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Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

Keano

Time to discuss what golf is going to look like for next year, maybe more, who knows.

What is your club doing? What would you like to see happen?

Mod note: we have done to death the restrictions(5k jumping to 20k in June) so this is not a thread for discussing that topic, take it to COVID-19 forum

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Bill Ponderosa

As crazy as it is I'd take 2 balls if it means golf opens.

I'd imagine it will be casual golf for the rest of the year?

opinionated3

Bill Ponderosa wrote: »

As crazy as it is I'd take 2 balls if it means golf opens.

I'd imagine it will be casual golf for the rest of the year?

Why? No difference to covid whether you play competitively or casually. Its this sort of ridiculous thinking that has us where are now...... begging for any sort of release and willing to accept whatever crumbs are thrown at us.

Bill Ponderosa

opinionated3 wrote: »

Why? No difference to covid whether you play competitively or casually. Its this sort of ridiculous thinking that has us where are now...... begging for any sort of release and willing to accept whatever crumbs are thrown at us.

I know but that's what golf Ireland and the government came up with last year. Obviously it's ridiculous but so has been the leadership.

youcancallmeal

Bill Ponderosa wrote: »

I know but that's what golf Ireland and the government came up with last year. Obviously it's ridiculous but so has been the leadership.

This is what worries me. Casual golf was fine for the first few weeks back last year but it gets old fast. Really just want to work on my handicap

First Up

opinionated3 wrote:

Why? No difference to covid whether you play competitively or casually. Its this sort of ridiculous thinking that has us where are now...... begging for any sort of release and willing to accept whatever crumbs are thrown at us.

I wouldn't mind a bit of practice before getting back to qualifying competitions. Plus, competitions have to be managed - entries and cards checked etc. That means someone has to go the club, set up the competition, handle the cards and other paperwork.

Nothing wrong with easing our way back with a few weeks of casual golf.

SEORG

youcancallmeal wrote: »

This is what worries me. Casual golf was fine for the first few weeks back last year but it gets old fast. Really just want to work on my handicap

It will be interesting to see what approach clubs apply to this. Technically you don’t need to play a comp to count towards your handicap anymore now that WHS is in place. You just declare the round before you start by signing into the computer & submitting the score & card afterwards.

[Deleted User]

What's this 2 ball nonsense?

Do we think sports like GAA or Soccer (even if only kids) are going to go back training in groups of 2 or up to 4 if from the same household. Give me a break.

opinionated3

First Up wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a bit of practice before getting back to qualifying competitions. Plus, competitions have to be managed - entries and cards checked etc. That means someone has to go the club, set up the competition, handle the cards and other paperwork.

Nothing wrong with easing our way back with a few weeks of casual golf.

I've served on our competition committee for the last number of years including last year. I know it's a lot trickier but we really got to grips with it and overall turned it into a success (albeit more time consuming). And no outbreaks of covid. Competitions are extremely important for revenue in our club, especially as the bar and restaurant will be closed for the foreseeable. I'd put up with maybe two weeks of casual golf to ease back in, but that's it.
Open them up.

youcancallmeal

SEORG wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what approach clubs apply to this. Technically you don’t need to play a comp to count towards your handicap anymore now that WHS is in place. You just declare the round before you start by signing into the computer & submitting the score & card afterwards.

Yeah I have US friends and they've always been puzzled by why we have to play in a qualifying comp for it to count towards our handicap. Hopefully the system you describe is introduced here soon. Would be nice to be able to play a round outside of competition and for it to mean something

Lip Out

opinionated3 wrote: »

I've served on our competition committee for the last number of years including last year. I know it's a lot trickier but we really got to grips with it and overall turned it into a success (albeit more time consuming). And no outbreaks of covid. Competitions are extremely important for revenue in our club, especially as the bar and restaurant will be closed for the foreseeable. I'd put up with maybe two weeks of casual golf to ease back in, but that's it.
Open them up.

Yes same as that with my club. Every effort was made to make the whole process of competitive golf very safe. Contactless payment and comp entry. Mark your own card and verbally verify with a playing partner. Enter your own score into the HowDidIDo app. Later on we reverted back to submitting marked cards into the comp returns box and then card checkers would use appropriate PPE when checking a few days later.

Clubs will need competition revenue straight away as visitors/greenfees won't be permitted for quite some time.

ClutchIt

Hope Golf Ireland have been working in the background here. I was out walking for a couple hours on Sat & Sun. Parks and walkways packed everywhere. Full cricket match being had both days in a field near me (fair play to them).
Golf is safer than any of this, and will help to reduce the density of people outdoors in other less controlled areas, such as parks. Same with GAA, tennis, rugby etc. I would allow all outdoor sporting to commence Apr 6th. It will not raise the cases, especially in the vulnerable categories, and will help peoples buy-in for other restrictions.

Seve OB

First Up wrote: »

competitions have to be managed - entries and cards checked etc. That means someone has to go the club, set up the competition, handle the cards and other paperwork.

Now you are around here long enough to know that all the handling can be avoided and comp set ups etc can all be done online from the comfort of your own living room.

