PropQueries wrote: » Interesting development on the WFH front in relation to mortgages. According to the Irish Times: "Banks now want evidence that employees have permission to work permanently from home before approving mortgages on houses beyond a commutable distance from the employee’s workplace. The main advantage of moving out the capital is a lower cost of living. For example, a couple with a joint income of €100,000 could afford to buy a house worth €388,888 based on the Central Bank of Ireland’s lending rules." The bargaining power is quickly moving from the seller to the buyer, especially in Dublin, and it may begin to start showing up in the official data much quicker than many people believe IMO Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/banks-seeking-work-from-home-proof-in-mortgage-applications-1.4515026
Hubertj wrote: » Away from the idiocy and what ifs and back to property this is a lovely looking place. More the setting than the house itself. I don’t see anywhere that indicates if the property has fibre or what broadband options might be. I think that would be a good feature to include.https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/glenfahan-ventry-dingle-kerry/4456110
awec wrote: » I think this place is fairly meh to be honest. I wouldn't pay 750 for it. The actual layout and design of the house is IMO poor. And I'm not sure I'd fancy being that exposed in the middle of winter.
awec wrote: » How do you feel this is power moving from the seller to the buyer? Banks have historically refused mortgages to people looking to buy outside of reasonable commute distance. Now they will give it, but only if the employer provides proof of permanent remote work. Nothing is really changing. If anything, it puts a bit of a dampner on the notion that there's going to be a mass exodus. Sure, you can move down the country so long as your employer is willing to state that you're never going to have to come back to the office.
PropQueries wrote: » If anything it will just show there is a real cost to employees from the hybrid working model. It's now going to cost some employees up to €200k more in housing costs if their employer demands they come in for 2 days a week.Employees will begin to genuinely ask why they need to come in for 2 days a week when can work perfectly well remotely the other three. It may encourage more companies to move to full time WFH more quickly IMO
awec wrote: » Employees can ask all they want. But since you are absolutely convinced that: 1. There'll be no more FDI in Ireland 2. The current MNC jobs are all going to leave 3. Foreign workers are all heading to eastern europe it therefore seems very strange that you also believe that employees who are fortunate enough to have employment in your future vision of Ireland are going to be in a strong position to dictate their working conditions. Why do you think it'll cost 200k more? Surely with the exodus out of cities prices there are about to completely collapse? If anything it could be more expensive to buy the rural gaffs if what you say comes to pass. You didn't answer my question either. How do you feel this news is evidence of power shifting from seller to buyer?
PropQueries wrote: » In relation to the shifting power, the banks are bringing in this requirement as there must be increasing demand for it i.e. buyers are indeed applying for mortgages in areas that are not commutable to their office base. They wouldn't be doing that unless they're fairly sure they will be able to WFH on a near continuous basis going forward. Many potential buyers will no longer tied into buying in e.g. Swords to be near their workplace. That's bargaining power shifting from seller to buyer right there IMO In relation to the rural gaffs becoming more expensive. It won't happen. There's too many of them lying vacant and if there really is a market for such homes, the owners of of these vacant homes will refurbish them and start bringing them to market in short order IMO The free market may very well indeed solve this housing issue very quickly IMO
ExMachina1000 wrote: » Cant see the majority of employers giving a definitive yes to permanent working from home if asked by a staff member who is chasing a mortgage. Why would employers back themselves into a corner like that? Might suit some companies but wfh on a majority scale is a pipe dream. Most will be back in the office when the time comes. As they were pre pandemic. The inevitable "yeah but my company said" or "this multinational said" is not reflective of the majority of sme opinion I would think
PropQueries wrote: » In relation to the shifting power, the banks are bringing in this requirement as there must be increasing demand for it i.e. buyers are indeed applying for mortgages in areas that are not commutable to their office base. They wouldn't be doing that unless they're fairly sure they will be able to WFH on a near continuous basis going forward. Many potential buyers will no longer tied into buying in e.g. Swords to be near their workplace. That's bargaining power shifting from seller to buyer right there IMOIn relation to the rural gaffs becoming more expensive. It won't happen. There's too many of them lying vacant and if there really is a market for such homes, the owners of of these vacant homes will refurbish them and start bringing them to market in short order IMO The free market may very well indeed solve this housing issue very quickly IMO
Marius34 wrote: » As I understand you speak tens of thousands of those homes, that will come up in demand for WFH. Can you share couple of the myhome/daft links that wouldn't have demand now, but will have due to WFH? I'm not sure anyone understands what kind of homes we talking here.
