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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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Mardyke

snotboogie wrote: »

The only reason I am willing to go back and forth on this for so long, I have been arguing the use of PUC for years on here, is because I give a **** and have seen so much wasted potential.

PUC was a phenomenonaly bad project, the least effective stadium build anywhere in the world this century, but it is done and we should still make the most of what we have. People will only entertain getting more use out of it when it is pointed out just how unbelievably underused it is (ie the most underused stadium in use in the world in 2019) otherwise you get lazy excuses as to why no other sports should be courted.

Well said and you're spot on in everything you're saying (amazing considering you're a non sports person!! )

ofcork

Move on i believe there is planning for a new housing development on ballyhooly road not sure where exactly.

namloc1980

snotboogie wrote: »

The only reason I am willing to go back and forth on this for so long, I have been arguing the use of PUC for years on here, is because I give a **** and have seen so much wasted potential.

PUC was a phenomenonaly bad project, the least effective stadium build anywhere in the world this century, but it is done and we should still make the most of what we have. People will only entertain getting more use out of it when it is pointed out just how unbelievably underused it is (ie the most underused stadium in use in the world in 2019) otherwise you get lazy excuses as to why no other sports should be courted.

It's been done to death but what other sports do you envisage there? Munster have a home stadium in Limerick, they don't need it. They use Musgrave Park for smaller Pro 16 games. At most a big European game maybe once or twice a year could be held there, maybe.

Cork City are a Division 1 team. And even when they were winning the league and cups they still weren't packing out Turners Cross every week with holds about 6,500. The pitch in PUC is also enormous which would lead to a poor matchday experience for soccer and rugby. There are no other pro sports teams in Cork.

[Deleted User]

I never found the experience lacking in Croker, for rugby.

Only rugby matches there would be Champions Cup semi finals. Really annoying having Lansdowne as Munster's home ground

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

I never found the experience lacking in Croker, for rugby.

Only rugby matches there would be Champions Cup semi finals. Really annoying having Lansdowne as Munster's home ground

Let's be honest here now it's not the greatest. Loads of seats in the main stand behind the end line. And at least 20m from the front row to the sideline. Not a complete disaster but far far from ideal stadium setup, not as bad as those stadiums with God awful running tracks around them, but not great.

Rugby_Croke_Park-41.jpg?ext=.jpg

[Deleted User]

Vast majority of people are so far back they never experience touch line, really.

Also, it's a normal layout globally when you get stadia with athletics tracks

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Vast majority of people are so far back they never experience touch line, really.

Also, it's a normal layout globally when you get stadia with athletics tracks

Which are dreadful stadiums for fan experience. Not sure we should be holding up such stadiums as something to emulate.

[Deleted User]

namloc1980 wrote: »

Which are dreadful stadiums for fan experience. Not sure we should be holding up such stadiums as something to emulate.

Again, there was no issue with atmosphere and event there during the opening 6 nations games

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, there was no issue with atmosphere and event there during the opening 6 nations games

Personally I prefer the action to be closer to the stands, atmosphere even better. Either way out doesn't matter, the question is what other sports would be able to play there? Munster don't need it except for the rare occasion of a home European semi final which is far from guaranteed any season. Cork City certainly don't need a large stadium. Who else is there in Cork?

Mardyke

namloc1980 wrote: »

Personally I prefer the action to be closer to the stands, atmosphere even better. Either way out doesn't matter, the question is what other sports would be able to play there? Munster don't need it except for the rare occasion of a home European semi final which is far from guaranteed any season. Cork City certainly don't need a large stadium. Who else is there in Cork?

For Munster and Cork City it'll only ever be a random once off European game. Other than that both teams get (at best) between 5,000 and 10,000.

Cork Footballers get about 5,000 for league games. The Hurlers might get 10,000?

And then you've the odd Munster Final type game that might get 30,000.

Nothing will convince me that a Leicester City style stadium would not have been better.

namloc1980

Mardyke wrote: »

For Munster and Cork City it'll only ever be a random once off European game. Other than that both teams get (at best) between 5,000 and 10,000.

Cork Footballers get about 5,000 for league games. The Hurlers might get 10,000?

And then you've the odd Munster Final type game that might get 30,000.

Nothing will convince me that a Leicester City style stadium would not have been better.

