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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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liamog

Kramer wrote: »

OI'd say Hyundai/Kia/VW have more leeway to stay within the €50k too - especially VW, no tarriff on their €uropean produced cars.

No tariffs between Korea and the EU on automotive since about 2015. We may see Hyundai and Kia drop the spec level of their EVs to bring them under the grants. It will be a whole new version of Paddy Spec cars.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

No tariffs between Korea and the EU on automotive since about 2015. We may see Hyundai and Kia drop the spec level of their EVs to bring them under the grants. It will be a whole new version of Paddy Spec cars.

To be fair, some budget spec EVs would be good to see, a lot of short range daily drivers don't care about the luxuries and just want a car to get from A to B

DrPhilG

cruisey1987 wrote: »

To be fair, some budget spec EVs would be good to see, a lot of short range daily drivers don't care about the luxuries and just want a car to get from A to B

True, but the irritating thing about Paddy Spec is that you don't get a choice.

Make the basic version by all means. But if you're going to strip €5k worth of stuff out of the car, then let me pay the €5k to add it back in if I choose to do so.

Although if they did do that, it would be more like strip €4k of stuff out and charge €6k to put it back.

timsey tiger

ELM327 wrote: »

The best thing you can do for the environment is a) not buy any new car and b) walk everywhere

'I'd say you're fun at parties, but then I'm a compulsive liar.

Banana Republic 1

DrPhilG wrote: »

True, but the irritating thing about Paddy Spec is that you don't get a choice.

Make the basic version by all means. But if you're going to strip €5k worth of stuff out of the car, then let me pay the €5k to add it back in if I choose to do so.

Although if they did do that, it would be more like strip €4k of stuff out and charge €6k to put it back.

Agh the paddy spec I remember a time when....

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

It will be a whole new version of Paddy Spec cars.

Oh dear God no

.
Then again, it seems Paddy likes getting shafted, so windie window handles & cloth seats it is then!

cruisey1987 wrote: »

To be fair, some budget spec EVs would be good to see

But budget here will mean €40k+.

DrPhilG wrote: »

Make the basic version by all means. But if you're going to strip €5k worth of stuff out of the car, then let me pay the €5k to add it back in if I choose to do so.

The trouble is, adding back in that €5k worth of "luxury extras" (powered windows, a radio, steering wheel etc.

), will cost €10k if it exceeds the grant cap, which it will.

DrPhilG

Kramer wrote: »

The trouble is, adding back in that €5k worth of "luxury extras" (powered windows, a radio, steering wheel etc. ), will cost €10k if it exceeds the grant cap, which it will.

Going forward, yes. But even then if someone is rich enough and stupid enough then give them the option.

But it was the same with every other car before these changes.

the_amazing_raisin

DrPhilG wrote: »

True, but the irritating thing about Paddy Spec is that you don't get a choice.

Make the basic version by all means. But if you're going to strip €5k worth of stuff out of the car, then let me pay the €5k to add it back in if I choose to do so.

Although if they did do that, it would be more like strip €4k of stuff out and charge €6k to put it back.

Fair point, and unfortunately it'll likely get worse across the board since importing a cheaper, higher spec car from the UK isn't an option anymore

Banana Republic 1

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Fair point, and unfortunately it'll likely get worse across the board since importing a cheaper, higher spec car from the UK isn't an option anymore

When VW start adding a car alarm as an option it’s a sign of things to come.

whippet

looks like I am about to fall in to the BEV abyss .... we replaced one car with a BMW 330e last year and were going to hold on to the old diesel estate for a while but with lock down and a few issues with the car I've decided that if it isn't being moved / driven it will just sit down and die on me.

I am thinking of pulling the trigger on a new Leaf SVE 40KwH ... range isn't a big issue on this car as the BMW is the 'good' car.

is there any wise words from the regulars here who would advise against it ?

AndyBoBandy

whippet wrote: »

I am thinking of pulling the trigger on a new Leaf SVE 40KwH ... range isn't a big issue on this car as the BMW is the 'good' car.

is there any wise words from the regulars here who would advise against it ?

