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United Ireland....... Persuade the unionists.....

martinedwards

Ok instead of the usual, yellow numberplate/petrol bomb as soon as you cross the border/Derry girls are easy thread......

Boards seems to be a strongly Pro united Ireland community

Ok, lets say that there is a border poll.

Having a minority with strong anti ruler views has historically not been the most peaceful system in the North.

so,

how would you persuade the folk that are terrified of all the things that they PERCEIVE to be against them in an all island Irish nation?

and lets be honest, "Suck it up, my auntie Brigit was spat on by a brit soldier in 1972" isn't going to persuade the likes of Sammy Wilson that it's a good idea.

Discuss!

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The J Stands for Jay

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I really think people over-estimate the likelihood of a majority vote in the North for a United Ireland - the 'Catholic' portion of the population is lingering around the 45% mark, whilst although the 'Protestant' proportion is declining and ageing much faster, there is an increasing cohort of 'neither'. This new 'neither' cohort is far more likely to be convinced by more secular and pragmatic arguments about their future, and such pragmatism would probably lead them to stay in the UK. Even the process of Brexit has not stirred things up dramatically.

I dunno, they're getting a bit tetchy about Amazon not delivering loads of stuff now.

The J Stands for Jay

thomil wrote: »

And to be frank, this debate should also encompass potentially throwing out Republican or traditional Irish symbolism and heraldry altogether, or even the current political system of the Republic as a whole, if that's what's needed to make reunification work.

Everyone voting yes to get rid of their current politicians

vriesmays

Every small town up North will get enriched with a direct provision.

[Deleted User]

frosty123 wrote: »

Persuade the unionists??

Well I suppose we can start by stop bombing & killing them, especially those living along the border...but voting for the political wing of the terror group hell bent on ethnic cleansing them isn't going to help matters.

Not making much sense there frosty?

The J Stands for Jay

cameramonkey wrote: »

28 counties ? What are the other 2 counties ?

Fingal and DLR? New York and London? Or maybe just a typo.

The J Stands for Jay

Del2005 wrote: »

If the vote is to join an Ireland with a different flag, different national anthem and with each province becoming a federal state( the only viable solution to incorporate NI) that's not the Ireland they have been dreaming to join for generations. So not voting to join The Federal Union of Ireland, they want to join the Republic of Ireland , makes them unionist?

The nationalists will hold out till they sing Amhrán na bhFiann on their whole island Republic of Ireland under their Green White and Orange flag.

Sounds like a poor deal for Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan

Speedline

frosty123 wrote: »

Persuade the unionists??

Well I suppose we can start by stop bombing & killing them, especially those living along the border...but voting for the political wing of the terror group hell bent on ethnic cleansing them isn't going to help matters.

Who is 'we'? Are you a member of a paramilitary group?

Rawr

We could do a whole advert campaign to win over Unionists...kind of like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNQVLtqOcrc

Just change the end:
"The Republic of Ireland, We've made a few...changes..."

2lazytogetup

not sure why united ireland is the logical outcome. Glasgow and Dublin are similar distances from Belfast. Just because there is water between scotland and Northern Ireland means that there is less of a connection to republic of ireland and thus should be a united ireland. In times of cheap flights, globalisation and everything being virtual i dont see why we should become a united ireland.

the culture is alot different up there, especially in the protestant areas where i find them more like the English in their demenour.

and economically it will probably bankrupt the irish state if we had to fill the 8billion annual hole that the brits are filling through local government and civil servant jobs.

NI is not a warm place for us southerners. i think the focus should be on creating nicer relations between neighbours. we should negotiate them not having marches/ sticking up the union jack flags everywhere and n return we will ban sinn fein.

Dyr

Rawr wrote: »

We could do a whole advert campaign to win over Unionists...kind of like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNQVLtqOcrc

Just change the end:
"The Republic of Ireland, We've made a few...changes..."

I applaud your lighthearted post, others will be deleted by mods for not being lighthearted enough but yours is safe, thank god.

Orange Tiny Terror

Option 3, Northern Ireland grows up and becomes an independent country and stops screaming like a petulant child for what it wants from Dublin or London.

Montage of Feck

frosty123 wrote: »

Persuade the unionists??

Well I suppose we can start by stop bombing & killing them, especially those living along the border...but voting for the political wing of the terror group hell bent on ethnic cleansing them isn't going to help matters.

SF havent been a Nationalist party for quite a while now.

Del2005

mehico wrote: »

Conversations around a united Ireland often become polarised and folk from strong Unionist backgrounds are unlikely to be persuaded of the benefits of a UI but there is a large middle ground now in NI that will potentially hold the balance in any future border polls and this is the section of population that needs to be pursuaded either way.

