Cycling Mikey

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe instead of watching videos, interviewing hedge lurkers and locating drivers, I would be out catching twice as many of these things myself - Police Officer Met.

Or maybe I would be sitting on my couch, on my laptop and my phone, doing absolutely nothing to improve safety on the roads while pedantically nitpicking about the tone or hairstyle of those who do actually improve safety on the roads?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Or maybe I would be sitting on my couch, on my laptop and my phone, doing absolutely nothing to improve safety on the roads while pedantically nitpicking about the tone or hairstyle of those who do actually improve safety on the roads?

Or nitpicking those that are really just having a discussion?

Or nitpicking the nitpickers that are nitpicking those that are really just having a discussion.

And it is that btw, a discussion on road safety. You think Mikey can do no wrong and he is a living superhero. But it seems others think he could do better by not being an arse.

Now, looking at the pushback here, do you not think there may be some merit in that? And that, maybe, if this is the perception that fellow cyclists have (that really do understand the dangers that come with being more vulnerable to crap driving) then there is a chance that other road users will think similarly and may even take umbrage to having someone telling them how to behave. Especially when they have just been embarrassed or caught out.

CramCycle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are there any examples where reprimanding motorists had a positive effect on their driving behaviour?

From personal experience, I have found you get a more positive response from a positive engagement although that is not always possible. I tend to find, and easier said than done, a nice tone, and a white lie of "you may not have realised but that gave me a bit of a scare, I know it wasn't intentional but you could frighten/scare/put off balance someone else".

Anecdotal I know, and undoubtedly doesn't work all the time but I get the impression that there is a slim hope the driver goes away from it thinking, jaysus, never even copped that, glad they told me. As opposed to, "that fuppin fupper, giving me a bollicking over something I am not even sure i done wrong, all those fuppers are the same".

Should it be that way, no, is my experience that it is, yes. Do I have proof? Not even close, but from the way I react to people who are immediately aggressive towards me, even passively so, I suspect that there is some hope as opposed to no hope.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VReU7EgfPLc

CramCycle wrote: »

From personal experience, I have found you get a more positive response from a positive engagement although that is not always possible. I tend to find, and easier said than done, a nice tone, and a white lie of "you may not have realised but that gave me a bit of a scare, I know it wasn't intentional but you could frighten/scare/put off balance someone else".

Anecdotal I know, and undoubtedly doesn't work all the time but I get the impression that there is a slim hope the driver goes away from it thinking, jaysus, never even copped that, glad they told me. As opposed to, "that fuppin fupper, giving me a bollicking over something I am not even sure i done wrong, all those fuppers are the same".

Should it be that way, no, is my experience that it is, yes. Do I have proof? Not even close, but from the way I react to people who are immediately aggressive towards me, even passively so, I suspect that there is some hope as opposed to no hope.

Definitely more carrot than stick approach works for me.

I cycle like I drive in a lot if cases. Thank the kind gestures and read the road well ahead and be part of the traffic, including all responsibilities that go with it.

In younger angrier days it was more stress and more bull**** and fewer results.

For example: A lot if the time people make mistakes. The classic SMIDSY moves. Gesticulating and getting in people's faces does little except causes an argument (although of course sometimes it's absolutely rage inducing***). Pointing out what just happened generally gets an apology and an acknowledgement of mistake.

This doesn't exactly replicate Mikey but to me his attitude is closer to the former, even although he tries hard to make damn sure it looks like the latter.

***In these cases it's still the carrot approach, just modified a bit:

Large bottle small glass

Almost by definition if you approach anyone the way these cyclist do you are not going to be engaging with their rational brain and most will end up in a shouting match or worse.

In over 23 years and over a 1M km driving I've had one encounter with another driver which might have got nasty. As a cyclist since 2006 to 2017 i had five which were very close to a proper fight. In 4 of those I was the "victim" but reacted with the international symbols for "WTF are you at you stupid (unt" and swearing which then lead to an escalation. (4 of the 5 have been within 10km of Carriagline incidentally:))

I don't react anymore, while not the timid type I just don't think it's near worth it. It's a game if you keep playing the wrong guy or guys are going to get out of the car.

As for the poster riding on Carr's Hill would Maryborough hill, Grange road or even Rafeen to Rochestown and Greenway not be better options? Given the traffic volumes the climbing lanes on both sides narrowing to single carriageway with no hard shoulder it's hard to think of a more hateful road to cycle

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are there any examples where reprimanding motorists had a positive effect on their driving behaviour?

