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Child Item

New LED light tripping switch

karlitob

Hi all

Appreciate any advice.

Have had an open lighting wire hanging from my ceiling for 10 years - I know, I know.

Had a halogen bulb ceiling pendant on for about a month 6 years ago - pendant glass cracked so took the whole fitting back.

Anyway bought this today - when I flicked it on - lights tripped. Reset the trip - all other lights on the ring are fine. But then this tripped it again.

The only difficulty I had installing is that the earth wire from ceiling is thin and stiff so a bit awkward getting it in the block.

All three are cinched tight; there’s ferrules on the live and earth; I sank new screws/plugs but didn’t hit anything.

Any suggestions?

Thanks as always.

https://www.eurosales.ie/sites/admin/plugins/elfinder/files/eurosales/factsheets/ANSGU10SC.pdf

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karlitob

Chawosfski wrote: »

No it's just bad practice and against regulations

Rcds , sure you can call a rec and the best option is to fit rcbos

If you're concerned call a Rec about the installation

No - I’m not concerned. You had mentioned it in your last post.

If I get an Rcbo fitted will that stop it tripping?

Chawosfski

karlitob wrote: »

No - I’m not concerned. You had mentioned it in your last post.

If I get an Rcbo fitted will that stop it tripping?

I pointed out a couple of bad habits , rcbos are not your issue here

Unfortunately if you're so concerned about safety ,.maybe get a Rec to do your work in future

karlitob

Chawosfski wrote: »

I pointed out a couple of bad habits , rcbos are not your issue here

Unfortunately if you're so concerned about safety ,.maybe get a Rec to do your work in future

Thanks for your time in pointing out the RECs bad habits.

I not “concerned about safety”. I’m just asking for help as to why a new light fitting could trip and what I can do about it. You mentioned sheaths and rcbs and rcbos and recs, but that none of these things were the cause.

Any advice as to how to fix this would be grateful. Appreciate you taking the time to post.

Chawosfski

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for your time in pointing out the RECs bad habits.

I not “concerned about safety”. I’m just asking for help as to why a new light fitting could trip and what I can do about it. You mentioned sheaths and rcbs and rcbos and recs, but that none of these things were the cause.

Any advice as to how to fix this would be grateful. Appreciate you taking the time to post.

Sheathing can be a contributory factor to tripping

These are general points i'm making , not specific to your fault

karlitob

Chawosfski wrote: »

Sheathing can be a contributory factor to tripping

These are general points i'm making , not specific to your fault

Where the unsheathed earth goes into the terminal block - could I wire that directly into the earth on the fixture support. Could that help?

whizbang

Which number switch on the main board is popping ?

Better to have all wires into terminal block, but no difference in electrical terms.

Does it trip with only the bare earth disconnected ?

meercat

karlitob wrote: »

Did that. Still popped.

Now disconnect the spotlight and reconnect the led strip light and see what happens

karlitob

meercat wrote: »

Now disconnect the spotlight and reconnect the led strip light and see what happens

So
- tried just having the earth in the terminal block. Still tripped
- trip number 16 on the consumer unit
- I tested for continuity (200 ohms on multimeter) on the wires for this light: live to neutral (no continuity), live to earth (no continuity), earth to neutral (01.3). Not sure what that means.
- I tested continuity on the wires feeding the LED strip. Same as above.
- I reconnected the LED and disconnected the new light fitting. Did not trip.

So

Should I try a normal bulb on this and see what happens?
It’s a metal casing, could that be an issue?

Thanks for your help meercat.

karlitob

Just knocked in another lampholder and halogen light I was working on - no problems at all.

Just to say, that the new LED spotlight luminaire trips with and without a gu10 in it.

I’ve also - for some reason most likely cos I have it - have tested all components in the luminaire with a multimeter. Everything seems fine.

Not sure if it makes a difference but the lamp holder I knocked in was a 12v transformer to two g4 halogen lamps for the bedroom.

Sleamhain

karlitob wrote: »

Not sure how useful this is but the fixture does work.

And just checked again - I didn’t hit the wire. No where near it.

The light is working in this picture, but with no earth connected to the metal plate. It is possible that there is a short circuit to the metal plate (from the connector block on the plate) that is tripping when its earthed. It doesn't seem to be your wiring as I see you have another light working in its place now.

karlitob

rob w wrote: »

The light is working in this picture, but with no earth connected to the metal plate. It is possible that there is a short circuit to the metal plate (from the connector block on the plate) that is tripping when its earthed. It doesn't seem to be your wiring as I see you have another light working in its place now.

