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The eBike thread

unkel

A quick look seems that this doesn't really seem to fit in the cycling forum. So starting a thread here about all things eBike

I'll get the ball rolling. I have zero experience with eBikes. But I was going to build myself a battery anyway, for various reasons (like in bringing with me in my EV as a "petrol can")

I'm going to buy a solderless kit to make the battery (with 18650 cells I have removed from dead / old laptop batteries). This kit cah handle 20A max, and I would like the battery pack to produce 1kW constant. P=V*I so 1000W = 50V * 20A

This dictates that my battery needs to be nominal 48V (was thinking of making a 24V battery pack, but that won't be able to charge my car)

A quick browse on eBay and Amazon shows that you could buy a powerful 1000W bike conversion kit with everything needed except the battery for about GBP120 (a bit more from Amazon but peace of mind)

What to buy though, front wheel or rear wheel kit? Pros and cons? Any other advice?

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gman2k

Thargor wrote: »

When you fit kits like this:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

What does the chain actually attach to at the back? Do you remove the cassette from the original non electric rear wheel and bolt it to the side of the motor or is there already a cassette there on the motor or what?

I've watched 10 videos now and I still can't get an answer to this, it's the bit they always skip, the chain just magically seems to be attached at the end but attached to what? Is the rear derailleur obsolete? No changing rear gears? Why do they never mention having to adjust it?

It says in the description it takes a 6,7,8 or 9 speed "freewheel". The pictures in the video is clearly with a rear derailleur.

[Deleted User]

Thargor wrote: »

When you fit kits like this:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

What does the chain actually attach to at the back? Do you remove the cassette from the original non electric rear wheel and bolt it to the side of the motor or is there already a cassette there on the motor or what?

I've watched 10 videos now and I still can't get an answer to this, it's the bit they always skip, the chain just magically seems to be attached at the end but attached to what? Is the rear derailleur obsolete? No changing rear gears? Why do they never mention having to adjust it?

As Unkel pointed out, that's a direct drive motor and that's fine and all, they're ultra reliable and should last forever as there's no moving parts but as it's direct drive it will be an absolute b1tch to pedal without motor due to drag from the motor when there's no power to the motor, it will feel like you're pulling a trailer.

A geared hub is much better if you like to pedal at all and just use the motor for boost, they're more efficient too, Bafang also make Geared hubs.

I would always recommend the MAC hub motors from em3ev.com but he doesn't seem to sell them any more.

Joe1919

Thargor wrote: »

When you fit kits like this:

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-with-36v12-5ah-battery?variant=34181258936455

What does the chain actually attach to at the back? Do you remove the cassette.....

You are looking at the freewheel kit. If your bike has a cassette, you need this cassette version instead below and fit your existing cassette to new wheel.
By the way, I had to file my dropouts a few mm deeper to get wheel to fit snugly as axle is bigger and allow room for the anti rotation washer tab.

https://yosepower.com/collections/conversion-kit-with-battery/products/36v-350w-rear-motor-kit-for-cassette-with-36v12-5ah-battery

Thargor

But every bike has a cassette? Now Im even more confused, are there any of the non-direct drive geared hubs on this page then?

https://yosepower.com/collections/e-bike-conversion-kit

[Deleted User]

That motor in the link you posted takes a cassette, you can see the spline which it connects to.

That motor with 35 Nm will be pretty gutless.

[Deleted User]

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

Thargor

Deleted User wrote: »

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

Thanks, I still dont understand what the chain is connected to on those geared hubs though, and if the rear derailleur becomes obsolete? So Ill just be left with the 3 gears on my front chainring?

graememk

Deleted User wrote: »

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

When buying from the uk now you shouldn't pay UK VAT. If made in the UK there should be no duty either

Joe1919

Thargor wrote: »

But every bike has a cassette? Now Im even more confused,

You need to know your cassette/freehub from your 'freewheels'.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

gomamochi1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/category/uid-5

Check these out, though U.K company probably hit by import duties + 21% VAT ? Damn Brexit!

Are these not just the standard aliexpress kits that are being sold on ebay?

