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Installing Shelves in a Part 4 Tenancy

superhelpful

I was always under the impression that it was against the rules indefinitely to hang a shelf, painting, mirror or put any nail near a wall.

Only recently I've been told that isn't true.

That unless your lease explicitly disallows it, its permitted.

Myself and my housemates have been living in the house for roughly 3-4 years and the landlord recently changed. We have no fixed lease and only have a part 4.

Are we actually allowed to hang a shelf?

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GreeBo

I guess you could always ask the landlord?

I wouldnt let someone, but I might install a shelf for them.

superhelpful

GreeBo wrote: »

I guess you could always ask the landlord?

I wouldnt let someone, but I might install a shelf for them.

The landlord is an agency as opposed to a person so its not a case of just asking 1 person to come install.

I'd be fairly confident in doing it myself since I know where the studs are and have done it before in other accom and home.

Baby01032012

Are you planning on taking said shelf with you when leaving? If not no issue, if you are you’d need to replaster/repaint any holes. Most landlords/ agents wouldn’t care if you hang shelf.

tuisginideach

I'm surprised at you saying 'you only have a Part IV'. There's no 'only' about it.

GreeBo

superhelpful wrote: »

The landlord is an agency as opposed to a person so its not a case of just asking 1 person to come install.

I'd be fairly confident in doing it myself since I know where the studs are and have done it before in other accom and home.

You can still just ask them can you install it though? The agency is your landlord.

You might know how to do it, you might not, as your landlord I wouldn't take the risk personally!

ted1

Just do it. But when you move out you’ll have to take them out and make the walk right again. So polyfilla and paint.

dennyk

You are required to obtain your landlord's permission before making alterations to the property, but per the Residential Tenancies Act Section 16 (l), the landlord cannot unreasonably withhold permission if the alterations consist only of making repairs, painting, or decorating the property:

16.—In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—
...
(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord—

(i) in case the alteration or improvement consists only of repairing, painting and decorating, or any of those things, may not unreasonably withhold,

(ii) in any other case, may, in his or her discretion, withhold,

While the Act doesn't define "decorating", it's likely that hanging a simple shelf on a wall would fall under that definition, assuming it could be done in a way that causes no permanent damage to the wall.

At the end of your tenancy, you would generally be obligated to return the property to the landlord in the same state you left it during your occupation (aside from ordinary wear and tear), so the landlord could require you to undo any such alterations, or could generally take the cost of undoing them out of your deposit if you fail to return the property to its original state.

Mrs OBumble

As a tenant, I'd say just do it. And I have done it. Some shelves will be left when we go, and the LL will have no idea that they weren't original. Others we will remove and plaster + paint over.

As a LL I'd rather pay someone to do it, so you don't fúck it up.

Curious1002

I cant imagine that after 4 years of living in one place a tenant has to "return" the place in the same perfect condition he/she rented it years prior. After such a long time the landlord will be painting the place anyway to have to presentable for new comers.
Asking the angency for permission, like suggested above, will be met with 100% refusal but will also draw an unwanted attention to the issue and they will be keeping notes of such requests. It's a perfect excuse for them to deduct €50 or more from your deposit if they notice a 1mm hole in the wall one day. So just say nothing, hang the shelf/picture and in the future when you move out blame the normal wear and tear.

[Deleted User]

Curious1002 wrote: »

I cant imagine that after 4 years of living in one place a tenant has to "return" the place in the same perfect condition he/she rented it years prior. After such a long time the landlord will be painting the place anyway to have to presentable for new comers.
Asking the angency for permission, like suggested above, will be met with 100% refusal but will also draw an unwanted attention to the issue and they will be keeping notes of such requests. It's a perfect excuse for them to deduct €50 or more from your deposit if they notice a 1mm hole in the wall one day. So just say nothing, hang the shelf/picture and in the future when you move out blame the normal wear and tear.

I doubt drilling holes in a wall are considered normal wear and tear. Having said that, if the shelf stays after the op moves out and it is of decent quality/fit, I doubt there would be a problem. On the other hand of the shelf is crap and the op is useless at DIY, the owner should not be criticised for using a portion of deposit to return the wall to the condition it was in when the op entered the property.

superhelpful

Thanks for all the feedback folks, it looks like there is a mixed opinion which depends entirely on how reasonable the landlord is. But it sounds like the law is on my side and they'd want a good rationale to refuse it.

I did reach out to the agency in the end, it was forwarded to someone random in the agency and seems to have disappeared into the ether now.

I'm not going to push the issue

tuisginideach

I am amused/bemused by all the comments that say 'just plaster over it and paint over it' - have those people ever tried to match paint colours or are they suggesting you paint the whole room to avoid a patch of a different shade????

BaguMka

tuisginideach wrote: »

I am amused/bemused by all the comments that say 'just plaster over it and paint over it' - have those people ever tried to match paint colours or are they suggesting you paint the whole room to avoid a patch of a different shade????

When I had moved in apartment there were a lot of "patches" and I presumed I would do the same when I move out.. that being said it all depends on the state of property you are moving in. Obviously if it is a brand new or freshly decorated dwelling you would be expected to leave it in the same state..

Del2005

BaguMka wrote: »

When I had moved in apartment there were a lot of "patches" and I presumed I would do the same when I move out.. that being said it all depends on the state of property you are moving in. Obviously if it is a brand new or freshly decorated dwelling you would be expected to leave it in the same state..

Just because it's not perfect when you move in doesn't mean that you can do more alterations damage

GreeBo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As a tenant, I'd say.......<snip>..... the LL will have no idea that they weren't original.

This attitude wouldnt really endear you to many landlords.
Its their property, you dont get to decide what they will or will not remember.

BaguMka

Del2005 wrote: »

Just because it's not perfect when you move in doesn't mean that you can do more alterations damage

Yes i can and I will don't worry about me there is no damage I ever made only improvements

Mrs OBumble

GreeBo wrote: »

This attitude wouldnt really endear you to many landlords.
Its their property, you dont get to decide what they will or will not remember.

He's seen the place twice in ten years!

There's no way he will have a problem with a perfectly fitting shelf in the corner of the kitchen, which looks like it's been there forever. Or the under-cupboard light that we fitted, either.

[Deleted User]

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He's seen the place twice in ten years!

There's no way he will have a problem with a perfectly fitting shelf in the corner of the kitchen, which looks like it's been there forever. Or the under-cupboard light that we fitted, either.

You are assuming he won’t.

GreeBo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He's seen the place twice in ten years!

And?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There's no way he will have a problem with a perfectly fitting shelf in the corner of the kitchen, which looks like it's been there forever. Or the under-cupboard light that we fitted, either.

Of course, no way whatsoever someone could think differently than you do, about *their* property.:rolleyes: