FrancieBrady wrote: » Yes John Hume...how did it work out for him, 'uniting with belligerent Unionism. We know he united with SF to deliver the GFA for nationalists.
markodaly wrote: » Work out for whom? John Hume, the man who is seen as arguably the greatest Irishman from the latter half of the 20th century? His legacy is secured, apart from a few grumbling fanatical Irish Republicans who see it as a threat to the legacy and myth-making of the PIRA campaign. See, that is the SF problem right there, always looking to eek out an advantage, a few % here or there, which will be their downfall. Never looking at the bigger picture.
Triangle wrote: » In all fairness, Mary lou is the trump equivalent in ireland, she says the populist iteam on the agenda and changes depending on the wind. Not to mention being devicive, polarisation and nationalistic and anti EU. She's as bad as FG/FF with their game spinning agendas
FrancieBrady wrote: » How did that work out for him? SF live in the 'territory' afaik.
markodaly wrote: » Well it is their pet project and the main drive behind a border poll. SF types see it as conquest of territory while John Hume was correct of course saying one must unite people, not land.
FrancieBrady wrote: » If you want to cod yourself that a UI s owned by SF you might have a point.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Yes, they do have a habit of flip flopping. But it is wrong to say SF are the only ones who are pushing a UI...Mary Lou very adamantly said as recently as last night that she doesn't think one should be held tomorrow but rather when the preparations are done...exactly what the SDLP are saying now.https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/07/21/news/colum-eastwood-says-border-poll-should-be-called-when-it-s-winnable-2011135/
blanch152 wrote: » SDLP are not pushing for a border poll.https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/07/21/news/colum-eastwood-says-border-poll-should-be-called-when-it-s-winnable-2011135/ "He said a border poll would be the "last thing you do"." All nationalist parties want a border poll when the time is right, all of them except Sinn Fein don't believe the time is right, Sinn Fein are the only ones pushing for a border poll. Sinn Fein are out on their own on this one, as a supporter of republicanism, you should be proud of this, rather than trying to hide among the others.
FrancieBrady wrote: » So are you just going to deny that the SDLP also want a poll and were 'pushing' for one at the end of the Brexit negotiations? Another attempt to other SF up in smoke.
blanch152 wrote: » I never said that the SDLP didn't support a united Ireland, you are reading stuff into my posts that isn't there, in order to somehow prove me wrong. I said what I said, the only party in Northern Ireland pushing a border poll is Sinn Fein.
FrancieBrady wrote: » When the preparation is done. They are all saying that. If you vote for the SDLP or SF you know you are voting for parties that support a UI blanch...no amount of twisting will change that.
blanch152 wrote: » Let's be clear, I said "pushing" a border poll. FG, FF, Labour, SDLP, even elements of the DUP are in favour of a border poll sometime, but it is only SF in the North who are pushing a border poll.
FrancieBrady wrote: » ahem....https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fsdlp-calls-for-border-poll-on-united-ireland-after-brexit-negotiations-1.3101566
blanch152 wrote: » In the North, the only party pushing a border poll in the next 10 years is Sinn Fein. They are losing votes every election. If you can't see the connection.....
James Brown wrote: » And unless Coveney, Ahern and Kenny are secret shinners.
a very cool kid wrote: » So 4 years ago.....
markodaly wrote: » They are also moving away from Nationalism, if the polls and latest eletion results are anything to go by. Sinn Fein support peaked some years back and the younger generation are not too fussed about the Green and Orange divide. Maybe that is why SF are so keen to have this border poll now, as they fear the new generation coming soon dont really care for either SF or the DUP.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Why would they 'fear' it? The Unionist parties are hemorrhaging support with the DUP predicted to be in trouble in the next elections. What is coming through 'politically' is people moving away from Unionism and a massive upswing in the discussion of a UI and with Brexit only getting going that is going to increase. Nobody is talking about anything else that I can see.
blanch152 wrote: » That minority might not vote for staying in the UK, but that doesn't mean that they'll vote for a united Ireland. It is time for a revision of the GFA to recognise the legitimate aspirations of the minority who prefer a Northern Irish identity to either a British or Irish identity.
blanch152 wrote: » Political parties that are neither unionist nor nationalist by default favour a Northern Irish identity. It will take time for that politically to come through, but it is a sign of nationalist fear of that identity that is driving the push for a border poll sooner than later.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Well, looking around, the only political entity looking to revise the GFA are the DUP and it isn't to give voice to a NI identity. This identity is not looking like forming a political party of it's own either. I'm not aware of any political party here proposing that either. So good luck with that one.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Or clinging to the idea that there are 3 and that 2 of them are always going to vote for continued partition. Naomi Long at least pointed that out.
blanch152 wrote: » There is no reason why Northern Ireland couldn't be as successful as other small countries such as Malta, Cyprus, Estonia and Latvia, all much smaller, all proud independent members of the EU. It was interesting to hear a unionist recognise the reality of three minorities in the North last night.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Or - if you use normal societal value ratings, partition and the northern statelet has failed abysmally?
blanch152 wrote: » https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/deeply-divided-northern-ireland-education-system-unsustainable-and-unaffordable-40228130.html Very interesting article about the dreadful education system in the North. One snippet caught the eye, as it could be used nearly about every SF policy "Sinn Fein continue to be somewhat ambivalent despite their public pronouncements about removing selection" i.e. say the right thing in public but do nothing about it.