Thargor

Joe1919 wrote: »

You need to know your cassette/freehub from your 'freewheels'.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

Okay so there is a cog on the sides of the geared motor that the chain loops around? And I assume the derailleur just functions as something to keep the chain under tension then, you dont have any gears on the back anymore?

Theres an unofficial rule on the cycling forum that if you take a picture of a bike it should be from the side that shows the full drivetrain, I wish ebike kit vendors would adopt this rule...

Joe1919

Thargor wrote: »

Okay so there is a cog on the sides of the geared motor that the chain loops around? And I assume the derailleur just functions as something to keep the chain under tension then, you dont have any gears on the back anymore?
.

No.
There are two versions of rear hub motors. The first version has a threaded flange and you thread off your existing 6/7 speed freewheel from your existing wheel with a special tool (was supplied with my kit) and refit it onto the new electric wheel.

The second version(which is your case I think) has splines on the freehub and you remove the locking ring that holds the cassette on your existing wheel and refit the cassette by sliding in on the new electric wheel.

You may have to adjust/fine tune the derailleur stop screws and indexing on your derailleur but your bike gears works as it normally does.

The fact that the motor is a 'geared' motor has nothing to do with this. The 'gears' in this case refer to nylon planetary gears on a clutch that are inside the motor and make the motor more efficient at slower speeds and also make it easier to pedal the bike if you run out of battery.

Thargor

Deleted User wrote: »

As Unkel pointed out, that's a direct drive motor and that's fine and all, they're ultra reliable and should last forever as there's no moving parts but as it's direct drive it will be an absolute b1tch to pedal without motor due to drag from the motor when there's no power to the motor, it will feel like you're pulling a trailer.

A geared hub is much better if you like to pedal at all and just use the motor for boost, they're more efficient too, Bafang also make Geared hubs.

I would always recommend the MAC hub motors from em3ev.com but he doesn't seem to sell them any more.

How are you telling the difference there? I posted it as an example of a geared hub motor but its direct drive?

Thargor

Joe1919 wrote: »

No.
There are two versions of rear hub motors. The first version has a threaded flange and you thread off your existing 6/7 speed freewheel from your existing wheel with a special tool (was supplied with my kit) and refit it onto the new electric wheel.

The second version(which is your case I think) has splines on the freehub and you remove the locking ring that holds the cassette on your existing wheel and refit the cassette by sliding in on the new electric wheel.

You may have to adjust/fine tune the derailleur stop screws and indexing on your derailleur but your bike gears works as it normally does.

The fact that the motor is a 'geared' motor has nothing to do with this. The 'gears' in this case refer to nylon planetary gears on a clutch that are inside the motor and make the motor more efficient at slower speeds and also make it easier to pedal the bike if you run out of battery.

Okay thanks for the explanation.

jc bamford

Mousewar wrote: »

Kuma just took 600 quid off the bike so I'm agonna go for it.

Just wondering if you got the Kuma and how it worked out. I am looking at the R1 myself but the the battery looks a bit small at 8.7 AH

Mousewar

jc bamford wrote: »

Just wondering if you got the Kuma and how it worked out. I am looking at the R1 myself but the the battery looks a bit small at 8.7 AH

Still waiting as the bike to work scheme seems to take forever.
You can do test rides at their place in blanchardstown. Worth a visit.

jc bamford

Thanks for getting back.
I am afraid Blanchardstown is out of bounds for me until after the lockdown.
There is lad on Adverts selling new e bikes for €750. They look OK. I am not able to post a link.
Brand new electric bike

Liquidation sale price €750 - rrp €1499

250w motor
11. 8ah battery
25km/hr - we have code to de-restrict to 35km/hr
80km range

Brand new in box - can test drive in kilcock
I wonder if anybody knows what they are like

Mousewar

Out of bounds for me too. I could care less.
You'd have to post a link to adverts and someone here could have a look.

jc bamford

https://www.adverts.ie/electric-folding-bikes/city-hybrid-electric-bike-brand-new-stock/22937717
This is the link, I hope it works

Skill Magill

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I'm a Brompton Electric user. Very impressed so far. Heavy but expected that. Zips along nicely (urban user).