Bill Ponderosa

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's this 2 ball nonsense?

Do we think sports like GAA or Soccer (even if only kids) are going to go back training in groups of 2 or up to 4 if from the same household. Give me a break.

Tell that to golf Ireland

RGS

I surprised clubs are still physically asking members to physically return cards.
We use an e purse, a digital log in,( I can enter the competition from my kitchen table whilst having breakfast) memebrs do complete their scorecard and have the score verified but the card is not returned to the comp sec. We use a digital scorecard( again I can enter my score when I get home from playing) and we request members to email the comp sec with their card if the achieve a certain score, so he can ensure the winning cards are correctly completed.

We believe this ensures people continue to mark the scorecard correctly and ensure its verified by a fellow competitor.

Its a great help to the comp sec who can sit at home and close the comp quickly and efficiently.

First Up

youcancallmeal wrote:

Yeah I have US friends and they've always been puzzled by why we have to play in a qualifying comp for it to count towards our handicap. Hopefully the system you describe is introduced here soon. Would be nice to be able to play a round outside of competition and for it to mean something

Handicaps are a joke in the US. When I was a club member there you could put any score you wanted into the computer and out popped a handicap. No checking of scores; people taking Mulligans, gimmies, improving their lies and similar.

If a handicap is to mean anything - especially for inter club - it has to be based on the rules of golf.

First Up

RGS wrote:

We believe this ensures people continue to mark the scorecard correctly and ensure its verified by a fellow competitor.

Its a great help to the comp sec who can sit at home and close the comp quickly and efficiently.

Are all clubs set up for that? If all handicaps meet GUI standards then fair enough but the system has to be consistent and trustworthy everywhere. Internal non-qualifying comps might a first step.

In any case, I think all clubs would welcome a bit of casual golf time to get re-started.

youcancallmeal

First Up wrote: »

Handicaps are a joke in the US. When I was a club member there you could put any score you wanted into the computer and out popped a handicap. No checking of scores; people taking Mulligans, gimmies, improving their lies and similar.

If a handicap is to mean anything - especially for inter club - it has to be based on the rules of golf.

True, more often than not I find Americans with low handicaps they can't play to because of the loose way they record their scores. I'd still like the option to play 'casual' and have it count towards handicap as long as there is someone playing with you who will sign your card

PabloAndRoy

youcancallmeal wrote: »

True, more often than not I find Americans with low handicaps they can't play to because of the loose way they record their scores. I'd still like the option to play 'casual' and have it count towards handicap as long as there is someone playing with you who will sign your card

This is part of the WHS system and will be available to us once we are back at it. The only caveat is that there must be a minumum number of people also putting in cards in order to calculate the PCC on the day. (In my head that minmum number is 8, but I can't be sure of that.)

RoadRunner

youcancallmeal wrote: »

True, more often than not I find Americans with low handicaps they can't play to because of the loose way they record their scores.

off topic, but in another thread, someone posted a podcast for chasing scratch where two american golfers starting a 11hc are trying to reach stratch. Halfway through they figure out that two 9hole comps can be played back to back and will combine to give a handicap as if it was one 18. They obviously play with buggies over there and 9 holes can be done in ~45m-1hr. So when they've a good 9 played. They turn it and go out the next day and try to play another good 9 to match it. They are selecting courses that suit them and they have dropped from 11 to ~6hc where I am right now.

Back on to the topic.
I don't like to see 2ball or extra large gaps between groups as part of the discussion surrounding return to golf. If there's genuine worry about handling of cards for competition purposes (in clubs that are "backwards" in relation to tech) then kill competitions for a while on the return - competition revenue should be coming back to competition winners anyway so it shouldn't make any odds to the running of clubs. But lets not start the return to golf as being only 2 people allowed per 2 holes or something daft like that.

youcancallmeal

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

This is part of the WHS system and will be available to us once we are back at it. The only caveat is that there must be a minumum number of people also putting in cards in order to calculate the PCC on the day. (In my head that minmum number is 8, but I can't be sure of that.)

Interesting, so you could have the round of your life and it may not count because the minimum number wasn't hit. Also I would envisage a lot of people not putting cards in if they have an awful round. The no returns in competitions was really bad last year in my club but all they did was send out an email urging people to put their score in regardless of how they did. I heard they used to punish serial offenders at handicap review time but seems like they haven't done it in a few years. The handicap secretary probably didn't want the grief

PabloAndRoy

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Interesting, so you could have the round of your life and it may not count because the minimum number wasn't hit. Also I would envisage a lot of people not putting cards in if they have an awful round. The no returns in competitions was really bad last year in my club but all they did was send out an email urging people to put their score in regardless of how they did. I heard they used to punish serial offenders at handicap review time but seems like they haven't done it in a few years. The handicap secretary probably didn't want the grief

I am still unclear on how not handing in cards will be handled. With regard to non-competition rounds going toward your handicap, you need to state before your round that you will be entering a card for the round. Will clubs charge for this?

