How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow wrote: »

When living in a greenhouse.........
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/irish-brands-not-made-in-ireland-1785833-Nov2014/%3famp=1

:D:D Thought you had a sense of humour?

None of those products say they are 'Irish' by the way. Try again.

British Carrots..from Spain.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

These carrots have every right to identify as British if they wish.

When living in a greenhouse.........
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/irish-brands-not-made-in-ireland-1785833-Nov2014/%3famp=1

These carrots have every right to identify as British if they wish.

EvoCKUcXMAAsMXi?format=jpg&name=medium

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Nothing can be read into that. Boris will boast about anything and proclaim his greatness about anything. If he took a dump he could trumpet how it was a great dump for Britain, what a great journey it was off on in the sewers of the UK, and how superbly improved was the aroma of the No.10 lavatory.

I don't disagree with much of this in fairness. The question has to be asked why NI Unionists continue to put faith in him and his party to be anything but self serving though.

Natterjack from Kerry

Fionn1952 wrote: »

The UK have signed a deal, a deal so great that Boris was boasting about it,

Nothing can be read into that. Boris will boast about anything and proclaim his greatness about anything. If he took a dump he could trumpet how it was a great dump for Britain, what a great journey it was off on in the sewers of the UK, and how superbly improved was the aroma of the No.10 lavatory.

downcow wrote: »

Was that rant a yes or a no ?

Quite typical of you to ask a question and moan when you get an answer you don't like. You'll note I don't hide behind vagueness, if I make a prediction it includes actual details; I could've just posted, 'no' in response but I thought only an idiot would make vague nonsensical predictions with no details or explanation as to why it was significant.

Fionn1952 wrote: »

The UK have signed a deal, a deal so great that Boris was boasting about it, the Unionist parties were talking about how great it was and how it had taken Unification off the table for generations.

While it is questionable why anyone would want to escape from an agreement they were boasting about a few weeks ago, should they wish to abdicate their responsibilities agreed in that deal, they will face penalties until they implement what they agreed to (and I emphasise that they WILL implement it eventually, along with damaging their reputation for integrity and trustworthiness on an international basis that goes beyond the EU).

Ultimately, once more Britain will decide that bending NI Unionists over is preferable to suffering the alternative. A few Billy big balls moments for the local press and reality will set in. While backing out of the deal would certainly impact the EU (and particularly Ireland), it pales in comparison to how it would impact Britain. Given that they would also have proven themselves to be unreliable and untrustworthy with their word essentially counting for nothing, this would be even more damaging than leaving with no deal in the first place.

Was that rant a yes or a no ?

downcow wrote: »

So, are the Eu bluffing or could we be heading for a ‘no deal’ after all?

The UK have signed a deal, a deal so great that Boris was boasting about it, the Unionist parties were talking about how great it was and how it had taken Unification off the table for generations.

While it is questionable why anyone would want to escape from an agreement they were boasting about a few weeks ago, should they wish to abdicate their responsibilities agreed in that deal, they will face penalties until they implement what they agreed to (and I emphasise that they WILL implement it eventually, along with damaging their reputation for integrity and trustworthiness on an international basis that goes beyond the EU).

Ultimately, once more Britain will decide that bending NI Unionists over is preferable to suffering the alternative. A few Billy big balls moments for the local press and reality will set in. While backing out of the deal would certainly impact the EU (and particularly Ireland), it pales in comparison to how it would impact Britain. Given that they would also have proven themselves to be unreliable and untrustworthy with their word essentially counting for nothing, this would be even more damaging than leaving with no deal in the first place.

So, are the Eu bluffing or could we be heading for a ‘no deal’ after all?

Natterjack from Kerry

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I feel it's like an alcoholic that has to hit rock-bottom before it can begin to sort itself out.

Apt analogy for the IRA/SF. It went on a terrorism binge, ended up disfunctional and riddled with internal strife and informers, decided life might be better without it, and while its always there in the background, its a question of take one day at a time without committing a crime as a recovering terrorist organisation.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He's spinning around like one.

For the record I mean the Brexit ultras. A massive slowdown at Dover would bring the Tories to their senses fairly quick.

Blanco100

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see just how much economic harm the Tories are willing to inflict on Britain because of 'Irish' Unionism.

Good shout, i'd imagine they will swiftly draw a line under it.

Unfortunately the DUP and Sinn Fein getting so many votes is reflective of the electorate in Nothern Ireland more than anything else.

The DUP will blow whatever way the senior loyalist paramilitaries direct them, its only their endorsement that sees them gain such a high percentage of the vote. Pandering to these goons (and i'm taking both sides here) is the main reason both of these parties get into power each time.

Until the electorate become a little less partisan/sectarian then nothing will change. You would imagine people would have some cop on and start voting on issues rather than green or orange.

BonnieSituation

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So we're back to it being Republicans fault that the Loyalists are threatening violence again?

When are Loyalists going to be responsible for their own actions?!

I'm assuming when the all powerful Republicans let them?

I didn't know that the LCC had to be handheld in every way.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I feel it's like an alcoholic that has to hit rock-bottom before it can began to sort itself out.

He's spinning around like one.

downcow wrote: »

A nice shimmy there Francie, but I did not say he was threatening anyone, I said he was using the threat of violence from others to increase his bargaining stance. Exactly what a very small number of Unionist politicians seem to be embarking upon this morning.
It's a pity you can only see the fault in others. You will note I see the fault both sides

He was like the PSNI, The EU and many other 'concerned' about the possibility of violence.
Were the PSNI 'using the threat'?

The ridiculousness of your argument has been exposed again and again but still you persist.

Junkyard Tom

I feel it's like an alcoholic that has to hit rock-bottom before it can begin to sort itself out.

downcow wrote: »

I think you guys want me to disagree with you because you are uncomfortable with what your government has instigated.

