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Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

Keano

Time to discuss what golf is going to look like for next year, maybe more, who knows.

What is your club doing? What would you like to see happen?

Mod note: we have done to death the restrictions(5k jumping to 20k in June) so this is not a thread for discussing that topic, take it to COVID-19 forum

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Lip Out

If you consider golf to be an "outdoor activity" then there is hope for April.

Russman

charlieIRL wrote: »

Listening to the news this morning, its not looking like April either.

Why ? What was said ? (genuinely asking, not arguing it)

Kiith

Hard to know what to believe, as there have been plenty of times where Leo says one thing, then MM says another.

It'll leak at some point, and we'll see what they say then.

charlieIRL

Russman wrote: »

Why ? What was said ? (genuinely asking, not arguing it)

Ml Martin was saying earlier that only minor restrictions could be lifted in April and won't be much different from now.

Monster249

charlieIRL wrote: »

Ml Martin was saying earlier that only minor restrictions could be lifted in April and won't be much different from now.

I for one will be going up the North twice a week in that case

flanzer

Small outdoor gatherings, can only mean tennis, small pods of team training, hiking, golf etc? Surely???

twounderpar

Some interesting facts and figures from Wed. Irish Times.
Number of days courses were closed from April 25th 2020 until April 5th 2021

Republic of Ireland...189 days
Nth Ireland 161
England 160
Wales 144
Scotland 66 (Closed last April and May. They are open since May 29th 2020)

USA have been open since last April or May. South Africa opened up last June.
The headline on the piece says that Republic of Ireland have had the longest golf closure in the world.

youcancallmeal

twounderpar wrote: »

The headline on the piece says that Republic of Ireland have had the longest golf closure in the world.

I wonder is that because of golf gate or just the Irish governments refusal to to do anything but blanket bans on everything. Maybe a bit of both

Monster249

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I wonder is that because of golf gate or just the Irish governments refusal to to do anything but blanket bans on everything. Maybe a bit of both

Definitely the latter, Ireland is near the top in every list for strictest lockdown across the board. It's just another part of their weak leadership and resistance to any sort of nuanced thinking!

bustercherry

Monster249 wrote: »

Definitely the latter, Ireland is near the top in every list for strictest lockdown across the board. It's just another part of their weak leadership and resistance to any sort of nuanced thinking!

This trope gets trotted out lots these days, especially when a decision is made people don't agree with. Most people don't even understand what it actually means.

Monster249

bustercherry wrote: »

This trope gets trotted out lots these days, especially when a decision is made people don't agree with. Most people don't even understand what it actually means.

I can assure you I understand exactly what it means, I just don't think in binary terms and I don't think making blanket decisions for almost the next 3 months is good enough.

Kid Charlemagne

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well maybe we are less compliant people. So the lockdown has to be different in Ireland.

Well maybe they didn't scale up the hospital capacity when they had a chance?
Well maybe they bowed to interest groups and opened all the boozers for a month in what is known to be peak flu season?
Well maybe they closed down golf courses despite the fact that its a perfectly safe way for people to exercise?
Well maybe they didn't close the borders and airports, and allowed the much more contagious UK strain to run rampant in the country?

etc...

ForeRight

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Well maybe they didn't close the borders and airports, and allowed the much more contagious UK strain to run rampant in the country?

etc...

I see this a lot. Can you explain to me how you close the north off from the republic. Legally and logistically.

bustercherry

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Well maybe they didn't scale up the hospital capacity when they had a chance?
Well maybe they bowed to interest groups and opened all the boozers for a month in what is known to be peak flu season?
Well maybe they closed down golf courses despite the fact that its a perfectly safe way for people to exercise?
Well maybe they didn't close the borders and airports, and allowed the much more contagious UK strain to run rampant in the country?

etc...

I think we have established that and they didn't close down "just" golf.

Kid Charlemagne

ForeRight wrote: »

I see this a lot. Can you explain to me how you close the north off from the republic. Legally and logistically.

Unnecessary travel preclusions - same as anywhere else in ireland. I cant drive over 5 km from my house. Checkpoints handle the logistics.

Anyway my point was more broadly about the fact that we should be calling the govt out for their failings rather than turning on our fellow citizens and somehow justifying the draconian restrictions we have been subject to.

