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Would you ever consider moving to continental Europe? And if so where?

SharpshooterTom

Usually when Irish people think about moving abroad, they immediately think of English speaking countries (USA, Canada, Australia, NZ even the UK) but I'm wondering if you would consider moving to continental Europe, and if so, where would you choose?

I've always liked Scandinavia and definitely would be open to moving there (any of the countries), low crime, low unemployment, good wages, good education system, although taxes are through the roof. Germany likewise. Being fluent in German means gives you access to countries totaling 100 million people (Swiss German is quite different though). I've not been as keen on southern Europe largely because most of the countries seem to be forever dogged with high unemployment (France was close to 10% even before the pandemic), wages are a bit lower.

I've put a poll up (multiple choice) and grouped them into regions since I can't obviously list every country.

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Brian?

I see sheep wrote: »

Does anyone know are there any countries where it's easy to rent an apartment for a year/more without having a job etc. there.
I've lived in Europe but my accommodation has always been sorted through work, if you can work remotely there without working there I wonder is this the main issue?

To be honest I wouldn't rent you a property if I was a landlord, without a work reference from A local company it's too much of a risk.

Most countries in Europe have much stronger tenants rights laws. Here in the Netherlands it's almost impossible to get someone out of your property if they don't want to leave. So there aren't as many private landlords as Ireland.

You may get someone willing to rent you a room though. Or you could pay extra for short stat serviced apartments

jobeenfitz

Iv been in Spain for Last 6 winters including now.

Benalmadena, its easy to get bye with very little Spanish. All of the shops and bars along the front speak English. Many of them are English or Irish run.

Weather is mostly mild. Last six Christmas days have been around 20 degrees.

Food and beer is cheap and accommodation near the beach is way cheaper than Ireland. Travel also cheap.

Lots of Irish and English living around here.

jobeenfitz

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Iv been in Spain for Last 6 winters including now.

Benalmadena, its easy to get bye with very little Spanish. All of the shops and bars along the front speak English. Many of them are English or Irish run.

Weather is mostly mild. Last six Christmas days have been around 20 degrees.

Food and beer is cheap and accommodation near the beach is way cheaper than Ireland. Travel also cheap.

Lots of Irish and English living around here.

Bars open til 6pm at the moment, rumoured to be opening til 9.30 from next Friday.

ShatterAlan

Rodin wrote: »

Never heard of conspiracy to commit theft?
Don't have to profile them. Anyone can see who they are...

I think that applies to getting caught in the act. I you break into a shop and crack open the cash register and are about to fill your pockets when security or the police arrive and catch you then technically you haven't stolen anything as you didn't get the chance so you can't be done for theft but you can certainly be done for breaking and entering and "attempted" theft or "conspiracy to commit theft". Had you grabbed the loot and fled only to be apprehended up the road then yes then you can be done for theft. If you are just standing outside the shop casing the joint and plotting your move to rob the place you can't really be done for anything as you haven't committed any crime at that point.

ShatterAlan

I see sheep wrote: »

Does anyone know are there any countries where it's easy to rent an apartment for a year/more without having a job etc. there.
I've lived in Europe but my accommodation has always been sorted through work, if you can work remotely there without working there I wonder is this the main issue?

The Netherlands. They don't care what you do as long as you pay the rent on time and don't wreck the place or use it as a meth lab.

I see sheep

Brian? wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't rent you a property if I was a landlord, without a work reference from A local company it's too much of a risk.

Most countries in Europe have much stronger tenants rights laws. Here in the Netherlands it's almost impossible to get someone out of your property if they don't want to leave. So there aren't as many private landlords as Ireland.

You may get someone willing to rent you a room though. Or you could pay extra for short stat serviced apartments

I wonder will some places try to make this easier for remote workers, I've read things like this - https://globetrender.com/2020/11/05/mauritius-introduces-one-year-premium-visa-long-stay-guests/
I know this thread is about Europe though and I'd prefer moving to Europe again too rather than the other side of the world.

Jim2007

I see sheep wrote: »

Does anyone know are there any countries where it's easy to rent an apartment for a year/more without having a job etc. there.
I've lived in Europe but my accommodation has always been sorted through work, if you can work remotely there without working there I wonder is this the main issue?

Well the first issue you have is that you'd need a resident permit. Contrary to what some people believe, you don't have a right to just move to another EU state. You have a right:
- To go there for 3 months to seek employment and have that period extended to 6 months
- To take up employment
- To establish a business there
- For the purposes of family reunification
- To retire
There is no right to move to another state and just work remotely as the primary resident. And there is a requirement to establish economic viability within five years in order to have a right to permanent resident status.