I'm sure there are. Speaking for myself, I now don't go over the speed limit on the motorway between Michelstown and Cahir as I was once caught speeding there. That doesn't mean i've stopped breaking the speed limit completely.

Just because Mikey has caught people breaking a law doesn't mean that they won't break the law elsewhere.

Your faith in the Church of Mickey is a bit idealist. That's not how the real world works.

Church of Mickey

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

As for the poster riding on Carr's Hill would Maryborough hill, Grange road or even Rafeen to Rochestown and Greenway not be better options? Given the traffic volumes the climbing lanes on both sides narrowing to single carriageway with no hard shoulder it's hard to think of a more hateful road to cycle

Couldn't agree more. The image of entitled cyclist comes to mind if cyclists choose to cycle this road, there are other options.

There's videos of RTBI cycling on the south ring road.... Natural selection and all that.

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. The image of entitled cyclist comes to mind if cyclists choose to cycle this road, there are other options.

There's videos of RTBI cycling on the south ring road.... Natural selection and all that.

Oh no! Thou shall not permit ones forelock to be tugged! I Shall cycle where I damn well please (even if it doesn't please me, makes for an uncomfortable commute and selfishly increases the chance of my family being left with a massive hole).

CramCycle

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. The image of entitled cyclist comes to mind if cyclists choose to cycle this road, there are other options.

There's videos of RTBI cycling on the south ring road.... Natural selection and all that.

I would disagree on this point though, forgetting any opinions about youtubers. If the road is a legitimate road to cycle or walk on, it should either be safe to do so or something should be done to improve it. There is a reason that cycling is banned on motorways, because of speeds, drift and a range of factors, nothing bar turning it into an N road with average speed cameras, will make it safe. It reminds me of when I was younger, my mother hated me cycling at night as there were so many drunk drivers. The solution, to stop me cycling at night, is not a solution, that was simply facilitating the problem. If drivers are driving dangerously there, then the gardai should be out there enforcing the rules till it becomes second nature, or other mitigation measures should be in place.

CramCycle wrote: »

I would disagree on this point though, forgetting any opinions about youtubers. If the road is a legitimate road to cycle or walk on, it should either be safe to do so or something should be done to improve it. There is a reason that cycling is banned on motorways, because of speeds, drift and a range of factors, nothing bar turning it into an N road with average speed cameras, will make it safe. It reminds me of when I was younger, my mother hated me cycling at night as there were so many drunk drivers. The solution, to stop me cycling at night, is not a solution, that was simply facilitating the problem. If drivers are driving dangerously there, then the gardai should be out there enforcing the rules till it becomes second nature, or other mitigation measures should be in place.

That is true - and we should campaign more for safety - but if there are two near parallel roads (as seems to be the case in Cork - I don't know the area) - wouldn't you just chose the quieter road? Or the more pleasant cycle?

CramCycle

km991148 wrote: »

That is true - and we should campaign more for safety - but if there are two near parallel roads (as seems to be the case in Cork - I don't know the area) - wouldn't you just chose the quieter road? Or the more pleasant cycle?

There are so many nuisances for every commuter, it is hard to know. RTBI as an example appears to be commuting, maybe this is significantly shorter, I have heard another poster saying the other road isn't much better. I have two near parallel roads to choose on my commute, the N11 which has loads of near misses but all at lower speed and easier to avoid, or the Enniskerry road which has very few near misses but when they happen, they are at speed and will almost certainly result in death if contact is made. Which is better, hard to know, we are all very good at making dynamic risk assessments on a daily basis without even noticing it, how reasonable they are on deeper analysis is questionable. It's quite possible that this might be the best road for him due to directness, local knowledge, experience etc.

CramCycle wrote: »

There are so many nuisances for every commuter, it is hard to know. RTBI as an example appears to be commuting, maybe this is significantly shorter, I have heard another poster saying the other road isn't much better. I have two near parallel roads to choose on my commute, the N11 which has loads of near misses but all at lower speed and easier to avoid, or the Enniskerry road which has very few near misses but when they happen, they are at speed and will almost certainly result in death if contact is made. Which is better, hard to know, we are all very good at making dynamic risk assessments on a daily basis without even noticing it, how reasonable they are on deeper analysis is questionable. It's quite possible that this might be the best road for him due to directness, local knowledge, experience etc.

yeah true actually - its all very subjective.. the subjectivity is the very thing causing contention on this very thread..!