Why do you assume that a united Ireland vote will be carried in the Republic? It'll take a lot of persuasion to get people to give up their flag and national anthem to take on the basket case propped up by public service jobs.

Edgware

Larbre34 wrote: »

I wouldn't try to persuade them. Their perception is totally and absolutely correct.

Fact is, they have been let down, even betrayed by their own representatives for decades now. Their time is over and thats all there is to it. We don't need them to agree to a United Ireland, 6 million to 0.8 million is a pretty easy bit of arithmetic understand. They can either remain where they are and live exactly as they always have, albeit electing to a Dublin parliament, or they can piss off to GB.

Either way, the momentum is unstoppable now, UI is leaving the station and building up steam.

You wont be saying that when your welfare payments are being cut

Edgware

Del2005 wrote: »

Why do you assume that a united Ireland vote will be carried in the Republic? It'll take a lot of persuasion to get people to give up their flag and national anthem to take on the basket case propped up by public service jobs.

We did well to ditch the lot of them in 1922. Nothing I have seen or heard of them in the last 50 years would encourage me to have them back.

Fr D Maugire

Whilst I would like to see a United Ireland some time in the future, I don't think we are anywhere near it. I don't really think we should be making many concessions to Unionists anyway, change flag and National Anthem. Yeah, no big deal. What else is there?

Unionists bang on about their culture, but WTF is their culture? We already speak English in Ireland and have a lot of common traits in our society due to our historical ties with Britain. Unionist culture seems to be nothing more that the OO/12th July which is just a ridiculous institution of intolerance and bigotry.

Change Protestant and Catholic to Black and White and then re-describe the OO. An organisation that was founded by whites after the killing of blacks by whites, and which has as it's main celebration, the victory of a white King over a black king and is marked every year by the whites, who insist on marching through majority black areas. Blacks are not allowed to join this order under any circumstances.

C'mon now, anywhere else in the world and such a blatantly bigoted and intolerant organisation would be banned. Yet, this is what Unionists view as their culture.

Zebra3

frosty123 wrote: »

Persuade the unionists??

Well I suppose we can start by stop bombing & killing them, especially those living along the border...but voting for the political wing of the terror group hell bent on ethnic cleansing them isn't going to help matters.

I don’t see unionists renouncing Britain’s right to commit war crimes.

Maybe they should lead the way.

[Deleted User]

The Unionists are not to be convinced on this. That’s why they are Unionists. I don’t understand why pandering to them would even be considered.
I also cannot fathom any reasonable person wishing for a UI at this stage of the game. There would be much more work convincing the Republics voters, myself included.
Leave it as it is.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

1922 to 1969 was effectively this....it essentially ended in civil war?....it would go same again,gowls talking about a federal/devolved stormont are blinded to history and facts,to a worrying degree

Il agree to disagree....imo its only viable option going forward

An independent Northern Ireland separate from the Republic and Britain is the only viable option.

Unification with the Republic would be a disaster for the Republic. The North would drag us down economically, and socially. There are simply too many problems continuing to exist there, and there isn't the will by them to resolve them. They're not going to accept Dublin telling them what to do, and that will increase the problems for everyone.

The only reason I can see from these kind of threads is the ideal/dream of a united Ireland... a tugging of heartstrings, devoid of practical consideration for what would happen thereafter.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

An independent Northern Ireland separate from the Republic and Britain is the only viable option.

Unification with the Republic would be a disaster for the Republic. The North would drag us down economically, and socially. There are simply too many problems continuing to exist there, and there isn't the will by them to resolve them. They're not going to accept Dublin telling them what to do, and that will increase the problems for everyone.

The only reason I can see from these kind of threads is the ideal/dream of a united Ireland... a tugging of heartstrings, devoid of practical consideration for what would happen thereafter.

This independant state has been tried...1922 to 1969 with effectively zero oversight and it decended into civil war.....need only look at dup carryon regards brexit to see how it would go again....personally dont want to see mates and relatives go through it again

The econmics of it,if taking britsh security obligations,pensions out of it,is less than half of what has been paid out in the PUP payment here so far (or less than what the childrens hospiteal is going to end up costing).....

Its fear mongoring british propaganda,a virtual copy and paste of what was said to malta in the 1960s,when they went about independance as regards not afford it etc......

I see no practical reason to pretend anything else will work,indo state,ended in a civil war,power sharing geos years on end without sitting and is a pointless farce at this stage,100 years and partition has been an utter utter failure here (and whereever the british have implented it...cyprus,kashmir,palestine.....its time to fix their mess once and for all here)

bilbot79

The answer is to give every single unionist' in the north a 50k relocation bonus to move to the UK. The British and Irish governments split the bill. Everybody wins.