The terraces in PUC bring up the capacity, naturally. Seated capacity is around 22,000. If the terraces were seated it'd be around 32,000, almost bang on the King Power Stadium. Now you can argue about whether terraces are good or bad but that's why the capacity is higher in PUC - half of it is terracing.

Shedite27

snotboogie wrote: »

The only reason I am willing to go back and forth on this for so long, I have been arguing the use of PUC for years on here, is because I give a **** and have seen so much wasted potential.

PUC was a phenomenonaly bad project, the least effective stadium build anywhere in the world this century, but it is done and we should still make the most of what we have. People will only entertain getting more use out of it when it is pointed out just how unbelievably underused it is (ie the most underused stadium in use in the world in 2019) otherwise you get lazy excuses as to why no other sports should be courted.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a sports person and that stadium far exceeds requirements. (fairly random comment to lob at someone)

It was a total vanity piece, of a build.

Can I ask what type of stadium ye'd like to have seen? Bearing in mind that it has to have the dimensions of a GAA pitch? How many seats and terrace would you think is reasonable?

Mardyke

namloc1980 wrote: »

The terraces in PUC bring up the capacity, naturally. Seated capacity is around 22,000. If the terraces were seated it'd be around 32,000, almost bang on the King Power Stadium. Now you can argue about whether terraces are good or bad but that's why the capacity is higher in PUC - half of it is terracing.

But terraces open to the elements without any comfort, are useless for 95% of events, especially in Cork where it tends to rain a bit!

namloc1980

Mardyke wrote: »

But terraces open to the elements without any comfort, are useless for 95% of events, especially in Cork where it tends to rain a bit!

95% of events? I've been in PUC a fair few times and the number of times it's rained was probably in the 10%-20% range. Certainly not 95%. That sounds a bit like Cork is too hilly and too wet for cycling nonsense to be honest.

Anyway let's pretend and say the terraces are converted to seats in the morning and covered. What events do you see suddenly happening in PUC?

Shedite27

Mardyke wrote: »

But terraces open to the elements without any comfort, are useless for 95% of events, especially in Cork where it tends to rain a bit!

I'm sorry but terraces are a must for me at any stadium. Every contry that removed them for safety reasons, the fans have begged them to be put back in, a lot have a safe standing option now. We'd have been stupid to not have them both from an enjoyment perpective and a cost perspective.

There's plenty of seats for those that want them.

Hibernicis

Seriously bored by all this gaa indulgent PUC discussion. Apart from the potential land grab, who cares. The gaa once again trumped the public good to satiate its own desire for supremacy.

In other Real CORK news, is this real or imaginary ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taoiseach-announces-405m-regeneration-plan-for-cork-1.4514988?mode=amp

namloc1980

Hibernicis wrote: »

Seriously bored by all this gaa indulgent PUC discussion. Apart from the potential land grab, who cares. The gaa once again trumped the public good to satiate its own desire for supremacy.

In other Real CORK news, is this real or imaginary ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taoiseach-announces-405m-regeneration-plan-for-cork-1.4514988?mode=amp

Like most things, I'll believe when I see it.

Rebelbrowser

Apogee wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EoinBearla/status/1372865810822279168

RTE have completely ignored this story. Had reporters there but only showing the Covid questions asked of MM

MrDerp

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

RTE have completely ignored this story. Had reporters there but only showing the Covid questions asked of MM

Zuh?

I literally first heard this news on the six-one this evening. You know, their flagship and widest reaching newscast?

Rebelbrowser

MrDerp wrote: »

Zuh?

I literally first heard this news on the six-one this evening. You know, their flagship and widest reaching newscast?

Didn’t see it on 9pm news (but wonder now if I missed it) and it hasn't been on their website all day as far as I could see. On the 1pm radio 1 news they interviewed their reporter in Cork from the press conference but only asked her about Covid. But if was on 6pm news I stand corrected on that.

ongarboy

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Didn’t see it on 9pm news (but wonder now if I missed it) and it hasn't been on their website all day as far as I could see. On the 1pm radio 1 news they interviewed their reporter in Cork from the press conference but only asked her about Covid. But if was on 6pm news I stand corrected on that.

