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How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Tokyo

Mod:

Continuation of the How long before Irish reunification? thread.

Please note that all mod warnings, actions and threadbans from the previous thread carry across to here.

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
blanch152
Randy Archer
Natterjack from Kerry
littlevillage

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Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I completely agree with you, although seems the ordinary catholic roses above their nonsense and just follows what’s in the best interests of them and their family’s futures. That why Union is secure.

As for SF if you were on the ground here you may have a different view. I reckon the blatant sectarianism and pandering to the past by my local SF MP will ensure they lose their seat to the SDLP next time around.

Indeed, going by the tweet you linked to earlier in the thread I wouldn't shed too many tears to see Hazzard go. Transferring his seat to the other major Nationalist party wouldn't spell out much in the grand scheme of things.

If the DUP take the hiding they're expected to (and in reality what all their duplicitous nonsense recently has been about avoiding), we could be looking at a Nationalist First Minster though, which would (at least symbolically) be much more significant.

downcow

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Old guard of SF were responsible for butchery, most Catholics would agree with that Downcow. But SF have adapted better to modern politics, Dodds was simply awful yesterday, odious. But that’s his way and Foster, Wilson and Paisley are little better. The union is going to end if it can’t get a lot of Catholic support, that style of unionist will definitely see it off if they’re let.

I completely agree with you, although seems the ordinary catholic roses above their nonsense and just follows what’s in the best interests of them and their family’s futures. That why Union is secure.

As for SF if you were on the ground here you may have a different view. I reckon the blatant sectarianism and pandering to the past by my local SF MP will ensure they lose their seat to the SDLP next time around.

[Deleted User]

downcow wrote: »

The irony.
I have no love for the dup old guard and agree with you analysis, but it is ironic that you describe them as aggressive when SF have british MPs who have murdered and tortured their constituents

Old guard of SF were responsible for butchery, most Catholics would agree with that Downcow. But SF have adapted better to modern politics, Dodds was simply awful yesterday, odious. But that’s his way and Foster, Wilson and Paisley are little better. The union is going to end if it can’t get a lot of Catholic support, that style of unionist will definitely see it off if they’re let.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

You don’t understand the UK. Who is Britain? That’s like saying Leinster doesn’t care about Connaught. The political entity and internationally recognised territory is ROI,
When you refer to Britain and NI you are discussing an internal issue. ROI is external and at the moment encouraging EU to be antagonistic and petty towards the UK. It’s actually pathetic

Britain is the island to the right of the island of Ireland which is made up of three parts of the UK, with the fourth part of the UK not being part of Britain.

It has often been (reasonably) stated that certain Irish government decisions are too Dublin centric, in those cases it would be quite reasonable to state that Leinster is demonstrating that it doesn't care about anywhere outside The Pale. I certainly wouldn't be getting my knickers in a twist if someone used that terminology.

Furthermore, describing the UK's decision to leave the EU and the UK's decision to agree to a withdrawal treaty dictating the UK's future relationship with the EU.....and the EU expecting the UK to actually uphold the agreement they just came to a few weeks ago as EU antagonism.....while giving the UK a free pass on unilaterally trying to ignore said agreement from a few weeks ago....you're practically inside out from all the twisting.

As for Ireland being external to the matter....you may have noticed that the NI protocol does in fact have quite a lot to do with the Irish state....and we are discussing an agreement between the UK and the EU, so it certainly isn't external....so maybe if you want to focus on internal UK matters, don't try and involve treaties you've just agreed to with the EU.

downcow

UDAWINNER wrote: »

This never actually happened.
Worth remembering that the DUP signed up for this protocol as they wanted Brexit at all costs. They own this, now deal with it like adults and not have their murdering, drug dealing pals issuing threats. How can anyone can support a racist, homophobic party like the DUP is beyond me. Proper leaders would work with the agreement they have to benefit both sides of the community but when has Unionists ever done that, never

Again I agree with you and am bemused that so many continue to support DUP politicians who are homophobic. I do though need to call you out as the unionist community can’t understand how so many can support a party that is the political wing of a sectarian murder gang who devastated their neighbours

downcow

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Heard Nigel Dodds on Radio 1 this evening, he is not very nice at all. Very aggressive, talking to the presenter in a terrible way. Again, why does someone like that reach the top of unionism? There has to be more ability there. Just very rude and aggressive, terrible attributes for a politician anywhere else.

The irony.
I have no love for the dup old guard and agree with you analysis, but it is ironic that you describe them as aggressive when SF have british MPs who have murdered and tortured their constituents

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

One is happening, one was discussed as a potential option and dismissed. Only one side is actually contravening the Protocol, despite your Daily Express headline type assertions to the contrary.

Still haven't addressed the mental gymnastics you employ to avoid acknowledging Britain being more guilty than the EU of any of the accusations you're making with regards to consideration for NI.....particularly poignant given that NI is part of the UK and not part of the EU, so it one would expect the UK to make more effort on what is in NI's best interests, not less.

