Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Isambard wrote: »

my layman interpretation of that is that IE note the Councils Velorail aim and dismisses it in favour of a Greenway

As they say in the police force "no sh1t sherlock" Indeed and the problem the velorail has is called the N5 the velorail can go no further north of Kiltimagh than it has permission for, total lack of public support in Swinford and Charlestown, not that it has much support in Kiltimagh, They can't get their hands on anymore money for more capex with Ring not in dept of community affairs anymore and MCC will finally see it as a millstone around their neck financially, the project is already a financial embarrassment and concern for MCC.

That's it in a nutshell really!

Isambard

westtip wrote: »

As they say in the police force "no sh1t sherlock" Indeed and the problem the velorail has is called the N5 the velorail can go no further north of Kiltimagh than it has permission for, total lack of public support in Swinford and Charlestown, not that it has much support in Kiltimagh, They can't get their hands on anymore money for more capex with Ring not in dept of community affairs anymore and MCC will finally see it as a millstone around their neck financially, the project is already a financial embarrassment and concern for MCC.

That's it in a nutshell really!

when you resort to sarcasm aimed at people with a slightly different point if view, you don't gain much cred in my eyes.

eastwest wrote: »

The velorail supporters broke cover this week and showed that they are just the railway lobby in a clown's suit. They are now talking about battery powered carts, and extending the project towards the sligo border.
Oh look! It's a train!

It is a single track line. How do the Velorail vehicles pass each other? If they do not pass each other, what is the point?

If they are battery powered, they will be heavy. This has not been thought out very well.

[Deleted User]

Sam Russell wrote: »

This has not been thought out very well.

The velorail in one sentence

Isambard wrote: »

when you resort to sarcasm aimed at people with a slightly different point if view, you don't gain much cred in my eyes.

Holy moly man I was agreeing with your interpretation, I use that line all the time with folk, it is hardly sarcasm, it is just saying yes you are right in what you say, and yes you are right, Irish Rail are effectively saying stick a greenway down on the route....apologies if I offended you in the way I responded!!

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is a single track line. How do the Velorail vehicles pass each other? If they do not pass each other, what is the point?

If they are battery powered, they will be heavy. This has not been thought out very well.

Some hovering definitely part of the plan.

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is a single track line. How do the Velorail vehicles pass each other? If they do not pass each other, what is the point?

If they are battery powered, they will be heavy. This has not been thought out very well.

SR you gotta understand the velorail was about stop the greenway at all costs. It has completely backfired on Mayo coco, as Irish Rail clearly has a preference for Greenway. There is not much public sentiment that supports Velorail in East Mayo, the sponsors, IRD have wound up so many people in that town, they have split the town in two, and yet they still seem to be able to charm money out of MCC. MCC giving an unconditional support to Velorail in county plan are committing to a project the public don't support and is going to be a drain on resources, finally the money will stop flowing and the VR will fall flat on its face. These crazy off the wall suggestions should be fired in the bin but in truth the way things work with the WOT influence on MCC you just never know....Nothing would surprise me with MCC.

I understand the motive behind Velorail, just not the logic.

By the way, I am not the Sam Mayo are seeking.

Sam Russell wrote: »

I understand the motive behind Velorail, just not the logic.

By the way, I am not the Sam Mayo are seeking.

I think a lot of decisions made in that part of the world are based on 'wouldnt it be great to have a'........ thinking.
Insert 'rail corridor,' 'velorail,' 'link to knock airport,' 'freight train with woo-hoo whistle,' etc.

eastwest wrote: »

I think a lot of decisions made in that part of the world are based on 'wouldnt it be great to have a'........ thinking.
Insert 'rail corridor,' 'velorail,' 'link to knock airport,' 'freight train with woo-hoo whistle,' etc.

'But who is going to feed the Gondolas Velorails?'

Rather than the Velorail vehicles that cannot pass each other, and so are useless on a single track railway. why not use four wheel buggies that can work very well on a greenway?