CramCycle wrote: »

I would disagree on this point though, forgetting any opinions about youtubers. If the road is a legitimate road to cycle or walk on, it should either be safe to do so or something should be done to improve it. There is a reason that cycling is banned on motorways, because of speeds, drift and a range of factors, nothing bar turning it into an N road with average speed cameras, will make it safe. It reminds me of when I was younger, my mother hated me cycling at night as there were so many drunk drivers. The solution, to stop me cycling at night, is not a solution, that was simply facilitating the problem. If drivers are driving dangerously there, then the gardai should be out there enforcing the rules till it becomes second nature, or other mitigation measures should be in place.

I'll have to respectively disagree with you on this one and I say this as a person who has actively campaigned for better cycling infrastructure.
This road is one of the busiest arteries in Cork, thousands use it daily and it is over max capacity. I used to use it quite regularly myself to commute to Ringaskiddy. It's a difficult road to drive on, never mind cycle.
One thing that really struck me when I used to commute on it was the conversation that other motorists were having in the staff canteen in Ringaskiddy. We'll just say it was pretty unsavory and eye opener to the minds of motorists. It has really enforced in my head that this road is not safe to cycle on.
There are plans to upgrade the road which are very welcome and hopefully with these plans, better cycling infrastructure will be in place.
People are very entitled to cycle on this road and fair play to them, i'm not going to stop them. I do think it is quite silly do when there are other options which take similar lengths of time to get to Cork city centre. You really are taking your life in your hands on this road.

gctest50

From the clowns instagram :

Bit odd

timmyjimmy wrote: »

I'm sure there are.

So you would agree that, in general, given the number of disqualifications, points and fines issued as a result of his reports, this will result in some degree of safer driving from some of the drivers involved?

gctest50 wrote: »

From the clowns instagram :

Bit odd

km991148 wrote: »

That is true - and we should campaign more for safety - but if there are two near parallel roads (as seems to be the case in Cork - I don't know the area) - wouldn't you just chose the quieter road? Or the more pleasant cycle?

Why don't we expect drivers to just choose the other route?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why don't we expect drivers to just choose the other route?

Take the chip off..

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you would agree that, in general, given the number of disqualifications, points and fines issued as a result of his reports, this will result in some degree of safer driving from some of the drivers involved?

Some degree of safer drivers maybe but they're probably cancelled out by his antagonistic behaviour and riling up of motorists. Unquantifiable really.

Maybe put a thread up in the motorist thread and see how ya fair out? I reckon you'll get the same reception as here, even worse.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Careful dude, you are one post away from dragging up Hitler

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Careful dude, you are one post away from dragging up Hitler

What's your problem?

16764841001_3895523351001_TopGear8-Hitler-WebTeam-H264-Widescreen-1920x1080-vs.jpg

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why don't we expect drivers to just choose the other route?

Because realism and compromise are more constructive in the efforts to improve road safety for cyclists and pedestrians than whataboutery and stubbornness. Divisiveness and creating an environment of us vs them is not going to solve anything and a little give-and-take on all sides is required.

Carr's Hill carries over 25,000 vehicles a day. url]http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/HA0/RHA0053B.pdf[/url
Even though it's the most direct route for me to get home from a training spin, I haven't used it for for many years now as the population of Carrigaline, and the volume of traffic on this main arterial route, has increased dramatically.

Other may choose to steadfastly exert their right to cycle this road, some may in fact go this way specifically to find footage for their growing social media profiles - up to them. I've chosen to put myself in the position of someone trying to drive to or home from work and encountering a cyclist on that road and knowing how difficult and stressful it is to be at the front of a tailback of cars, waiting to safely overtake.

We all know we're entitled to cycle where we choose, but sometimes inconveniencing oneself to lessen the inconvenience of many hundreds of others, even though it will never be appreciated, and in fact probably only criticised by hardcore cycling evangelists, is the better option.

CramCycle wrote: »

I would disagree on this point though, forgetting any opinions about youtubers. If the road is a legitimate road to cycle or walk on, it should either be safe to do so or something should be done to improve it. There is a reason that cycling is banned on motorways, because of speeds, drift and a range of factors, nothing bar turning it into an N road with average speed cameras, will make it safe. It reminds me of when I was younger, my mother hated me cycling at night as there were so many drunk drivers. The solution, to stop me cycling at night, is not a solution, that was simply facilitating the problem. If drivers are driving dangerously there, then the gardai should be out there enforcing the rules till it becomes second nature, or other mitigation measures should be in place.

