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Random EV thoughts.....

Old diesel

The main motors forum has the motors chat thread for the little things one would like to say but might not justify a thread.

Thought it might be an idea for here re hybrids and EV stuff.....

To kick off - i wonder if a new measurement for EVs might be assuming a start trip at 100 percent......

A how much range do you get with a 15 minute stop.

With a 350 kw charging a Porsche Tayman might do very well with getting on for 400 miles...

A Leaf 62 not so good.

Obviously where a car can do more then 50 kw charging we would need both a 50 kw and a whatever the cars top rate is figure*.

*IF chargers are available

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slave1

DrPhilG wrote: »

What speed does a Model S P90 get on the fast AC side of a triple head?

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

If it's got the dual AC chargers (as most seem to), it should get 22kW max from AC.

Not too shabby if waiting for the CCS/CHAdeMO to become free..

Don't ask me to explain why but my dual charger takes 23kW, pretty sure I've seen others post the same also, don't know if this is the car overstating or chargepoint understating

slave1

DrPhilG wrote: »

...
It's up north by the way, hence overstay fees not an issue.

No AC overstay fees here either, they are just for DC chargers

DrPhilG

slave1 wrote: »

No AC overstay fees here either, they are just for DC chargers

It's the fast AC port of a triple head rapid charger though.

Don't those attract an overstay fee in ROI too? Since it is technically capable of 43kw?

slave1

Good one ..
eCars say

Note: To ensure a charge point is available for the next user, an overstay fee of €4.60 will apply for charging sessions longer than 45 minutes on ESB fast chargers.

so it's the charger that determines and not whether AC or DC.
That means no overstay fee on the High Power units

Well now I know

innrain

slave1 wrote: »

Good one ..
eCars say
Note: To ensure a charge point is available for the next user, an overstay fee of €4.60 will apply for charging sessions longer than 45 minutes on ESB fast chargers.
so it's the charger that determines and not whether AC or DC.
That means no overstay fee on the High Power units

Well now I know

Ecars says:
7. Overstay Fees
7.1 In order to ensure efficient use of the Public Charging Network, and to discourage inappropriate use of Fast Charge Points and High Power Charge Points, an overstay fee may be applicable. This is specified in the Price Plan Terms and Conditions, and will be included in the over-all cost to charge.

https://esb.ie/ecars/price-plans/terms-of-service

ELM327

The overstay for HPC is listed on the app

Kramer

slave1 wrote: »

Don't ask me to explain why but my dual charger takes 23kW, pretty sure I've seen others post the same also, don't know if this is the car overstating or chargepoint understating

Cars draw amps & the total power is amps x voltage.
Standard voltage is 230v, +/- 10%.

32a x 230v = 7.4kW
48a x 230v = 11kW (3 phase, 3x 16a).

Where the grid/supply voltage is high, say 250v,
32a x 250v = 8kW.
48a x 250v = 12kW.

A dual charger Model S could pull 96a so exceed 23kW with a high grid voltage.

I've seen our Model 3 reach 12kW (48a x 253v).

ELM327

Same here, my S has only single charger (so max "11kW" 3ph) and I routinely see 12kW at work before covid, as the voltage there was over 250.

Working it out, the car rounds up, so if you have 11.5kW it displays as 12kW

the_amazing_raisin

Turns out there's been a company in France making solid state batteries for several years, and they're in use in electric buses

https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/03/actually-we-are-the-pioneer-of-solid-state-battery/

It looks like the cells are solid state but they still need to heat the battery to 50-80C to get it up to operating temp. However no cooling system required, which would remove one of the big costs in an EV

Looks like they're hoping to have a battery operating at 20C in production by 2026, hopefully it works out well for them, and for future EV owners

slave1

innrain wrote: »

Ecars says:
7. Overstay Fees
7.1 In order to ensure efficient use of the Public Charging Network, and to discourage inappropriate use of Fast Charge Points and High Power Charge Points, an overstay fee may be applicable. This is specified in the Price Plan Terms and Conditions, and will be included in the over-all cost to charge.

https://esb.ie/ecars/price-plans/terms-of-service

They need to sort out their website so because they list the prices for Standard, Fast and High Power on this page and at the bottom clearly states

"To ensure a charge point is available for the next user, an overstay fee of €4.60 will apply for charging sessions longer than 45 minutes on ESB fast chargers."

Anyhow, not trying to be an arse, first place I looked on their website states overstay fee for just Fast Chargers, other parts of website say the High Power ones are included too so fair enough, good to know.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Same here, my S has only single charger (so max "11kW" 3ph) and I routinely see 12kW at work before covid, as the voltage there was over 250.

Working it out, the car rounds up, so if you have 11.5kW it displays as 12kW

Yep. All those 22kW AC charge points in Ireland and the Zoes and Teslas with dual charger that can charge at 22kW from them?

That's actually 23kW in most cases. Typically 240V * 3 phases * 32A = 23kW

KCross

This isnt really EV related but based on the eBike popularity there might be some interest...