I can read the subtext of the messages coming from Unionist politicians and loyalist parliamentary groups, and I do not deny them. But you cannot have it both ways. You guys are incomplete denial about what your politicians instigated and the lessons that they taught the unionist community.

Something I find very interesting is that when Republicans worked with the RUC, they were agents. But when loyalists work with the RUC it was collusion.

Now when the Republic of Ireland talks about potential violence, it is simply raising its concerns. When Unionists talk about potential violence, they are threatening it.

I sincerely hope violence does not break out, and if it does, I sincerely hope that ordinary nationalists do not bear the brunt of the Republic of Ireland using our conflict, and walking all over the Belfast agreement, to look after their own interests.
I really hope we are not sucked into another pointless sectarian tit-for-tat over something that was foisted upon us by an unreasonable European Union egged on by ROI

More rubbish.

What instigated ALL of this is those who wanted to and did Brexit. And the fools who swallowed the line that things would remain the same.

They won't and they were never going to stay the same.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He was informing those that didn't know what our concerns were. He was not threatening anyone.
He did not threaten to remove support for the GFA and he did not invent threats, meet with paramilitaries or daub graffitti either. STOP being ridiculous.

A nice shimmy there Francie, but I did not say he was threatening anyone, I said he was using the threat of violence from others to increase his bargaining stance. Exactly what a very small number of Unionist politicians seem to be embarking upon this morning.
It's a pity you can only see the fault in others. You will note I see the fault both sides

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe they mean they 'cannot guarantee their peacefulness'? Which apparently isn't a threat either.

I think you guys want me to disagree with you because you are uncomfortable with what your government has instigated.

I can read the subtext of the messages coming from Unionist politicians and loyalist parliamentary groups, and I do not deny them. But you cannot have it both ways. You guys are incomplete denial about what your politicians instigated and the lessons that they taught the unionist community.

Something I find very interesting is that when Republicans worked with the RUC, they were agents. But when loyalists work with the RUC it was collusion.

Now when the Republic of Ireland talks about potential violence, it is simply raising its concerns. When Unionists talk about potential violence, they are threatening it.

I sincerely hope violence does not break out, and if it does, I sincerely hope that ordinary nationalists do not bear the brunt of the Republic of Ireland using our conflict, and walking all over the Belfast agreement, to look after their own interests.
I really hope we are not sucked into another pointless sectarian tit-for-tat over something that was foisted upon us by an unreasonable European Union egged on by ROI

downcow wrote: »

......and it is very clear to all what your Prime Minister meant when he held up photos of bombed custom posts.

I did say this was the inevitable outcome of two years of nationalist and republican politicians and the Republic of Ireland politicians using the threat of violence to get their way

So we're back to it being Republicans fault that the Loyalists are threatening violence again?

When are Loyalists going to be responsible for their own actions?!

downcow wrote: »

......and it is very clear to all what your Prime Minister meant when he held up photos of bombed custom posts.

I did say this was the inevitable outcome of two years of nationalist and republican politicians and the Republic of Ireland politicians using the threat of violence to get their way

He was informing those that didn't know what our concerns were. He was not threatening anyone.
He did not threaten to remove support for the GFA and he did not invent threats, meet with paramilitaries or daub graffitti either. STOP being ridiculous.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have done the stock Unionist thing...claimed that Dublin 'threatened violence'...stop trying to pretend you didn't.

If Loyalist paramilitary organisations are withdrawing support for the GFA they are reverting to what they were before that agreement. Don't add disingenuousness to the lying about what you said about 'threats'.\

It is very clear to all what Loyalists mean by that move.

......and it is very clear to all what your Prime Minister meant when he held up photos of bombed custom posts.

I did say this was the inevitable outcome of two years of nationalist and republican politicians and the Republic of Ireland politicians using the threat of violence to get their way

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

'The LCC leadership is determined that unionist opposition to the Protocol should be peaceful and democratic. However, please do not underestimate the strength of feeling on this issue right across the unionist family.'

I interpret that as threatening violence.

Maybe they mean they 'cannot guarantee their peacefulness'? Which apparently isn't a threat either.

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

'The LCC leadership is determined that unionist opposition to the Protocol should be peaceful and democratic. However, please do not underestimate the strength of feeling on this issue right across the unionist family.'

I interpret that as threatening violence.

.....and i interpret your PM holding up photos of bombed customs posts at EU meetings, as him using the threat of violence. So I am not really surprised that a paramilitary group reckon its ok for them to highlight their concerns that violence could break out

downcow wrote: »

twisting again Francie.
I said unionist leaders expressing concerns about paramilitaries returning to violence is exactly what ROI have been doing for 2 years.

I am not aware of any paramilitaries threatening violence - please enlighten us?

You have done the stock Unionist thing...claimed that Dublin 'threatened violence'...stop trying to pretend you didn't.

If Loyalist paramilitary organisations are withdrawing support for the GFA they are reverting to what they were before that agreement. Don't add disingenuousness to the lying about what you said about 'threats'.\

It is very clear to all what Loyalists mean by that move.

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

I am not aware of any paramilitaries threatening violence - please enlighten us?

'The LCC leadership is determined that unionist opposition to the Protocol should be peaceful and democratic. However, please do not underestimate the strength of feeling on this issue right across the unionist family.'

I interpret that as threatening violence.

Junkyard Tom

It'll be interesting to see just how much economic harm the Tories are willing to inflict on Britain because of 'Irish' Unionism.

I see the Shinners have nothing better to waste there time at
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/unnamed-sinn-fein-in-court-challenge-to-dup-ministers-decision-to-halt-work-on-border-control-posts-3153645