I saw it on Six One too. As its an hour long newscast, it will often have extra clips not included on the shorter 9 bulletin. What they plan to do for Cork Docklands sounds amazing and have set a timeline of 15 years. I just hope it doesn't become like the Opera development in Limerick where it's launched amid much fanfare but 10 years later, no physical evidence of any development.

RTE news : Over €400m funding for Cork regeneration projects

http://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0319/1204932-cork-funding/

Clip included in this article if you scroll down halfway.

questionmark?

It would be great if they did actually follow through on this. Combined with CMATS(if that happens) it would make Cork a fantastic place to live and do business. Here's hoping.

whisky_galore

Hibernicis wrote: »

Seriously bored by all this gaa indulgent PUC discussion. Apart from the potential land grab, who cares. The gaa once again trumped the public good to satiate its own desire for supremacy.

In other Real CORK news, is this real or imaginary ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taoiseach-announces-405m-regeneration-plan-for-cork-1.4514988?mode=amp

Well said, was getting tired of sports nerding.

Inspirational pointing at things pic.
I'd be surprised if its anything other than an arty photo op.

millb

Link below is to an Engineers presentation from 2009. Focus is on the Docklands area and Eastern Gateway Bridge. You can see lots of design work back then -of course we had the financial crisis since then.

http://www.engineersirelandcork.ie/downloads/S_Coghlan_pres_to_EI_270109.pdf

These projects and vision take 6+ years concept discussion and strategy
10+ years planning and a few more years detailed design / procurement / funding and then
6+ years build

(multiply by x - if folks go to court).

TheChizler

What was the last national announcement of funding for Cork? I remember they included the budgets of lots of projects that were already planned or had funding to inflate the headline figure, I wonder if the same thing is happening here.

pwurple

I’ll believe it when I see it. This scheme has been mooted, planned, designed, funded, defunded, funded etc etc for what feels like my entire lifetime.

It is very effective at stopping every other type of smaller project in its tracks.

snotboogie

pwurple wrote: »

I’ll believe it when I see it. This scheme has been mooted, planned, designed, funded, defunded, funded etc etc for what feels like my entire lifetime.

It is very effective at stopping every other type of smaller project in its tracks.

The plans are not very specific but isn't this funding for a lot of small projects? The biggest single cost would be the Eastern Gateway Bridge which would still be under 100 million. A couple like the Marina Park are actually ongoing, so I don't think this is stopping anything

cantalach

snotboogie wrote: »

The plans are not very specific but isn't this funding for a lot of small projects? The biggest single cost would be the Eastern Gateway Bridge which would still be under 100 million. A couple like the Marina Park are actually ongoing, so I don't think this is stopping anything

The 2009 report estimated the bridge would cost about €80M so I’m thinking that would be at least €100M today. It’s also apparently going to be necessary to raise the level of most of the transport corridors throughout the Docklands to avoid flooding. That’s going to be expensive, particularly as it will require CPOs in a few places to allow for widening and realignment. A big chunk is going on the library too. You wouldn’t be long using up €350M.

snotboogie

cantalach wrote: »

The 2009 report estimated the bridge would cost about €80M so I’m thinking that would be at least €100M today. It’s also apparently going to be necessary to raise the level of most of the transport corridors throughout the Docklands to avoid flooding. That’s going to be expensive, particularly as it will require CPOs in a few places to allow for widening and realignment. A big chunk is going on the library too. You wouldn’t be long using up €350M.

Oh ya for sure, I think that 2009 report had the overall cost for the docklands improvements at something like 700 million. It seems like there is 350 million specifically for the docklands here. So lots to spend the money on. I just don't think this is a pie in the sky project blocking funding for necessary boring upgrades. The spend here seems pretty sensible. As others have pointed out, the timeline for implementation is the worry.

0lddog

namloc1980 wrote: »

Library usage is very high among young people. Over 17 million library visits in the year prior to Covid. A library would never be a white elephant. They are brilliant civic and educational facilities.

+1
Was not unusual to find no spaces available in libraries around Dubland during school term time ( pre COVID of course )

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Serious question - Do young people still use libraries (outside of college ones)?

I'm not saying that this project shouldn't got ahead as it's good to have something in the city centre that isn't just another shop, pub or restaurant. I can just imagine a scenario where something like this can become a white elephant in years to come.

When we get derestricted visit a few...they have much more than a few ol' books to offer