Most of the EU operates under the Napoleonic Code, which means the ownership and primary renters have to usually go through some form of registration, so right of residency is a thing.

Best bet is probably so kind of rolling ArBnb or sub lease from someone how does not care to much about following the local rules.

I see sheep

ShatterAlan wrote: »

The Netherlands. They don't care what you do as long as you pay the rent on time and don't wreck the place or use it as a meth lab.

Damn.

ShatterAlan

I see sheep wrote: »

Damn.

You don't have to tell them.

[Deleted User]

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I think that applies to getting caught in the act. I you break into a shop and crack open the cash register and are about to fill your pockets when security or the police arrive and catch you then technically you haven't stolen anything as you didn't get the chance so you can't be done for theft but you can certainly be done for breaking and entering and "attempted" theft or "conspiracy to commit theft". Had you grabbed the loot and fled only to be apprehended up the road then yes then you can be done for theft. If you are just standing outside the shop casing the joint and plotting your move to rob the place you can't really be done for anything as you haven't committed any crime at that point.

Spot on Alan, It's 'attempting to commit an indictable offence' and as you correctly point out, you have to actually be committibg an act. Not slouching against a pillar eyeballing tourists.

yagan

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Iv been in Spain for Last 6 winters including now.

Benalmadena, its easy to get bye with very little Spanish. All of the shops and bars along the front speak English. Many of them are English or Irish run.

Weather is mostly mild. Last six Christmas days have been around 20 degrees.

Food and beer is cheap and accommodation near the beach is way cheaper than Ireland. Travel also cheap.

Lots of Irish and English living around here.

Is that actually living in Europe?

It sounds like living in versions of Brit/Ireland rather than Spain.

Jim2007

BeerWolf wrote: »

Idly Switzerland

Yep, and now that the Brits are a third country with a quota.... puts the Irish ahead ;-)

[Deleted User]

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I was working with a guy from Istanbul back in 2005 in Amsterdam. He was on the phone one day to a friend or relative back home and then came over to me laughing in amazement. It was the day of the 2005 Champions League final or possibly the day before and the Liverpool supporters were in Istanbul. According to his friend they had literally drank istanbul dry. All the cafes and shops had run out of beer and the owners had to call up people in villages and have them load up the car/van and ship more beer into the city. :pac:

That's a nice story. Think you may have quoted myself instead of the lads discussing turkey though

[Deleted User]

yagan wrote: »

Is that actually living in Europe?

It sounds like living in versions of Brit/Ireland rather than Spain.

But cheaper and sunnier which is exactly what some people want.

[Deleted User]

I see sheep wrote: »

Does anyone know are there any countries where it's easy to rent an apartment for a year/more without having a job etc. there.
I've lived in Europe but my accommodation has always been sorted through work, if you can work remotely there without working there I wonder is this the main issue?

In south Spain you could get a long term holiday rental when I lived there. Knew a few people that spent their winters there renting and then head home for work in the summer.

Might be harder now, been a while.

am i bovvered

We moved to France a few years ago.
It wasn’t really a big plan, started by doing a ski season and now we alternate between Burgundy and the Alps.
Life is good but learning French has been much more difficult than we thought.

Piehead

Luxembourg. Yeah it’s very vibrant and exciting

yagan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

But cheaper and sunnier which is exactly what some people want.

I get that, they want Britain/Ireland in the sun, swapping the bus to Blackpool/Skagness/Tramore/Courtown for a plane to Spain.

I love a sun holiday, especially in January/Feb when Ireland is at its bleakest and coldest, but I wouldn't consider moving to a transplanted version of Ireland/England as moving to Europe.

You could be talking about Morocco and Turkey too so what you describe is more of a artificial environment that's within but separate to the host nation/continent.

zweton

Anyone bought an apartment in Spain? If so what part and was it a good decision?

feargale

feargale wrote: »

The last thing anyone should attempt to learn of a foreign language is slang. A minor mistake can get you into huge trouble. Learn the basics and everything else first.

pgj2015 wrote: »

This kind of thing sticks out to me. Along with stuff like learn the language or the locals wont like you. Are continentals so sensitive and uptight that they are offended by mistakes and people just not being good at learning a language?

oh don't even mention Hitler while in Germany. why? it happened. its not like I would be making jokes about what he did or anything. Jesus lighten up like.

I like visiting countries like Germany but I don't think I could live there. They are too different to our culture, I would find them annoying and dry.

