some tunnelled sections too.