I have a few small Li-ion packs that are used in a robot mower which I dont need. I'd be willing to send them to someone (no warranty of any kind) if they want to play around with them.

I have 4 packs in total.

2 x 18V/2.3Ah/57.6Wh <-- These are used but still working and I'd estimate down to somewhere around 70% capacity but I have not exactly measured it. Just based on how long they now last in the robot compared to new

I have another 2...

2 x 18V/5.2Ah/93.6Wh. <-- These are brand new but dont work in my mower. I got a refund but got to keep them. I cant say for sure if they are faulty or just not compatible. I have no interest in selling them and potentially dealing with an unhappy purchaser and since they are standing me zero I'm happy to give them away and have someone get value out of them if they work.

They all look like this
https://batteryempire.co.uk/husqvarna/2027-2663505-green-cell-battery-5ah-18v-580-68-33-01-for-husqvarna-automower-320-330x-430.html

PM me if you want them and we can discuss postage/collection etc.

unkel

Fair play to you. They look like a 5S2P setup of 18650 lithium ion cells with a built in BMS. Combine two identical ones of them in series and you should have a decent enough albeit short range battery pack for a 36V eBike!

AndyBoBandy

Opinions on this Leaf please?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-30kw-cold-pk-high-spec/27344485?campaign=6

My mam is driving a 2012 Yaris, and it's a piece of crap, and she wants to go up a few more years at some stage this year, and I'd love to get her into an EV.

99% of her driving would be short hops in and around Dublin city/suburbs.... with possibly the occasional overnight trip to Waterford here and there (most likely stopping in Kilcullen for top ups).

Screen shows 142km range on what looks like a full charge - how does this stack up on a 30kW Leaf?
Has the cold pack, which is handy.
Would it be a 3.3kW onboard charger, or 7kW (wouldn't really matter too much anyway).
Seems within budget...

any advice?

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Opinions on this Leaf please?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-30kw-cold-pk-high-spec/27344485?campaign=6

My mam is driving a 2012 Yaris, and it's a piece of crap, and she wants to go up a few more years at some stage this year, and I'd love to get her into an EV.

99% of her driving would be short hops in and around Dublin city/suburbs.... with possibly the occasional overnight trip to Waterford here and there (most likely stopping in Kilcullen for top ups).

Screen shows 142km range on what looks like a full charge - how does this stack up on a 30kW Leaf?
Has the cold pack, which is handy.
Would it be a 3.3kW onboard charger, or 7kW (wouldn't really matter too much anyway).
Seems within budget...

any advice?

The GOM can be a bit unreliable measure of battery health in the Leaf, it's based on consumption so if the car has been driven gently a lot it'll be somewhat optimistic

My Leaf24 was claiming 140km until I ran the battery close to empty and it was forced to recalibrate, now it gives a more realistic 125km

142km for a Leaf30 seems a tad low unless it's seen a lot of motorway driving, I'd check if this one has the BMS update which underrated the battery health. Leafspy won't give you the correct SOH if it hasn't been updated AFAIK

Other than that it seem reasonable

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Opinions on this Leaf please?

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-30kw-cold-pk-high-spec/27344485?campaign=6

My mam is driving a 2012 Yaris, and it's a piece of crap, and she wants to go up a few more years at some stage this year, and I'd love to get her into an EV.

99% of her driving would be short hops in and around Dublin city/suburbs.... with possibly the occasional overnight trip to Waterford here and there (most likely stopping in Kilcullen for top ups).

Screen shows 142km range on what looks like a full charge - how does this stack up on a 30kW Leaf?
Has the cold pack, which is handy.
Would it be a 3.3kW onboard charger, or 7kW (wouldn't really matter too much anyway).
Seems within budget...

any advice?

I've a 162 L30, realistic Winter range is around 135'ish (depending on how you drive of course), Summer around 160kms

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Opinions on this Leaf please?

Screen shows 142km range on what looks like a full charge - how does this stack up on a 30kW Leaf?
Has the cold pack, which is handy.
Would it be a 3.3kW onboard charger, or 7kW (wouldn't really matter too much anyway).
Seems within budget...

any advice?

I wouldnt trust that its a 30kWh Leaf until you get proof of it.

Two additional pics from the dealer would help too..

- A pic of the plate on the drivers side pillar when you open the door.... it shows the weight of the car.... that will tell you whether its a 30kWh or not.

- A pic of the dash when it is showing the charge time. You have to press the botton to the right of the steering wheel and cycle through the menus until it shows the charge time.... if it shows a 6.6kW charge time then it has the faster charging.

Other than that it looks like a clean car, reasonable asking price (assuming its an L30) that you negotiate down from.

the_amazing_raisin

KCross wrote: »

I wouldnt trust that its a 30kWh Leaf until you get proof of it.

Two additional pics from the dealer would help too..

- A pic of the plate on the drivers side pillar when you open the door.... it shows the weight of the car.... that will tell you whether its a 30kWh or not.