How do you find the range / battery? If I have mine on 3 it runs out quite quickly,
doubt I'd get 20km on that setting (have yet to do a proper test to how far I actually go)

[Deleted User]

jc bamford wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/electric-folding-bikes/city-hybrid-electric-bike-brand-new-stock/22937717
This is the link, I hope it works

On Irish roads do you really not want at least front shocks ? then again they do add to weight.

This is a rear hub motor and I have no specs to see if this is a geared or direct drive hub, direct drive hubs are fine if you don't want to pedal but they are an absolute b1tch to pedal without power, it can feel like you're pulling 2 Children in a trailer behind you.

Geared hubs are much better because they have a clutch which disconnects the motor entirely from the wheel which means you can freewheel without any drag so they're good for when you want to actually pedal.

Geared hubs also have more torque and better efficiency.

There's really no way to tell how this bike will perform without testing it out.

Skill Magill

Can anybody recommend an app or is there an electric bike app with GPS and maybe a battery level on it too?
A dedicated garmin maybe?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

There's really no way to tell how this bike will perform without testing it out.

I'd say you can make a good guess. It's a road legal eBike, so slow and lacking power, with what clearly looks like a rear hub motor to me. Chinese, so the the electric bits will be fine, but the bike itself and its mechanicals will be very much bottom of the heap

At €750 it's very cheap, but in this case you get what you pay for. Also the sales channel (adverts.ie) does not give much hope about the bike being under warranty if anything goes wrong

Personally, I'd rather buy a good quality second hand bike and convert it with a more powerful kit, for less total spent, but if your budget is tight and that's not your thing (and you really do not want to give it a go, despite of this thread and the help you will get online), this might be an option

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

I'd say you can make a good guess. It's a road legal eBike, so slow and lacking power, with what clearly looks like a rear hub motor to me. Chinese, so the the electric bits will be fine, but the bike itself and its mechanicals will be very much bottom of the heap

At €750 it's very cheap, but in this case you get what you pay for. Also the sales channel (adverts.ie) does not give much hope about the bike being under warranty if anything goes wrong

Personally, I'd rather buy a good quality second hand bike and convert it with a more powerful kit, for less total spent, but if your budget is tight and that's not your thing (and you really do not want to give it a go, despite of this thread and the help you will get online), this might be an option

Conversion is the way to go but not everyone has the knowledge to do this or are bothered.

The question is if it's a DD or geared hub ?, I can't say but you should know when it's powered up, you can tell the different noise a DD and Hub motor make.

Top speed is limited but it doesn't tell us how much power it actually has because I highly doubt any ebike is actually limited to 250 watts.

unkel

DD is physically bigger. No way that's a DD in that picture. And while most motors of road legal ebikes can do an awful lot more than 250W, their controllers are usually restricted to 7A (for a 36V setup), giving 250W max output of the system. I've seen many of them.

Feck out the controller and replace it with a €15 30A from China and then you're talking (over a kW)

[Deleted User]

unkel wrote: »

DD is physically bigger. No way that's a DD in that picture. And while most motors of road legal ebikes can do an awful lot more than 250W, their controllers are usually restricted to 7A (for a 36V setup), giving 250W max output of the system. I've seen many of them.

Feck out the controller and replace it with a €15 30A from China and then you're talking (over a kW)

That motor in the picture looks big enough for it to be a DD. I was running 5 Kw through something similar

, I did rewire the phase wires though.

Any real 250 watt ebike is going to be crap but most of them are more than 250 watts at least the Bosch is and I'm pretty sure any ebike with more than 50 Nm of torque is well more than 250 watts.

I remember seeing a youtube of the early 50 nm Bosch motor the lad had a watt meter and it was pulling over 500 w from the battery.

mailforkev

Lovely day here today so went for a spin down to the sea. I’ve only put 120kms on it so far thanks to lockdown but it’s all good so far. It gets a good few admiring glances (deffo the bike rather than me!).

unkel

Looks great!

[Deleted User]

Yeah it's an eye catcher alright. :-)

Magzire

Is there any shops in dublin area that will upgrade your current bike into a ebike?