This has not been thought through.

mayo.mick

Sam Russell wrote: »

'But who is going to feed the Gondolas Velorails?'

Rather than the Velorail vehicles that cannot pass each other, and so are useless on a single track railway. why not use four wheel buggies that can work very well on a greenway?

This has not been thought through.

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mayo.mick wrote: »

Yea that is what I had in mind - but perhaps with four wheels and two doing the bit with the pedals.

CrabRevolution

eastwest wrote: »

I think a lot of decisions made in that part of the world are based on 'wouldnt it be great to have a'........ thinking.
Insert 'rail corridor,' 'velorail,' 'link to knock airport,' 'freight train with woo-hoo whistle,' etc.

What's stranger is that EU/T-ENT funding is sometimes mentioned, under the bizarre impression that EU funding is distributed based on the same "I don't care about business cases and returns on investment, we deserve an X in the west" philosophy common in county councils.

CrabRevolution wrote: »

What's stranger is that EU/T-ENT funding is sometimes mentioned, under the bizarre impression that EU funding is distributed based on the same "I don't care about business cases and returns on investment, we deserve an X in the west" philosophy common in county councils.

Exactly CR, The EY reports and Jaspers (in particular this one) have been dismissed because west on track don't like them, but they are sitting there as the definitive reports on this whole debacle, they need to be the point of reference when it comes to the "sure we will get money from Europe" idea....Just to remind those folks who think that is the case, lets just look at what Jaspers said, it is this kind of reality those folks are burying their head in the sand over.

Even as part of the Comprehensive Network, the European added value of the current project would still need to be demonstrated, which would require an elaboration of its strategic role in providing connectivity to nodes of the Core Network. It is noted that the award of grants through CEF is subject to a competitive evaluation, and traditionally there is a significant oversubscription of available funding. As such, the probability of being selected
in a competitive call cannot be considered as high in the absence of such a case.
10.5 In the context of lending from EU Financing Institutions (most notably EIB), the project selection process is subject to technical reviews of the project documentation, examining the financial and economic case, as well as general project need, scope, risks and impacts. It is likely that during such review that the issues noted throughout this note would be highlighted, and would influence the final decision. We consider that that gaining support for
project financing of the proposal in its current form would be a challenge.

CrabRevolution wrote: »

What's stranger is that EU/T-ENT funding is sometimes mentioned, under the bizarre impression that EU funding is distributed based on the same "I don't care about business cases and returns on investment, we deserve an X in the west" philosophy common in county councils.

There is a view, based on nothing, that politicians can 'get' funding where others cannot. Daft as it seems, it has elected many of them.

Captain Lugger

eastwest wrote: »

I see the rail lobby has made their submission to the Mayo County Development Plan

Reads like the writer(s) of that well-known FB page, West-on-Crack. A bit like farting in a crowded room and shouting out, “Joe! Ya smelly bastid! I toul ye to ease back on the Guinness”. Everyone then knows who really dealt it...

It is going to be interesting to see the response of Mayo coco to the submissions they have received on the county plan this time around, looks like they might hit a thousand submissions demanding a greenway this time around, nearly all of them from the East Mayo Towns that the greenway will link......Let's see their response this time around.

Greaney

westtip wrote: »

looks like they might hit a thousand submissions demanding a greenway this time around

Was there an official 'call' for greenway submissions from Mayo County Council?

mayo.mick

Greaney wrote: »

Was there an official 'call' for greenway submissions from Mayo County Council?

Mayo Co Co *Official* call for submissions.

#HaveYourSay

https://twitter.com/MayoDotIE/status/1370031821736542210

westtip wrote: »

looks like they might hit a thousand submissions demanding a greenway this time around.