You don’t understand the UK. Who is Britain? That’s like saying Leinster doesn’t care about Connaught. The political entity and internationally recognised territory is ROI,
When you refer to Britain and NI you are discussing an internal issue. ROI is external and at the moment encouraging EU to be antagonistic and petty towards the UK. It’s actually pathetic

Kermit.de.frog

Jonathan Powell quite forthright - the border in the sea is going nowhere.

https://twitter.com/jude5456/status/1367776730711265288

UDAWINNER

downcow wrote: »

Compare and contrast.
UK will allow tractors to go to ni with specs of soil on them
EU decided to prevent a lorry load of vital vaccines travelling to ni
Both contravened the protocol.

Catch yourself on with your holier than thou nonsense

This never actually happened.
Worth remembering that the DUP signed up for this protocol as they wanted Brexit at all costs. They own this, now deal with it like adults and not have their murdering, drug dealing pals issuing threats. How can anyone can support a racist, homophobic party like the DUP is beyond me. Proper leaders would work with the agreement they have to benefit both sides of the community but when has Unionists ever done that, never

UDAWINNER

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Heard Nigel Dodds on Radio 1 this evening, he is not very nice at all. Very aggressive, talking to the presenter in a terrible way. Again, why does someone like that reach the top of unionism? There has to be more ability there. Just very rude and aggressive, terrible attributes for a politician anywhere else.

If Micheal was a proper leader he would call out Idiots like Dodds and Sammy and the rest of the DUP for the racist, homophopes that they are. But he won't as it would not suit his Anti SF agenda.

[Deleted User]

Heard Nigel Dodds on Radio 1 this evening, he is not very nice at all. Very aggressive, talking to the presenter in a terrible way. Again, why does someone like that reach the top of unionism? There has to be more ability there. Just very rude and aggressive, terrible attributes for a politician anywhere else.

Kermit.de.frog

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think BoJo and Frost's 'wonderful' deal should not be ratified until the British learn to behave themselves.

Brits gonna Brit

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Compare and contrast.
UK will allow tractors to go to ni with specs of soil on them
EU decided to prevent a lorry load of vital vaccines travelling to ni
Both contravened the protocol.

Catch yourself on with your holier than thou nonsense

This is just giggle level stuff and probably indicative of why Unionism is where it is.

The first is decades old EU protection of it's single market, which the UK was happy to do when a member and who AGREED to protect when the deal was ratified in the HoC. I.E. This is in the agreement.
The other is a dispute with a company playing fast and loose with the terms of a contract.

You'll lose this fight and the sad thing is, you won't know why, so blinded are you.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Compare and contrast.
UK will allow tractors to go to ni with specs of soil on them
EU decided to prevent a lorry load of vital vaccines travelling to ni
Both contravened the protocol.

Catch yourself on with your holier than thou nonsense

One is happening, one was discussed as a potential option and dismissed. Only one side is actually contravening the Protocol, despite your Daily Express headline type assertions to the contrary.

Still haven't addressed the mental gymnastics you employ to avoid acknowledging Britain being more guilty than the EU of any of the accusations you're making with regards to consideration for NI.....particularly poignant given that NI is part of the UK and not part of the EU, so it one would expect the UK to make more effort on what is in NI's best interests, not less.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

The UK have unilaterally decided to ignore an agreement they just signed up to (and boasted about how great it was).....you're suggesting that if the EU respond to this, they are being petty and demonstrating that they don't care about NI.....but seem to ignore how petty it was of the UK to make this decision (and announce it for cheap political capital) when an extension was already being discussed with the EU through the proper channels......or how agreeing to it in the first place if it is so egregious a demand would demonstrate precisely how important the UK government consider NI.

The mental gymnastics you need to pull to simultaneously use this to criticise the EU (the reactionary party in the dispute) and to excuse the UK of all responsibility (the instigatory party) is mind boggling.

The specific nature of what part of the agreement the UK have chosen to ignore is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that they agreed to these terms they are choosing to ignore, and they are leaving their reputation in tatters on the international stage by demonstrating that they cannot be trusted to keep their word.

Compare and contrast.
UK will allow tractors to go to ni with specs of soil on them
EU decided to prevent a lorry load of vital vaccines travelling to ni
Both contravened the protocol.

Catch yourself on with your holier than thou nonsense

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

We are both probably cutting off our noses to spite our faces as NI would lose its advantageous position and Roi would be screwed

You'd be cutting off your head, Britain would be severely harmed and could face serious unrest. Ireland would be fine as less than 8% of our goods go to Britain and our supply lines via direct ferries to mainland Europe/EU bypass the chaos.