Hubertj wrote: » Apparently there are loads, hundreds of thousands according to some people. A lot in places like Leitrim.
bubblypop wrote: » nothing wrong with leitrim! its two hours from Dublin, if you needed to be in the office for a day. my brother & his girlfriend have been wfh for 12 months, they are renting in Dublin, now looking to buy in the countryside, Im sure there's many more like them.
PropQueries wrote: » I think they bring up Leitrim to knock back the idea. But Dublin is also only a 2 hour drive to Limerick City and a shorter distance from every town in between Limerick City and Dublin. I think people fail to realise remote working has opened up vast swathes of the country as a possible place to live in the not too distant future. How that impacts Dublin prices depends on how long sellers intend to wait for a rebound in demand that may now never happen.
PropQueries wrote: » There are and my theory is that once the owners see there's actually demand for them, they will refurbish them and then bring them to the market. If they believed in 2019 that there was no real demand for their vacant property and it would only achieve c. €100k, even if they did spend €10k on refurbishing it and bringing it up to standard e.g. new windows, doors, heating, fitted kitchen etc., they probably weren't incentivised to do anything with it. Now, with all this WFH talk, they may very well be incentivised to refurbish it (it would take 4 weeks max for the above) and bring it to market for e.g. c. €150k. We're going to see an awful lot of these entering the market in the not too distant future IMO
awec wrote: » If anything it could be more expensive to buy the rural gaffs if what you say comes to pass, we could see a real surge in rural prices.
PropQueries wrote: » In relation to the rural gaffs becoming more expensive. It won't happen. There's too many of them lying vacant and if there really is a market for such homes, the owners of of these vacant homes will refurbish them and start bringing them to market in short order IMO
PropQueries wrote: » If they believed in 2019 that there was no real demand for their vacant property and it would only achieve c. €100k, even if they did spend €10k on refurbishing it and bringing it up to standard e.g. new windows, doors, heating, fitted kitchen etc., they probably weren't incentivised to do anything with it.Now, with all this WFH talk, they may very well be incentivised to refurbish it (it would take 4 weeks max for the above) and bring it to market for e.g. c. €150k
Marius34 wrote: » but it will
PropQueries wrote: » "Bring to market at" There may be some first mover advantage for the first few sellers but as more and more jump on the bandwagon, more and more will start entering the market and prices will fall below what they were even before the refurbishments etc. I think that's economics 101 and just like when Telecom Eireann started to have competitors, prices will plummet. Remote working has now made housing little more than a commodity and home ownership will soon be available to everyone no matter how poor they are IMO There is/will be no difference between living in Swords compared to a similar three bed in e.g. Leitrim and the prices of such houses will be similar. Unfortunately, places like e.g. Dalkey will be competing with similar wealthy areas around the world so they will be severely impacted (price wise) as well IMO
ExMachina1000 wrote: » Will European tax laws be changing to reflect the supposed wfh revolution? People dont need to even reside in the state to work for a company. Could it happen? What percentage of fb, google etc employees are non national? Must be a high percentage. If they could return home but continue to work for those companies it would help our housing supply issues no doubt. Would they face a pay cut though? 100k salary working for an "Irish based" company but paying Romanian or Lithuanian rents and living expenses would be a different standard of living altogether.
awec wrote: » There is a difference between Swords and Leitrim though. Swords is essentially a Dublin suburb and Leitrim is 2 hours away. Very different lifestyles on offer. Or are we now pretending that this doesn’t matter?
Hubertj wrote: » Apologies I’m not saying there is anything wrong with Leitrim, I think 1 of the reports on vacant properties showed there area disproportionate number in the county. Also need to consider the infrastructure where a lot of the vacant properties are depending on stage in life - childcare, schools, broadband - already available or part of NBP etc. Depends on the state of “vacant” as well. Some geniuses seem to think it is cheap to refurbish a house.
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