Kingswood Rover

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Well maybe they didn't scale up the hospital capacity when they had a chance?
Well maybe they bowed to interest groups and opened all the boozers for a month in what is known to be peak flu season?
Well maybe they closed down golf courses despite the fact that its a perfectly safe way for people to exercise?
Well maybe they didn't close the borders and airports, and allowed the much more contagious UK strain to run rampant in the country?

etc...

But they did scale up hospital capacity as the figures waxed and waned.

bustercherry

Monster249 wrote: »

I can assure you I understand exactly what it means, I just don't think in binary terms and I don't think making blanket decisions for almost the next 3 months is good enough.

But you just effectively stated you thoughts in binary terms, "strict restrictions" is "weak/bad leadership"?

slave1

ForeRight wrote: »

I see this a lot. Can you explain to me how you close the north off from the republic. Legally and logistically.

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Unnecessary travel preclusions - same as anywhere else in ireland. I cant drive over 5 km from my house. Checkpoints handle the logistics.

Anyway my point was more broadly about the fact that we should be calling the govt out for their failings rather than turning on our fellow citizens and somehow justifying the draconian restrictions we have been subject to.

Take these to the COVID Forum, back to Golf Lockdown discussion please

Kid Charlemagne

bustercherry wrote: »

I think we have established that and they didn't close down "just" golf.

We have.

First Up

Kid Charlemagne wrote:

Well maybe they didn't close the borders and airports, and allowed the much more contagious UK strain to run rampant in the country?

Is it worth pointing out that if people were doing what they were supposed to (masks, distancing, hand washing, not gathering in houses) no strain would be running rampant?

Monster249

bustercherry wrote: »

But you just effectively stated you thoughts in binary terms, "strict restrictions" is "weak/bad leadership"?

You've mad assumptions. My criticism of the leadership is based on the communication, lack of actual rationale and evidence for many claims and restrictions and the ultra-conservative approach they've taken.

I don't think our reopening can (or should) be summarized into a 5 step plan, I also don't think a "ah sure we'll play it by ear, check back in 6 weeks" approach is good enough.

If you want to disagree with me and say that their communication has been solid and leadership inspiring and strong, then have at it, it's your opinion.

bustercherry

Monster249 wrote: »

You've mad assumptions. My criticism of the leadership is based on the communication, lack of actual rationale and evidence for many claims and restrictions and the ultra-conservative approach they've taken.

I don't think our reopening can (or should) be summarized into a 5 step plan, I also don't think a "ah sure we'll play it by ear, check back in 6 weeks" approach is good enough.

If you want to disagree with me and say that their communication has been solid and leadership inspiring and strong, then have at it, it's your opinion.

your words - "Ireland is near the top in every list for strictest lockdown across the board. It's just another part of their weak leadership and resistance to any sort of nuanced thinking!"

no mad assumptions.

almostover

Monster249 wrote: »

You've mad assumptions. My criticism of the leadership is based on the communication, lack of actual rationale and evidence for many claims and restrictions and the ultra-conservative approach they've taken.

I don't think our reopening can (or should) be summarized into a 5 step plan, I also don't think a "ah sure we'll play it by ear, check back in 6 weeks" approach is good enough.

If you want to disagree with me and say that their communication has been solid and leadership inspiring and strong, then have at it, it's your opinion.

The 'strategy' if you could label it as such is beyond useless. Golfers are being denied access to a safe sport and a whole myriad of other illogical restrictions have been foisted upon us. My biggest issue is that any 'living with covid strategy' should have revolved around transparent data based decision making. For example, have a review on the 1st Monday of every month. If the incidence rate is <w, death rate <x, hospital capacity >y and ICU capacity >z then we move to the restriction level that corresponds to those values. Simple, transparent, clear decision making. No pandering to lobby groups on one extreme and zero COVID proponents on the other extreme. Makes communication a cinch too.

Instead what we have is nothing short of a communication shambles. 'Era sure we will see what the craic is in a few weeks like'. As if the decision being made are pertaining to where will we go for a pint on Saturday night, which in any case is now outlawed.

Golf too would benefit from this clarity. At this present juncture golf club member are in the dark. We might be back in April, it could be June. No information on what drives those decisions at the highest level. This government must take serious responsibility for the waning of the resolve of the general population. There's no strategy for us to follow and human nature is dictating that in this vacuum devoid of any leadership that people are taking decisions into their own hands.