I don't think it's safe to cycle on and I've been cycling for years. As is typical in this country, there are plans to improve it but they wont happen for years. There are alternatives to Carr's Hill and fwiw, RTBI is commuting but he extends his commutes more often than not (rarely skipping Carr's Hill though, for whatever reason).

on_the_nickel wrote: »

Because realism and compromise are more constructive in the efforts to improve road safety for cyclists and pedestrians than whataboutery and stubbornness. Divisiveness and creating an environment of us vs them is not going to solve anything and a little give-and-take on all sides is required.

Carr's Hill carries over 25,000 vehicles a day. url]http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/HA0/RHA0053B.pdf[/url
Even though it's the most direct route for me to get home from a training spin, I haven't used it for for many years now as the population of Carrigaline, and the volume of traffic on this main arterial route, has increased dramatically.

Other may choose to steadfastly exert their right to cycle this road, some may in fact go this way specifically to find footage for their growing social media profiles - up to them. I've chosen to put myself in the position of someone trying to drive to or home from work and encountering a cyclist on that road and knowing how difficult and stressful it is to be at the front of a tailback of cars, waiting to safely overtake.

We all know we're entitled to cycle where we choose, but sometimes inconveniencing oneself to lessen the inconvenience of many hundreds of others, even though it will never be appreciated, and in fact probably only criticised by hardcore cycling evangelists, is the better option.

And by "compromise" you mean "cyclists get out of the way of the important motorists"?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And by "compromise" you mean "cyclists get out of the way of the important motorists"?

No, that's not what I mean, that's how your mindset chooses to interpret my post. And I think you know that.

on_the_nickel wrote: »

No, that's not what I mean, that's how your mindset chooses to interpret my post. And I think you know that.

I'm not sure that is known.
Some people have massive blinkers on. AJR- I hate writing posts that comment directly on others. Often I would agree with you on some parts of boards but sometimes you seem to have a massive blindspot that I don't think does you any favours in the long run.

on_the_nickel wrote: »

No, that's not what I mean, that's how your mindset chooses to interpret my post. And I think you know that.

That's what you said though -that cyclists should get out of the way of motorists.

km991148 wrote: »

I'm not sure that is known.
Some people have massive blinkers on. AJR- I hate writing posts that comment directly on others. Often I would agree with you on some parts of boards but sometimes you seem to have a massive blindspot that I don't think does you any favours in the long run.

Maybe, just maybe, maybe it's not me that has the blindspot.

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Some degree of safer drivers maybe but they're probably cancelled out by his antagonistic behaviour and riling up of motorists. Unquantifiable really.

Maybe put a thread up in the motorist thread and see how ya fair out? I reckon you'll get the same reception as here, even worse.

So all the decades of antagonistic driving by motorists in the UK, and over here too, is now down to Mikey and other cyclists who don't tug their forelock quite enough when asking the nice motorist to - pretty please with bells on - not kill them on their journey today?

Funny how there wasn't huge outcry or concerns about the route cause of antagonistic drivers until Mikey came along - but until he gets his tone exactly right he's going to get a virtual kicking round here.

timmyjimmy wrote: »

I'm sure there are. Speaking for myself, I now don't go over the speed limit on the motorway between Michelstown and Cahir as I was once caught speeding there. That doesn't mean i've stopped breaking the speed limit completely.

Just because Mikey has caught people breaking a law doesn't mean that they won't break the law elsewhere.

Your faith in the Church of Mickey is a bit idealist. That's not how the real world works.

Pure strawman arguement. No-one suggested these actions were a panacea solution.

km991148 wrote: »

Definitely more carrot than stick approach works for me.

I cycle like I drive in a lot if cases. Thank the kind gestures and read the road well ahead and be part of the traffic, including all responsibilities that go with it.

In younger angrier days it was more stress and more bull**** and fewer results.

For example: A lot if the time people make mistakes. The classic SMIDSY moves. Gesticulating and getting in people's faces does little except causes an argument (although of course sometimes it's absolutely rage inducing***). Pointing out what just happened generally gets an apology and an acknowledgement of mistake.

This doesn't exactly replicate Mikey but to me his attitude is closer to the former, even although he tries hard to make damn sure it looks like the latter.

***In these cases it's still the carrot approach, just modified a bit:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VReU7EgfPLc

It's possible to engage with people calmly, in a civil manner, assertively and directly as Mikey generally does with now gesticulation and no getting in people's faces.