Ok, do it your way. Learn the slang before you learn the language.

When you meet the Queen of Spain and you commit a faux pas you can always explain to her that you unintentionally caused her to be embarazada (pregnant in Spanish.)
And when you're in Moscow and in need of a drink ask a policeman for directions to the nearest publichny dom ( literally a public house, but actually a brothel.) And if the cop tells you to cop on tell him his nonsensical sensitivity sticks out to you. Let us know when you come back how you got on - that is if you do get back.

Yes indeed, why don't all those damned foreign fellows speak English? Did they never hear the old adage? When in Rome do as a gob****e. :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Portugal, for people, sunshine, cost and golf.

Feria40

yagan wrote: »

My only fear about that is being surrounded by anglo guiri, if you know what I mean. I had a good level of español from time spent in Latam so I'd rather avoid the expat ghettos.

Is Malaga a real Costa de Blackpool?

Nothing could be further from the truth.

NeuralNetwork

I'm wondering what the practicalities of making a move in the next few months might be. I'm just beginning to find the whole situation in Ireland a bit depressing at the moment.

I know the coronavirus mess is going to be an issue regardless of where I go, but there's a sense of impending problems with Brexit and total lack of reality coming from both London and Belfast that are starting to worry me a lot.

I find myself preparing contingencies to move abroad if the economy starts to go into a mess over the months ahead.

It's weird, but I have the same sense I got as the 2008 fiasco began to dawn. There's a sense of unreality to everything at the moment and just impending problems over the horizon.

murpho999

yagan wrote: »

I actually have very sallow skin that goes brown very quickly, spanish great grandmother. Been mistaken for a local many a time in Latam, Spain and Italy.

On a side note you do know that sallow skin is not just olive or brown skin but pale or yellow skin signifying illness or disease?

Link

I don't know why people seem to view sallow skin as a positive.

[Deleted User]

irishguitarlad wrote: »

July and August are the worst but we have air-con.

Do they do the full on siesta in Seville? I know the smaller towns in Andalusia do. Nice custom.

Kia_Kaha

yagan wrote: »

My only fear about that is being surrounded by anglo guiri, if you know what I mean. I had a good level of español from time spent in Latam so I'd rather avoid the expat ghettos.

Is Malaga a real Costa de Blackpool?

Malaga city definitely isn't, it's as Spanish as it gets. I've gone for days without hearing English spoken in Malaga. Down the coast in the resort towns yes some places are all egg and chips and sky sports bars, but not Malaga city. It's actually really beautiful and the climate in winter is like late Spring or summer here.

[Deleted User]

Feria40 wrote: »

Nothing could be further from the truth.

? It’s at least partially true.

[Deleted User]

Anyway, it looks like that Europe is pretty good all in all.

Jim2007

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I'm wondering what the practicalities of making a move in the next few months might be. I'm just beginning to find the whole situation in Ireland a bit depressing at the moment.

It is not better here (Switzerland) nor anywhere else for that matter, but at least at home you know are already set up, have family and social contacts.

Move abroad now and I expect it to be even more depressing, everyone here is very careful about social contact and no one is interested in making new friends etc.

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I know the coronavirus mess is going to be an issue regardless of where I go, but there's a sense of impending problems with Brexit and total lack of reality coming from both London and Belfast that are starting to worry me a lot.

Everyone is worried about BREXIT. The UK was an important market for Switzerland and clearly since January we have had difficulties exporting, people are concerned about their jobs etc...

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I find myself preparing contingencies to move abroad if the economy starts to go into a mess over the months ahead.

It's weird, but I have the same sense I got as the 2008 fiasco began to dawn. There's a sense of unreality to everything at the moment and just impending problems over the horizon.

Statistically you are in one of the two best economies when it comes to recovery after this crisis, the other being Germany. These are the only two economies that produce positive balances on trade on a regular basis. Remember Ireland reduced it's national debt from 124% down to 58% over the last ten or eleven years, that is some achievement.

Tyrone212

murpho999 wrote: »

This is a really bad attitude.

If you want to have a more pleasant experience and maybe make local friends then you should try to learn the language.

It will enrich the stay, earn respect from people and if you manage it then it makes everything more enjoyable.

Reminds of an article in the Irish times during the brexit debate interviewing English people who live in ireland and how they would vote. There was an elderly English couple who lived in Cork for years. They lived in France for 20 years or so and left because no one spoke English. They didn't learn French the entire time they were there. I haven't got the exact details of it right but that was the general gist.