How much would that Leaf set you back?

whippet

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

How much would that Leaf set you back?

about €24k .. including scrappage on my old yoke.

AndyBoBandy

whippet wrote: »

about €24k .. including scrappage on my old yoke.

Thats not too bad..

Downside (though it's really an upside) is CHAdeMO fast charging is capped at 60kW for 'if' you'd ever need to fast charge on a long journey... Reason I say upside is because 50% of the eCars fast charging network is effectively exclusively for the Nissan Leaf.

But given you have the Beemer for the longer drives, I'd guess 100% of the Leaf charging will be done at home?

If size wasn't an issue, you could also look at the Zoe ZE50 - 395 km range WLTP for a €27k car (before scrappage) is outstanding in my opinion.. You also get the added benefit of CCS (means you can use Ionity chargers on long trips).

Whats the WLTP range in the 40kWh Leaf? edit: I see it's 270km

whippet

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Thats not too bad..

Downside (though it's really an upside) is CHAdeMO fast charging is capped at 60kW for 'if' you'd ever need to fast charge on a long journey... Reason I say upside is because 50% of the eCars fast charging network is effectively exclusively for the Nissan Leaf.

But given you have the Beemer for the longer drives, I'd guess 100% of the Leaf charging will be done at home?

If size wasn't an issue, you could also look at the Zoe ZE50 - 395 km range WLTP for a €27k car (before scrappage) is outstanding in my opinion.. You also get the added benefit of CCS (means you can use Ionity chargers on long trips).

Whats the WLTP range in the 40kWh Leaf?

its quoted at 270km .. realistically I wouldn't need anymore than that - as the BMW would be the car that would be for the longer trips. Even in the BMW with 45km range it covers most daily driving in EV mode

the Zoe would be too small .. have two kids!

I'd say almost all charging would be done at home as we can park both cars side by side at the charger and the BMW gets a full charge in 3 hours so isn't plugged in all the time

AndyBoBandy

if that's the case would you even consider going 2nd hand?

You could probably pick up an older (smaller battery) Leaf that would still do everything you needed, but keep €10k - €12k in your pocket...

Is your home charger tethered? as I believe only the newer LEaf's have the type 2 socket on them (older ones are type 1 only I believe?)

whippet

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

if that's the case would you even consider going 2nd hand?

You could probably pick up an older (smaller battery) Leaf that would still do everything you needed, but keep €10k - €12k in your pocket...

Is your home charger tethered? as I believe only the newer LEaf's have the type 2 socket on them (older ones are type 1 only I believe?)

I'd buy new alright - its one of my weaknesses - I've never bought a 2nd hand car .. I tend to keep mine for 8 years or so while the wife changes every three years.

The charger we have isn't tethered .. and the BMW uses a type2

AndyBoBandy

Would you not go balls out and get a Tesla Model 3? double the price of the Leaf, but quadruple the fun!!!!
Our intention is to keep ours for at least 8-10 years...

It would also quickly relegate the BMW down to auxiliary car....

whippet

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Would you not go balls out and get a Tesla Model 3? double the price of the Leaf, but quadruple the fun!!!!
Our intention is to keep ours for at least 8-10 years...

It would also quickly relegate the BMW down to auxiliary car....

after dropping 50k on the BMW last year this one is most definitely the 'second' car in the house. also - I just don't like the Tesla - I did consider it last year and the BMW won over by a large margin

yop

Apologise if mentioned already.
But I see Energia are doing an EV Package rate for electric vehicles to be charged at night. For me having a night meter its 4 cents. Thats a big difference to the 9 cents I'm paying at the moment.

the_amazing_raisin

yop wrote: »

Apologise if mentioned already.
But I see Energia are doing an EV Package rate for electric vehicles to be charged at night. For me having a night meter its 4 cents. Thats a big difference to the 9 cents I'm paying at the moment.