Businesses in the north would be glad of the withdrawal agreement (which is separate to trade arrangements) and unfettered access to the rest of the EU.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Surely they wouldn’t complain that the U.K. are allowing used machinery to move between two of its regions when the machines have been washed but some little specs of soil may remain?
I think it poses interesting questions.

The UK have unilaterally decided to ignore an agreement they just signed up to (and boasted about how great it was).....you're suggesting that if the EU respond to this, they are being petty and demonstrating that they don't care about NI.....but seem to ignore how petty it was of the UK to make this decision (and announce it for cheap political capital) when an extension was already being discussed with the EU through the proper channels......or how agreeing to it in the first place if it is so egregious a demand would demonstrate precisely how important the UK government consider NI.

The mental gymnastics you need to pull to simultaneously use this to criticise the EU (the reactionary party in the dispute) and to excuse the UK of all responsibility (the instigatory party) is mind boggling.

The specific nature of what part of the agreement the UK have chosen to ignore is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that they agreed to these terms they are choosing to ignore, and they are leaving their reputation in tatters on the international stage by demonstrating that they cannot be trusted to keep their word.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's all a ruse and the Unionists will once again be shafted when they get the mileage out of this distraction. The distraction being keeping the gullible believing that Britain is at war with the badboy EU.

Watch the British row back from this position quietly.

You could be right. Same way as the ira rowed back from their brits our demand

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Are you suggesting it would be petty to respond to a country intentionally and unilaterally flouting an agreement they came to only a few weeks ago?!

It takes a very peculiar mindset for one to gloat that their government can't be trusted to uphold their international agreements....

It's all a ruse and the Unionists will once again be shafted when they get the mileage out of this distraction. The distraction being keeping the gullible believing that Britain is at war with the badboy EU.

Watch the British row back from this position quietly.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think BoJo and Frost's 'wonderful' deal should not be ratified until the British learn to behave themselves.

In fact there's a part of me that wants a complete breakdown in EU/UK relations and for Britain to suffer the consequences of the DUP/Tory Brexit.

I never thought we would agree on anything Tom, but there is part of me also wants a complete breakdown and a no deal

We are both probably cutting off our noses to spite our faces as NI would lose its advantageous position and Roi would be screwed

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Are you suggesting it would be petty to respond to a country intentionally and unilaterally flouting an agreement they came to only a few weeks ago?!

It takes a very peculiar mindset for one to gloat that their government can't be trusted to uphold their international agreements....

Surely they wouldn’t complain that the U.K. are allowing used machinery to move between two of its regions when the machines have been washed but some little specs of soil may remain?
I think it poses interesting questions.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Where now.

I think BoJo and Frost's 'wonderful' deal should not be ratified until the British learn to behave themselves.

In fact there's a part of me that wants a complete breakdown in EU/UK relations and for Britain to suffer the consequences of the DUP/Tory Brexit.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56294309

Oh dear! More sacrosanct EU rules broken lol. Where now.
The question is, how petty will the Eu be? An interesting test as to whether they care about ni or not - and I don’t know the answer.

Are you suggesting it would be petty to respond to a country intentionally and unilaterally flouting an agreement they came to only a few weeks ago?!

It takes a very peculiar mindset for one to gloat that their government can't be trusted to uphold their international agreements....

briany

jh79 wrote: »

It was the biggest concern of the cohort willing to vote yes.

Strange question, as the mirror image of the IRA, the intention would be to prevent a change in sovereignty.

In the event that a majority of the NI electorate voted to join with the Republic, fighting against a change in sovereignty is the one thing that would be the stupidest to do because they'd be fighting against a democratic decision. If you must undertake a campaign of violence, at least do it over things that are justifiably unfair and that have gone beyond peaceful negotiation. So, they could certainly be unhappy about a UI, but to fight against that core principle, in the event it was enacted democratically, would just further isolate those groups.

downcow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56294309

Oh dear! More sacrosanct EU rules broken lol. Where now.
The question is, how petty will the Eu be? An interesting test as to whether they care about ni or not - and I don’t know the answer.

chrisd2019

Brexit as implemented = UI QED

downcow

maccored wrote: »

i very much doubt they'd get british army support this time round (though you'd never know) so they'd probably kill more of themselves than anyone else. besides, the UDA and the UVF would be too out of it, the druggies.

.....the implication is that the ira were more honourable. Is that your position?

maccored

briany wrote: »

Renewed violence would be a big concern because groups like the UVF and UDA would kick off big-style.

i very much doubt they'd get british army support this time round (though you'd never know) so they'd probably kill more of themselves than anyone else. besides, the UDA and the UVF would be too out of it, the druggies.

downcow

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

De angles. Haha. Are you really that stupid, or just pretending to be?

Lol. 1/10 for effort. Up there with de angles.

No idea what this means

[Deleted User]

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

For what exactly?

It was the biggest concern of the cohort willing to vote yes.

Strange question, as the mirror image of the IRA, the intention would be to prevent a change in sovereignty.