I guess if there is a morning comp and you don't want to compete, you could still play 18 in the afternoon and the round could go towards your handicap index. That way there will be a PCC from the comp in the morning.

All this has nothing to do with this thread, but at least it is about golf

blue note

youcancallmeal wrote: »

True, more often than not I find Americans with low handicaps they can't play to because of the loose way they record their scores. I'd still like the option to play 'casual' and have it count towards handicap as long as there is someone playing with you who will sign your card

Ha, this reminds me of a time when I was a junior and I caddied for a Texan. He bogeyed the first hole and talked to himself after - "it's okay baby, we can make that back." So I thought great, I'm caddying for a scratch or thereabouts golfer if he's basing himself off level par. Then a double or triple on the second and walking onto the next hole he's telling himself "it's okay baby, plenty of golf left, we can make those back." Two holes in it was very obvious that this guy would struggle to shoot 72 on a pitch and putt course!

It turns out his handicap was 13 I think. Maybe he was just having an awful day, but I'd have guessed he was more of a 20 handicap guy. I do remember him getting a birdie on the 12th though and that was enough for him to remember it as a good round. After it he was talking about how he was having a poor round but he managed to turn it around. He so did not! He had a stinker of a round and a birdie in the middle of it. I think that's just the American confidence (delusion) that isn't as common here.

Although, however bad my rounds are I always manage to look back at the positives from them and dismiss the negatives. So I went months last year hardly ever breaking 30 points but coming in each time thinking there's a good score in me, I'm striking it well, if I can just get rid of those 6 scratches per round I'll be contending!

First Up

PabloAndRoy wrote:

I am still unclear on how not handing in cards will be handled. With regard to non-competition rounds going toward your handicap, you need to state before your round that you will be entering a card for the round. Will clubs charge for this?

If it's a competition (qualifying or not), a player has to submit a signed card. During Covid we have been filling in our own cards and another in the group tracks and confirms the score.

But whoever is overseeing the competition still has to handle the cards afterwards.

PabloAndRoy

First Up wrote: »

If it's a competition (qualifying or not), a player has to submit a signed card. During Covid we have been filling in our own cards and another in the group tracks and confirms the score.

But whoever is overseeing the competition still has to handle the cards afterwards.

I was talking people not putting in cards under the new WHS. I am only playing a couple of years, but i regularly played competions where some of the long time members didn't put in their card after a poor round. I played with one guy who said he never puts his card in.

First Up

PabloAndRoy wrote:

I was talking people not putting in cards under the new WHS. I am only playing a couple of years, but i regularly played competions where some of the long time members didn't put in their card after a poor round. I played with one guy who said he never puts his card in.

That really messes up the SCC. Some clubs suspend members' access to competition time if they do it twice.

RGS

First Up wrote: »

But whoever is overseeing the competition still has to handle the cards afterwards.

Handling cards by the comp sec is not necessary now. Our comp secretary hasn't handled a card since we came back after the 1st lockdown.

As I stated we just get the better scoring cards emailed to the comp sec and if there are issues they are investigated and if necessary a DQ will follow.

In the current climate we have to make changes to our previous way of doing things and adapt.

PabloAndRoy

RGS wrote: »

...

In the current climate we have to make changes to our previous way of doing things and adapt.

I only started playing comps in 2020, so I will need to adapt to the normal way of doings things in 2022 (hopefully).

First Up

RGS wrote:

Handling cards by the comp sec is not necessary now. Our comp secretary hasn't handled a card since we came back after the 1st lockdown.

As I stated we just get the better scoring cards emailed to the comp sec and if there are issues they are investigated and if necessary a DQ will follow.

In the current climate we have to make changes to our previous way of doing things and adapt.

Of course we must adapt but what you describe only works for prizes - not handicaps. To calculate Standard Scratch you need all scores and getting everyone's cooperation for that to work with emails is a big ask.

We will see what can be done over time but in the short term, we would be better off with casual golf. Getting people safely around the course and clubhouse is enough to be going on with.

PabloAndRoy

First Up wrote: »

Of course we must adapt but what you describe only works for prizes - not handicaps. To calculate Standard Scratch you need all scores and getting everyone's cooperation for that to work with emails is a big ask.

We will see what can be done over time but in the short term, we would be better off with casual golf. Getting people safely around the course and clubhouse is enough to be going on with.

CSS & SSS are now gone AFAIK. WHS calculates the PCC (Playing Condition Calculation). The same applies, you need all score cards returned to get an accurate calculation.

I think the point being made above was that everyone puts in scores via computer/app and just the top scorers email a photo of their card.

Seve OB

First Up wrote: »

If it's a competition (qualifying or not), a player has to submit a signed card. During Covid we have been filling in our own cards and another in the group tracks and confirms the score.

But whoever is overseeing the competition still has to handle the cards afterwards.

were you living under a rock last year?

concessions were made that allowed scores to be entered via app.
i'm pretty sure that it was not required to fill in an actual card but scorecards could be photographed and sent by whats app or email etc where clubs requested

absolutely no need for anyone to handle the cards.