- A pic of the dash when it is showing the charge time. You have to press the botton to the right of the steering wheel and cycle through the menus until it shows the charge time.... if it shows a 6.6kW charge time then it has the faster charging.

Other than that it looks like a clean car, reasonable asking price (assuming its an L30) that you negotiate down from.

Probably easiest to just ask for the VIN or registration number, could look it up on cartell or something similar?

Black_Knight

Bjorn got the covid... But eC4 looks on his agenda in a few weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsSEBlaiaJk

innrain

https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2021/ecotricity-and-gridserve-to-power-the-electric-highway
Gridserve bought 25% of Ecotricity. They are going to replace 300 old chargers "by this summer" while also deploying HPCs.

the_amazing_raisin

innrain wrote: »

https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2021/ecotricity-and-gridserve-to-power-the-electric-highway
Gridserve bought 25% of Ecotricity. They are going to replace 300 old chargers "by this summer" while also deploying HPCs.

Great, can they buy ESB while they're at

KCross

innrain wrote: »

https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-news/2021/ecotricity-and-gridserve-to-power-the-electric-highway
Gridserve bought 25% of Ecotricity. They are going to replace 300 old chargers "by this summer" while also deploying HPCs.

Gridserve is the dream!

Just to remind people what their vision looks like...

UK folks have been complaining about Ecotricity now for years as their chargers were a decade old, single points of failure in alot of cases and they had a stranglehold on the MSA's in the UK... I'd say they got a nice chunk of money off Gridserve to open up that monopoly they had!

Havent watched this one yet...

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

Gridserve is the dream!

Just to remind people what their vision looks like...

UK folks have been complaining about Ecotricity now for years as their chargers were a decade old, single points of failure in alot of cases and they had a stranglehold on the MSA's in the UK... I'd say they got a nice chunk of money off Gridserve to open up that monopoly they had!

Havent watched this one yet...

Don't get the NI folks all excited. Britain's motorways, not the UK. NI is doomed for another while longer.

JohnC.

Am I reading that right? 6 to 12 HPC through the whole of GB? And it says "pumps" rather than hubs. Doesn't sound that great.

innrain

JohnC. wrote: »

Am I reading that right? 6 to 12 HPC through the whole of GB? And it says "pumps" rather than hubs. Doesn't sound that great.

Ecotricity ranked last (16) in a top of UK charging providers.
https://www.zap-map.com/revealed-uks-top-ranking-electric-vehicle-networks/
They have to adress this before going to invest into HPC.
This is showing us how a small market we are, with just 4 players.

Silent Running

KCross wrote: »

Gridserve is the dream!

Just to remind people what their vision looks like...

UK folks have been complaining about Ecotricity now for years as their chargers were a decade old, single points of failure in alot of cases and they had a stranglehold on the MSA's in the UK... I'd say they got a nice chunk of money off Gridserve to open up that monopoly they had!

Havent watched this one yet...

With a lot of time spent at Ecotricity chargers under my belt. This is music to my ears.

the_amazing_raisin

Volkswagen presented it Tesla inspired BatteryPower Day

https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/05/vw-aims-for-70-ev-sales-in-europe-by-2030/

There's a few key points

VW are developing a 'standard' battery cell which can handle different chemistrys and will be manufactured by different providers. Aim is to get cost down by 50%

The new cell will be a cell-to-pack design without the need for modules

Cheaper EVs will use LFP cells, performance cars from Porsche & Audi will use cells bought in from other providers

Aiming for 240GWh battery production by 2030 from 6 European plants. Some of these will be operated by VW, others by external manufactuers such as Northvolt

Some quick math on the above gives 4 million EVs per year by 2030, assuming 60kWh per vehicle. So the target of 70% pure EV sales in Europe seems realistic

VW is looking to build 18,000 150kW+ chargers throughout Europe by partnering with local energy companies (BP, Iberdola & Enel were mentioned). They're also keeping their stake in Ionity

MEB cars will support bidirectional power from 2022, although there's no mention of whether the inverter will be in car or external. A V2G wallbox is mentioned which could indicate an external inverter

Overall, there's a lot of big numbers coming from VW. Hopefully they can deliver on their promises

MJohnston

It’ll be great to have the Germans on the case of battery technology! If nothing else, it provides a diversity of companies driving the technology forward, rather than just relying on a certain now-monarchical US-centric company.

AndyBoBandy

MJohnston wrote: »

It’ll be great to have the Germans on the case of battery technology! If nothing else, it provides a diversity of companies driving the technology forward, rather than just relying on a certain now-monarchical US-centric company.

at least there'll be someone doing it with a sense of humour...

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

It’ll be great to have the Germans on the case of battery technology! If nothing else, it provides a diversity of companies driving the technology forward, rather than just relying on a certain now-monarchical US-centric company.

The more the merrier, and I like that they've built in battery recycling from the start with 95% of the pack being recovered