Yeah I had wondered that alright - whether it’s an issue with the earth or the initial power going through it. The new luminaire trips with all or each (L, E and N) in separately and both with and without a gu10 in. And without any other light on that switch. So I don’t think it’s a power / loading thing.

It’s a metal casing and the instructions are keen for earthing. There does seem to be a lot of earth wires.

Why does it need to earth to the fixing plate. Could I reduce the number of earth wires?

karlitob

Perhaps the second wire isn’t needed if the ring only has two core. In other words, if there’s 3 core only one of those earths are needed. If there’s a 2 core then 2 of those earths are needed.

Am I miles off the Mark?

Chawosfski

A new house should definitely fix this

But there's always a chance the new house could have the same problem

karlitob

Chawosfski wrote: »

A new house should definitely fix this

But there's always a chance the new house could have the same problem

It is new!

What do you think about the earthing?

karlitob

Fixed.

Spot the difference.

Sleamhain

karlitob wrote: »

Fixed.

Spot the difference.

If that has fixed it, there was potentially a short from the earthed metal bracket on the ceiling to a live conductor. It may now be live itself as you have disconnected the earth. It was there for a reason and that's why it was tripping.

Have you fixed the light back up to the bracket yet?

karlitob

karlitob wrote: »

Fixed.

Spot the difference.

Noooooooooooo!!!!!

It worked. Then I screwed the fixture up. Then it popped again. Arghhhhh!!!!

karlitob

rob w wrote: »

If that has fixed it, there was potentially a short from the earthed metal bracket on the ceiling to a live conductor. It may now be live itself as you have disconnected the earth. It was there for a reason and that's why it was tripping.

Have you fixed the light back up to the bracket yet?

See above

Popped again once I screwed it back up. I had wondered if the extra earth if there was only 2 core rather than 3 core.

So - where am I?

I’ve multimeter’d the luminaire. Everything makes sense.

I’ve multimeter’d the ceiling wires - I think they all make sense (the earth and live on 200ohm showed a read of 01.3).

I’ve put different fixtures in - albeit without an earth.

I’ve tried each wire (l,n and earth) in only - all trip.

The only permutation I haven’t tried is to fit it fully - screw it up and see what happens?

It’s getting tiring at this stage!

Thanks for help.

punisher5112

Your screwed into the cable at the fittin fixing anchor.

karlitob

punisher5112 wrote: »

Your screwed into the cable at the fittin fixing anchor.

That makes sense. But I really haven’t. I’m nowhere near where the wire is coming from.

punisher5112

Is it screwed up into metal?

karlitob

punisher5112 wrote: »

Your screwed into the cable at the fittin fixing anchor.

Is there a fix?

I presume - knock a hole, and new wire/new connection.

punisher5112

Take screws out, I'd say it's hit the neutral, these are looped, fitting to fitting.

You need to find where cable is damaged or run a new one or connector blocks on affected point.

karlitob

punisher5112 wrote: »

Is it screwed up into metal?

I’ve only had a incandescent light on it once for 1 week, there was a metal fixing plate and the glass cracked so we took it back. It’s into wood one side and plaster only at the other.

So as to be nowhere near the wire this time - and to change the orientation of the fitting so that the screws don’t show, I sunk two holes. I was careful, I felt nothing - plaster board gave way and I have two plugs and screws in so it’s not into joist or anything.

karlitob

punisher5112 wrote: »

Take screws out, I'd say it's hit the neutral, these are looped, fitting to fitting.

You need to find where cable is damaged or run a new one or connector blocks on affected point.

Is there a way to test before I do all that?

Thanks for your help by the way.

punisher5112

karlitob wrote: »

Is there a way to test before I do all that?

Thanks for your help by the way.

You would need to look at the cable at the point where you screwed up. This means cutting a hole enough to do a joing, into a junction box.

Look up wago connector they're absolutely brilliant for connecting cables.

The neutral set up tend to be throughout the house so say 4 rooms, these will all have a neutral shared between them, the live then comes up from the switch, the earth may also be shared depends on how it was wired.

Chawosfski

So it was the obvious all along

You'll be going on 'til u kill someone

Chawosfski

As said you'll have to access the damage now

Simply taking out the screw isn't enough

karlitob

Bingo!

Thought I’d no slack - cable just very stiff. Pulled through now. Will strip and attach.

Thanks gents.

Chawosfski

karlitob wrote: »

Bingo!

Thought I’d no slack - cable just very stiff. Pulled through now. Will strip and attach.

Thanks gents.

You're some clown, you said u didn't hit the wire

I saw a job onetime where there was a slabnail through a t+e

The meter was flying but fuse wasn't blowing

That's the additional hazard where there's no rcd, although not their primary purpose