[Deleted User]

bilbot79 wrote: »

The answer is to give every single unionist' in the north a 50k relocation bonus to move to the UK. The British and Irish governments split the bill. Everybody wins.

No....they have a place in a utd ireland (have something like a 66% likelyhood of being in each government)

They can prosper, thrive and raise lifestyle and prospects of working class loyalists beyond recognition....deporting/relocating to a country,that still has food banks and monarchy simutaneously,condemns them to generations of poverty,they are born in ireland and irish and we should do better by em

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

its time to fix their mess once and for all here)

Throughout that period, it was not independent.

You've proposed nothing to show that the mess will be fixed, nor a realistic time-frame during which the Republic will have to suffer through it. Economically, and socially, the North is a mess... and I've seen nothing here to suggest that the Republic could change that without crippling our own economy, even if we don't take into account the wide range of divisions within Northern societies, and the hatreds/agendas that continue to exist.

You keep repeating the idea of unification without dealing with the problems associated, simply because nothing else will "work"... and zero realistic estimation that unification would "work"

[Deleted User]

Make Ireland's Call the real anthem

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Throughout that period, it was not independent.

You've proposed nothing to show that the mess will be fixed, nor a realistic time-frame during which the Republic will have to suffer through it. Economically, and socially, the North is a mess... and I've seen nothing here to suggest that the Republic could change that without crippling our own economy, even if we don't take into account the wide range of divisions within Northern societies, and the hatreds/agendas that continue to exist.

You keep repeating the idea of unification without dealing with the problems associated, simply because nothing else will "work"... and zero realistic estimation that unification would "work"

Mate,yous are proposing a solution that previously ended in civil war (wesrminister had virtually zero oversight 1922 to 1969,was defacto an indepndant state)

Yous will have to excuse me,if i think something new should be tried......ive seen nothing to see it wont work out tbh,and outlined why its doomed to never work under british rule...as they have kept it divided for political interests....indepndance state likely to end in civil war.....while a utd ireland will likely 2 out of 3 governmemts to include unionist representation

Everything else has been tried and failed,it (along with joint dub-london rule) are only options left imo

Renno123

A United Ireland will come about when a minority of unionists agree.
The Westminster election of 2020 in N.I saw nationalists returning more seats than unionists for the first time ever, this was a significant event for both the island of Ireland and GB.

A vote in favour of reunification of 50% +1 is the terms of a poll to pass. Hopefully it will pass in greater numbers.

I would imagine a new Ireland will have a new flag. Perhaps going back to the flag of the kingdom of Ireland? Or a flag with all 4 provinces on it.
A new anthem will also be needed.
English, Gaeilge, and ulster Scots given official language status. Gaeilge and ulster Scots optional subjects in school.
A lower house parliament in Dublin and Upper House Parliament in Belfast.
It will be an interesting time and one which has been significantly accelerated by brexit.

David McWilliams has some great insight on the matter and discusses the financial benifits of a U.I which is worth a read.

catrionanic

As a northerner myself, living in the Republic, you will not appease the hardliners. Of which there are many. However we tend to hear less from the more moderate unionists and there could be a lot to gain from reaching out and supporting them. It may be a more effective tactic to then, in turn, get these more moderate unionists to work on the hardliners. The hardliners will never listen to Dublin. But they may listen to their own.

Capt'n Midnight

Orange Tiny Terror wrote: »

Option 3, Northern Ireland grows up and becomes an independent country and stops screaming like a petulant child for what it wants from Dublin or London.

That didn't work when they had 90% of the heavy industry and most of the banks.

As an independent country GDP would have to increase by a third from the £30Bn just to stand still because of the £10Bn a year from Westminster.

And there's the Govt Jobs and disability payments too.

Would need a lot of weaning before going it alone could even be considered.

Crush On You

Our flag is poxy. Plain Green Flag with a gold harp is much better.

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Catholics likely outnumber protestant already in ni

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2020/12/northern-ireland-census.aspx

Unionism is being let down by its leaders in shouting down any debate as regards a unity poll.....they will be vastly under prepared come what may as regards it,and have no card remaining to play....

they tried so hard to get a hard border to cut nationlists off from the south/strengten partition and when push come to serve,the british government fcuked em over......no amount of lies,will detract from fact,the ni protocol is a result of dup policy surronding brexit

indeed , whatever about the United Ireland potential in the near to medium future and how sympathetic we should be towards unionism

unionism deserves absolutely zero sympathy with respect of the NI protocol