RGS

almostover wrote: »

The 'strategy' if you could label it as such is beyond useless. Golfers are being denied access to a safe sport and a whole myriad of other illogical restrictions have been foisted upon us. My biggest issue is that any 'living with covid strategy' should have revolved around transparent data based decision making. For example, have a review on the 1st Monday of every month. If the incidence rate is <w, death rate <x, hospital capacity >y and ICU capacity >z then we move to the restriction level that corresponds to those values. Simple, transparent, clear decision making. No pandering to lobby groups on one extreme and zero COVID proponents on the other extreme. Makes communication a cinch too.

Instead what we have is nothing short of a communication shambles. 'Era sure we will see what the craic is in a few weeks like'. As if the decision being made are pertaining to where will we go for a pint on Saturday night, which in any case is now outlawed.

Golf too would benefit from this clarity. At this present juncture golf club member are in the dark. We might be back in April, it could be June. No information on what drives those decisions at the highest level. This government must take serious responsibility for the waning of the resolve of the general population. There's no strategy for us to follow and human nature is dictating that in this vacuum devoid of any leadership that people are taking decisions into their own hands.

Elegantly put and it's a plan the country could rally around but unfortunately the government led and IMO dictated to by NPHET cant look beyond a binary approach.

Golfhead65

almostover wrote: »

The 'strategy' if you could label it as such is beyond useless. Golfers are being denied access to a safe sport and a whole myriad of other illogical restrictions have been foisted upon us. My biggest issue is that any 'living with covid strategy' should have revolved around transparent data based decision making. For example, have a review on the 1st Monday of every month. If the incidence rate is <w, death rate <x, hospital capacity >y and ICU capacity >z then we move to the restriction level that corresponds to those values. Simple, transparent, clear decision making. No pandering to lobby groups on one extreme and zero COVID proponents on the other extreme. Makes communication a cinch too.

Instead what we have is nothing short of a communication shambles. 'Era sure we will see what the craic is in a few weeks like'. As if the decision being made are pertaining to where will we go for a pint on Saturday night, which in any case is now outlawed.

Golf too would benefit from this clarity. At this present juncture golf club member are in the dark. We might be back in April, it could be June. No information on what drives those decisions at the highest level. This government must take serious responsibility for the waning of the resolve of the general population. There's no strategy for us to follow and human nature is dictating that in this vacuum devoid of any leadership that people are taking decisions into their own hands.

Agree in theory but they can massage the figures to do as they want.. Eg 3 deaths in March.. 23 in Feb and 6 in Jan.. This is what we see every day. Where they get the figures from is beyond belief

ForeRight

In the Indo today. These are the leaks I like to see.

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Kingswood Rover

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Agree in theory but they can massage the figures to do as they want.. Eg 3 deaths in March.. 23 in Feb and 6 in Jan.. This is what we see every day. Where they get the figures from is beyond belief

WHO guidelines

"A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma)"

Once Co vid is a contributing factor its noted on the Death Cert. From what i have read the rationale being for Population Surveillance purposes which makes sense as this is a new disease in humans.

opinionated3

ForeRight wrote: »

In the Indo today. These are the leaks I like to see.

[img][/img]https://media2.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpKniGqRNLGBrhu/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493biokvhhlmt4k06a519jvqkgf9kwq9zdt3yyssl9qi&rid=giphy.gif

The hilarious thing about that article is lumping golf and tennis in with the gaa. Not a hope in hell inter county teams will refrain from contact trainingðŸ˜

blue note

Senior intercounty gaa. So to look at Dublin since it's the one I've played in, there are 9 adult hurling divisions and 11 football. With about 12 teams in each, that makes about 240 teams. I would guess that there at far more kids teams than adult, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are 750 teams in Dublin alone. And from those 750 teams, they're talking about allowing two of them back. I think only Cork has more teams than Dublin, but nationwide it would probably be the equivalent of letting something like 1% of teams back to non contact training. So roughly the equivalent of letting a golf club open in each province in Ireland. Or if a golf club has 400 members allowing one fourball back.

Of course, let's ignore this sort of talk and pretend that they're being treated the exact same.

benji79

Cases high again today. With next half of schools to open Monday next two weeks will be critical. If it starts heading to the 800-1000 mark again per day we’ll be in trouble for every sport I think