That's a phenomenal response from the community, I'd almost say 'unprecedented.'
Has any CDP anywhere ever attracted this volume of submissions? Certainly it will be a record number for Mayo, I would say.
Although I doubt the Council will pay any attention. The submissions process is largely seen as a box-ticking exercise in democratic tokenism. They don't mind letting the common people let off steam, but they rarely depart from a pre-agreed agenda when it comes to the CDP. Didn't they completely ignore almost 300 submissions last time around on this topic, and get away with it? They know there's no kind of penalty to pay for doing the same thing again.
If they want change in East Mayo, the best way to get it is through the ballot box, by running their own candidates in a very strategic way.

ShaneC1600

Would the 1000 submissions include the pre printed free postcards which were handed out on the side of the road?

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Would the 1000 submissions include the pre printed free postcards which were handed out on the side of the road?

The ones individually signed, stamped and posted by concerned citizens?
Probably.
They also included one from the department of transport that strongly advised mayo county council to utilise the route as a greenway. Among others.

ezstreet5

ShaneC1600 wrote: »

Would the 1000 submissions include the pre printed free postcards which were handed out on the side of the road?

I looked at a lot of the "submissions" and they were just postcards saying, "I want a greenway." But there was no substance or content or anything. Just postcards.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I looked at a lot of the "submissions" and they were just postcards saying, "I want a greenway." But there was no substance or content or anything. Just postcards.

Scoff as you may the front of the postcard was written with 4 very deliberate points of discussion, which by the way the planners are obliged to consider. There is quite reasoned argument substance and content written on the front of those cards, and People also made short comment on the back. I don't see the words "I want a greenway" on the front of the cards, so when you find them on the front of the cards please do come back to me. Making these submissions is all part of democratic process, people taking the time and effort to take part; take a close look at the submission from the department of transport, go read what it says.

https://consult.mayo.ie/en/submission/myo-c11-1027/observation/dept-transport-submission#attachments

Read it then come back with more precious comments about "submissions", perhaps you should have written to the department asking them to defend the WRC against the evils of a greenway and to make a submission to MCC on the subject, maybe someone wrote to the minister asking him to intervene, oh as if!

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I looked at a lot of the "submissions" and they were just postcards saying, "I want a greenway." But there was no substance or content or anything. Just postcards.

Yes, just people saying what they wanted to see done with the route. So simplistic.
How dare they! Don't they understand that their elders and betters know better?

[Deleted User]

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I looked at a lot of the "submissions" and they were just postcards saying, "I want a greenway." But there was no substance or content or anything. Just postcards.

Why complicate it, people want a greenway, its simple really

ezstreet5

westtip wrote: »

Scoff as you may the front of the postcard was written with 4 very deliberate points of discussion, which by the way the planners are obliged to consider. There is quite reasoned argument substance and content written on the front of those cards, and People also made short comment on the back. I don't see the words "I want a greenway" on the front of the cards, so when you find them on the front of the cards please do come back to me. Making these submissions is all part of democratic process, people taking the time and effort to take part; take a close look at the submission from the department of transport, go read what it says.

https://consult.mayo.ie/en/submission/myo-c11-1027/observation/dept-transport-submission#attachments

Read it then come back with more precious comments.

I am genuinely not scoffing. It's just that with any public participation process, the receivers are acutely aware of duplicative submissions, and group them as such-basically as simplistic 'votes.' I don't doubt our discount the fact that everyone who submitted a postcard honestly believes that the line should be converted to a greenway, based on their own level of knowledge. I would question whether they were goaded to that belief, or whether they fully considered the benefits of a less sexy, but far more utilitarian railway serving their community.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why complicate it, people want a greenway, its simple really

Sure they only think they do. What would ordinary people know about what they want?
'Them that knows' know better.
And the department, sure what would they know? They only give out the money.
And Irish Rail? Don't get me started.

ShaneC1600

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I looked at a lot of the "submissions" and they were just postcards saying, "I want a greenway." But there was no substance or content or anything. Just postcards.

I was thinking that would be the case. I know they have to consider them but imagine having to review each and every copy and paste submission sent in because one person has the time to put in the effort in and the rest don't even have to pay a stamp.