You need to watch that one because the day rate is a lot higher. I think you need to be using well over 50% on the night rate for it to pay off

It didn't work for us because we're both at home so using a lot of day rate electricity

unkel

yop wrote: »

Apologise if mentioned already.
But I see Energia are doing an EV Package rate for electric vehicles to be charged at night. For me having a night meter its 4 cents. Thats a big difference to the 9 cents I'm paying at the moment.

I switched (mid contract) to their new EV package a few weeks ago. Night rate is down to an incredible 4.79c / kWh incl. VAT. Day rate has gone up by a bit over 2c to high 16c (from memory)

You break even (compared to Energia's current plan, which is the best in the market for most users) if you use a bit more than 50% on the night rate hours. I switched mainly as a stick and carrot approach for myself to try move more use to the night rate where it is far friendlier to the environment and mostly already on renewables. And of course if I succeed, I save a bit of money too

MJohnston

Presumably this is still not available to those of us with Smart meters? The rollout of those has been utterly useless.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

I switched (mid contract) to their new EV package a few weeks ago.

From another provider with a penalty? Or from another Energia tariff without charge?

I'm considering it too. Just came back to Energia a few months ago. Pre-solar I was using about 60% night rate. Not sure of the breakdown now. I'm obviously using less during the day due to solar covering the load, but I also don't have near as much overnight use because in good months I'm doing washing, drying, dishes etc in daytime rather than overnight.

I'll go dig up my last bill and see what the % was.

DrPhilG

For comparison then:

First post solar bill last year:
150 day units
414 night
73% night use

Latest bill (including a month of charging battery overnight):
316 day
831 night
72% night use

So yeah, assuming that the standing charge remains the same I'd be better off on the EV rate.

Very rough estimate, would have saved €10 on that first bill, and about €6 on the latest one.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

From another provider with a penalty? Or from another Energia tariff without charge?

From another Energia tariff (mid-contract) without charge. And I specifically asked was this open to all Energia customers to switch without penalty and they confirmed

And in the case of anyone who has a battery or is thinking of getting (a bigger) one, this will also speed up the pay back time of your battery as using it during the day is now more beneficial and loading it up at night is now cheaper than before

AndyBoBandy

unkel wrote: »

From another Energia tariff (mid-contract) without charge. And I specifically asked was this open to all Energia customers to switch without penalty and they confirmed

And in the case of anyone who has a battery or is thinking of getting (a bigger) one, this will also speed up the pay back time of your battery as using it during the day is now more beneficial and loading it up at night is now cheaper than before

Is there a set amount of kWh of an allowance per month before being penalised with a higher rate, or is that rate open ended??

Would make Solar & a battery really attractive.....

Day rate usage: 0kWh
Night rate usage: hundreds and hundreds of kWh

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

From another Energia tariff (mid-contract) without charge. And I specifically asked was this open to all Energia customers to switch without penalty and they confirmed

Excellent, thanks for confirming.

unkel wrote: »

And in the case of anyone who has a battery or is thinking of getting (a bigger) one

Lol, that would be me!

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Is there a set amount of kWh of an allowance per month before being penalised with a higher rate, or is that rate open ended??

I was looking at that too, very hard to find the details of max usage (as their current plan has a max usage policy)??

unkel

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Is there a set amount of kWh of an allowance per month before being penalised with a higher rate

There is, but it is huge, several thousand units per 2 months billing cycle. Most people wouldn't hit that unless you have a large house with only electric heating and probably 2 EVs

And yes, the target for all of us should be to get as high a percentage on the night rate as we can within reason. Best for the pocket and best for the planet. Best for grid stabilisation in a world of increasing electricity consumption and decreasing fossil fuel burning.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Lol, that would be me!

That was aimed at you

But also at anyone else considering it. I too have a smallish powerwall with about 4.5kWh capacity, but I ordered cells making up 10kWh usuable about a month ago. Hopefully in future our cars can be used as massive home attached storage too, stabilising the grid, charging up at night for nearly free and giving us an income during the day when we can sell electricity at peak times